My partner places a different importance on him being close to my family than I do and I don't know how to proceed

[AlertOP]

30F, 33M. We have been together for three years and are loosely planning to get married.

He is seemingly obsessed with the idea of being "fully integrated" into my family as a condition for us moving forward in our relationship. I don't fully understand what this means but I have gathered that he feels that I separate him from my family in a way that he finds unacceptable. I've tried to meet his needs but keep missing the mark.

A brief backstory on my family: it is just me, my mom, and my sister. We all survived and escaped from an abusive patriarch and as a result are pretty close. I live a long drive away from them so only get to see them 1-2 times per year. The holidays especially are a precious time for me with them where we have a lot of traditions and it's always a super rejuvenating time of year for me.

My partner does not really like my mother because she is religious and she has expressed that she's not wild about me dating a non-religious man. I've set boundaries with her on this, and I understand why that's frustrating for him.

Here's a list of things that have happened:

1. The first year we were dating, we had been official for about 7 months when he wanted to come to my family's for Thanksgiving (we are American). I felt this was too soon to be honest but agreed. I did Christmas alone with them that year.

2. The next year, we did Thanksgiving with his family (who live locally). I then decided that I wanted to go do Christmas with my family alone again, which was a huge conflict between us. He was upset that I wanted to go alone. I understand his feeling. I wanted to go alone because I rarely get to see them and the "vibe" of being with just my family is special to me. He finally agreed that he would understand me going alone if I told my family to expect that this would be the last time they would have me alone for the holidays. In retrospect, I don't know that I agree with this. Personally, I would be fine if we always split to our nuclear families for the holidays (we don't and won't have kids) but I also understand that as your partner becomes your closer family it's typical to act as a unit so I've sort of just accepted that.

3. This year, I wasn't able to go home for the holidays due to work. My partner got super upset (bewildering frankly) when I wanted to tell my family alone that I wasn't going to be able to come home. I was going to be visiting them at the time (happenstance close proximity) and he wanted me to set up a phone call so that he could be a part of that news breaking and wasn't happy when I said I'd rather just talk to them alone so it can come up organically.

4. For Christmas this year, we planned for my family to come visit (This didn't happen due to an unrelated unexpected event). He felt very strongly that our families needed to spend a lot of time together and insisted that the whole day be our families together - one side visiting at our house during the day and then going to his other side's for dinner. This after we had also set up a gathering earlier in the week for them to meet. I tried to suggest that we do my family's usual Christmas dinner at our house and he go see his family without us, but that wasn't acceptable to him.

5. My sister and I every couple of years take a specific trip together. My partner has said a couple of times that he wants/plans to go on this trip with us the next time. I haven't broached this with him yet but I know me not wanting him to go is going to be another case of him not feeling "integrated".

I feel of two minds on this - on the one hand, I recognize that I value alone time with my family more than your average person and I definitely can see how feeling separated from your partner's family could be hurtful. At the same time, I start to feel like him wanting to be "integrated" is just him not wanting me to have any distinct relationship with my family from him. What are your thoughts?

No, I had lived in this town for 4-5 years before we met. He had just moved back about 6 months before to be closer to his family.

I described feeling emotionally unsafe (words that I have used to my partner before) and he asked me to clarify that I didn't mean abusive behaviors like yelling, name calling, physical violence, etc (which is true that he does not do these things). I clarified happily. When we got off the call he was quite upset that I had used the phrase "I was feeling emotionally unsafe" without automatically explaining further because he felt it painted him as abusive.

Why would this be a red flag? If you describe your partner as emotionally unsafe to a therapist, without clarifying what it means - it can be presumed to be abusive in horrible ways. At therapy it's good to be both honest but also fair, and clarifications are important. I think if you see everything he does a red flag - therapy won't work because that would mean you're going in already with the pre conceived notion it's all his fault. From what you've described, the relationship is dead in the water and maybe ending it is the best thing.

They are American. Thanksgiving is far more significant and they do spend that time together with family.
I think spending Christmas apart is no big deal unlike in the UK where Christmas is the big event

Why on earth would he want to gate crash the trip with your sister?!
he is trying to undermine the special relationships you have in your family and push himself in between you all, I’d tell
him it’s over.

You sound like an intelligent woman who has serious doubts about your partner, if I had serious doubts about any partner I would trust my instincts and probably just leave but only you can decide whether that would be the right thing to do or not

I also think that if myself and my partner had to go to couples therapy in the first few years of our relationship it’s not an especially good sign for the future but I personally am not interested in relationships that take such hard work, I just don’t see the point unless there are children involved and you are really trying to make it work

He's policing your words in therapy.

Let that sink in.

He doesn't want you communicating freely and privately with your family.

You can't even use your own word choice in a therapy session.

Are you familiar with the box analogy of emotional abuse?

If you and now your family don't meet his unreasonable expectations, you're going to make yourself smaller to try to make things work. But the box keeps shrinking.

His demands that he be "completely integrated" into your family are unrealistic and controlling.

Using feeling emotionally unsafe to a licensed therapist would show them you need to expand on that and explore it.

You’ve escaped one abusive patriarch and you’ve ended up with a different one…

LTB

Just seen this. Had you also explained what you mean by this to the therapist before? Because otherwise how would they know what you have discussed with your partner before the session and will make their own presumptions about it?

If kids are not and will not be part of your future, then I think you can decide (ideally together) what’s the rules of your relationship are. And you are two separate individuals with different values and beliefs.

so if you want to stay together you have to find a compromise of some sort , which basically means you both have to be willing to lose something, to give up something for the greater good of a calm relationship.

or you split, not because either of you are wrong, but because you are simply incompatible in this respect. And it as clearly to important for each of you to compromise on.

ps he also sounds pretty controlling and you sound afraid of him, this is not a good relationship.

He sounds suffocating but you don’t sound like you like him enough to want him involved with key aspects of your life

I see both sides tbh. You do seem to be keeping them separate. The idea of doi h Christmas separate from your husband is insane to me. He wants you to consider him to be family which is pretty normal in a marriage.

I would split up from him because of his behaviour towards you. Do not marry this man!.

Your boundaries here, already skewed by your dad’s abuse of your mum, sister and you, are being further eroded by this man now.

I would be having therapy on your own and not with him. It’s never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. Controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour.

In the context of op only seeing her family once or twice a year, I don't think it's particularly odd to want that time to be just them 'though.

Especially when her mum and sister don't have partners.

It's not like she sees them all the time.

I would not want to have children with this man.
I can only imagine that life with his family would dominate their time.
He sounds suffocating and you sound far too intelligent to not know that he is controlling.

I'm sorry OP, this actually makes me feel afraid for you.

As another PP said I wonder if you would be more likely to want to spend Christmas with your OH and your family if your relationship was different.

It's not unreasonable for him to want to spend Christmas with you but it is unreasonable for him to force you! The couples counselling is scary! He should be listening to what you say, responding with empathy etc not policing you.

I agree with all PPs who have said LTB. You are in a relationship with someone like your Dad :(

Even putting aside some of the more intense behaviour like his demands to be included in telephone calls with you mum and sister and trips that you and your sister take. What strikes me is just how unsuited you are, 3 years in and you are having couples counselling. Relationships really shouldn't be this hard, and this is before marriage or children

I think you need to trust your gut on this, he is not the right partner for you. You will keep compromising to make him happy and it will cut away from your happiness making you resentful of him and his demands.

He sometimes gets a little touchy about me hanging out with friends and saying he can't come
This would be enough for me to end it, he expects to be invited out with you and your friends?
This is only going to get worse.

Yes, it starts with making you uncomfortable/guilty about meeting your mates on your own, by pushing a narrative of him being excluded so he has to be able to listen in on conversations, so he has to attend everything with you, and gradually it snowballs into more things you can't do on your own, more limits on what you can do without "hurting" him or there being a row.

Christmas is its own separate issue.

You said your partner doesn’t like your mum. Your mum probably knows that. Despite that he thinks he should be allowed to invite himself to her home and be made welcome. Is he always so two faced? Cheeky bastard.

What he’s proposing is you have no contact at all with your family without him being present. All of it is controlling especially the calls. How are you listening to his bullshit about integrating with a straight face? You’re not married and even if you were, it’s weird of him to insist on intruding into your time with your sister. Why does he think he has the right to listen to you and your sister’s conversations? He’s bulldozing you.

I would dump him. You need to have an honest conversation with your family because I bet they’ve noticed his controlling behaviours.

Do NOT marry this man. The fact that he's funny about you going out with your friends too, REEKS of control issues.

I don't think you are right for each other. It sounds like he wants a proper partnership where you see him as part of your family, whereas it sounds more like you just want him as a boyfriend and not part of your family.

Neither of you is wrong to want what you want, but those two different "wants" are not at all compatible.

Not many people are ok with being picked up and put down like that by their apparent partner.

"At the same time, I start to feel like him wanting to be "integrated" is just him not wanting me to have any distinct relationship with my family from him. What are your thoughts?"

This really jumped out at me in your op. Abusive men try to isolate you from support networks. This might explain why he's not so bother about you travelling for work as work won't be pointing out he's slowing taking control of your life.

I would also repeat the concerns others have raised about having counselling with someone who may be controlling. Your response to a comment on that said he was upset you felt emotionally unsafe? What are you supposed to feel guilty for how you feel? Not voice how you feel in case it upsets him? Won't be long before that extends to you having to watch your actions and who you socialise with for fear of upsetting him. That's controlling as much as screaming and shouting and physically intimidating you into submission. I note you made a comment there had been difficulties with you socialising with certain of your friends.

I think it's reasonable to want to spend the holidays together when you are a family unit if your own. But you don't have children don't plan on having children and are only 3 years in. He has a right to feel how he does but this is a lot of bother fairly early in when there are no children. If he's aware of your past he ought to be understanding that you may need longer before feeling comfortable integrating him into your minimal time with family. There are ways of expressing how you feel without trying to guilt a partner into changing. Your feelings are as valid as his and it sounds like only you are considering this fact.

I also agree with another poster that it's likely if you felt fully emotionally sad with him your wouldn't feel uncomfortable having him with you and your family for holidays. You would want to spend time with him.

Also concerned you are already worrying about your special trip with your sister. You already know he will be unhappy about it. So he's already got control over you. Can you see this? Will you cave and invite him or maybe just not do the trip? Effectively he removed your ability to have a frank and open conversation with a loving family member about your life without his moderation. He is slowly removing the opportunities for people to voice to you they see red flags isn't he? I have an amazing bond with my sister and if we had bi annually trips together it won't matter how much in love and committed I am to a partner it just won't be the same with a partner there. And if he can't see and support a need for you to have such a trip he is very bad for you!!

I also noted your comment that he doesn't really like your mother. If he's not a fan of her why is it so important to him he's there whenever you see or speak to her? Can he not see that you knowing he feels like this will change how comfortable you are around her with him present? What does he expect you to do with this information? See less if your mum or change how interactions with your mum go so as not to make him feel uncomfortable? How many threads have you read on here regarding in-laws? Most of us who are not keen on an in law would be very happy to not have to be included in every second out partner sees them....

Finally I just want to highlight planning not to have kids doesn't mean you won't have kids. Who is responsible for contraception? You or him? Do you live in a state where having your contraception fail would force you to have a child and be connected to this man regardless of your wishes? Even with the most lovely respectful man in the world if you personally do not want kids then you personally need to ensure your contraception is as good as it can be..... and no contraception is 100% unless you abstain.

My abusive ex wormed his way into my family and friends time, effectively took away all opportunity for them to warn me. He was also on such good behaviour around them so I was constantly told how lucky I was and how amazing he was. But he would tell me he had been insulted or was offended by small things later at home, made socialising with 'my' people awkward so it happened less and less. Does your partner ever sulk? I suspect you may say yes if you are feeling the need for couples counselling having not gone through infidelity or children or big things that bring an obvious need to work through problems. My ex slyly took the condom of and guilted me into keeping the pregnancy. As soon as I was past the point I could abort he completely morphed and got violent and clearly abusive. Looking back I can see the red flags but at the time I'd read the behaviour as him just loving and wanting to be with me. He wasn't my first abusive partner either. In the UK we have something called the freedom program that teaches about DV etc and doing that I learnt abusive men actually often seek out women who have been abused in the past. How quickly were you open about your history with this man? I now trust my gut, if something feels off I walk away. We don't need to justify ending a relationship. We don't need to be able to expressly point out examples of control or abuse to justify feeling uneasy. That's how they keep us in their power. If it doesn't feel good for you, you don't feel emotionally safe, you feel you are loosing things that are important to you all these things are more than enough reason to walk away.

I think he is coming across as suffocating because he is fighting for a place in your family. You do prioritise your “nuclear family” over him and he is feeling this. If you plan to marry him, you need to open your family up to include him.

I think a man wanting to be present at all times with your family and friends, is a huge red flag for future abuse. It is a common tactic by abusive men to try to ensure their partner has limited contact with others on her own and consequently limited/no opportunity to discuss him and the relationship without him present, which means others won’t be able to raise concerns.

But even if he’s not going to turn abusive, do you really want to be with someone who feels the need to be involved in every family and friend event for the rest of your life? I’d find it utterly suffocating. Everyone needs time alone and relationships with people (friends and family) outside their marriage.