My partner places a different importance on him being close to my family than I do and I don't know how to proceed

[AlertOP]

30F, 33M. We have been together for three years and are loosely planning to get married.

He is seemingly obsessed with the idea of being "fully integrated" into my family as a condition for us moving forward in our relationship. I don't fully understand what this means but I have gathered that he feels that I separate him from my family in a way that he finds unacceptable. I've tried to meet his needs but keep missing the mark.

A brief backstory on my family: it is just me, my mom, and my sister. We all survived and escaped from an abusive patriarch and as a result are pretty close. I live a long drive away from them so only get to see them 1-2 times per year. The holidays especially are a precious time for me with them where we have a lot of traditions and it's always a super rejuvenating time of year for me.

My partner does not really like my mother because she is religious and she has expressed that she's not wild about me dating a non-religious man. I've set boundaries with her on this, and I understand why that's frustrating for him.

Here's a list of things that have happened:

1. The first year we were dating, we had been official for about 7 months when he wanted to come to my family's for Thanksgiving (we are American). I felt this was too soon to be honest but agreed. I did Christmas alone with them that year.

2. The next year, we did Thanksgiving with his family (who live locally). I then decided that I wanted to go do Christmas with my family alone again, which was a huge conflict between us. He was upset that I wanted to go alone. I understand his feeling. I wanted to go alone because I rarely get to see them and the "vibe" of being with just my family is special to me. He finally agreed that he would understand me going alone if I told my family to expect that this would be the last time they would have me alone for the holidays. In retrospect, I don't know that I agree with this. Personally, I would be fine if we always split to our nuclear families for the holidays (we don't and won't have kids) but I also understand that as your partner becomes your closer family it's typical to act as a unit so I've sort of just accepted that.

3. This year, I wasn't able to go home for the holidays due to work. My partner got super upset (bewildering frankly) when I wanted to tell my family alone that I wasn't going to be able to come home. I was going to be visiting them at the time (happenstance close proximity) and he wanted me to set up a phone call so that he could be a part of that news breaking and wasn't happy when I said I'd rather just talk to them alone so it can come up organically.

4. For Christmas this year, we planned for my family to come visit (This didn't happen due to an unrelated unexpected event). He felt very strongly that our families needed to spend a lot of time together and insisted that the whole day be our families together - one side visiting at our house during the day and then going to his other side's for dinner. This after we had also set up a gathering earlier in the week for them to meet. I tried to suggest that we do my family's usual Christmas dinner at our house and he go see his family without us, but that wasn't acceptable to him.

5. My sister and I every couple of years take a specific trip together. My partner has said a couple of times that he wants/plans to go on this trip with us the next time. I haven't broached this with him yet but I know me not wanting him to go is going to be another case of him not feeling "integrated".

I feel of two minds on this - on the one hand, I recognize that I value alone time with my family more than your average person and I definitely can see how feeling separated from your partner's family could be hurtful. At the same time, I start to feel like him wanting to be "integrated" is just him not wanting me to have any distinct relationship with my family from him. What are your thoughts?

Why did he want to be part of the call when you were telling your family you couldn’t visit this year? That’s just odd, especially if he knew your family would be a bit disappointed, it’s almost like gloating in that scenario.

I understand him wanting to spend Christmas with you but the rest of it sounds controlling. Do your mum and sister want to spend time with his family? As for the holiday with your sister, he's said he plans to join you without even asking her? Absolutely not, I’d be having a firm chat about boundaries and he’s overstepping imo. I’d feel smothered in a relationship like this and there would be no ring going on my finger any time soon.

I think I have read the op a bit differently to others and I think I get where the partner is coming from. It sounds to me as if he wants people to generally see you as a couple and that you come as a pair. It would be quite unusual for DH and I to visit our parents or siblings without the other one. (They live some distance away so it does involve an overnight stay) and I think I would be upset too if I wasn't routinely included or invited, I think I would feel sidelined, (I don't know I'd feel like this because our families are welcoming of our spouses, my sils are fab and I would miss them if my dBs visited me without them)
We have visited independently of course, if one person has been away with work or a short notice medical thing or there's something going on but usually if I visit my parents he comes too and that is, in a nice way the expectation.
Is this how your DH expects things to be because that's how his family is?
I can also understand that for you the ties of your family are precious and you want to maintain that closeness. I don't think it is an either or, there is some middle ground but you will both need to compromise. As is ever the way in a strong relationship.

Exhausting.

For me this would be a deal breaker. If I decide at 8am this morning I want to see my sister, I don’t expect to need to have a heated debate with anyone about it. She’s available I’m available off we go. Getting home and the needing to deal with “moodiness” wouldn’t be for me.

I also never feel comfortable with “do everything together” so it would be another reason the relationship would be coming to an end.

Why isn't he putting his effort into understanding your feelings about your family dynamic, being responsive and respectful of this, and building natural connections with your family members? Many men would be doing this without giving it a second thought. You are only 3 years in, it takes time to build relationships with in-laws.

Instead you have a man here who is making demands that everyone makes things a certain way to match his own expectations with zero consideration of anyone else's feelings. This is an attitude common to someone who ends up being controlling/ abusive of their partner/children.

As outsiders it's screaming 'controlling' to us on here

You can't see that yet OP

But that's what's going on

This relationship does not bode well

He finally agreed that he would understand me going alone if I told my family to expect that this would be the last time they would have me alone for the holidays.
He has absolutely no right to give you orders like this. But I actually think it’s even worse that he “insisted” on being part of your phone call with your parents. That gave me a chill - I can imagine him being one of those partners who makes his wife go on speaker when she calls her friends, so she can’t have any private conversations without him.

He is definitely controlling and I’d be running a mile. I do find your wish to spend Christmases with your parents and without him odd, but that doesn’t excuse him controlling you.

You're not compatible on this point.
I'd stop trying to placate him and just be blunt - you don't want him crashing your trip with your sister and his 'integration' is not respecting your boundaries.
Either you both redraw your expectations (him more than you) and can do this without it being a big deal, I'd seriously reconsider this relationship having a future
He's very possessive and frankly smothering.

OP you're an adult

You should be able to see your family whenever and however you want

Without being told by your partner how you should be doing this or that he wants you to do it his way

Why? Because he wanted to make sure you weren’t blaming him

He's a one man red flag parade! Jesus.

It all sounds worrying. Maybe have a trial separation, counselling or go back to just dating for a while to give you time to organise your thoughts and emotions.

I absolutely understand the sacred time with close family. I love spending time just with my mum and my sister. We don't get to do it too often and it's not the same with others there.

I think it's just not going to work between you. He's possessive and you have (perhaps understandably) a particularly close relationship with your mum and sister. It's telling that you describe visiting them as 'home'. Surely your home is with your partner? Sounds like you'd choose them over him if it came to it - I'm alert to this as it's also how I feel about my DH - and I'm not sure that's the basis of a happy marriage.

Being part of the call is a message to OP’s parents, as well as to OP, that he’s in control of her now. They will see their daughter if and when he decides to allow it, and only if he’s present.

Proceed by breaking it off.

He is not the boss of your life.
Be happy, live free.

The insisting on being on the phone call, and the sister holiday things are odd and yes that feels controlling. But the wish to be part of your family for Christmas feels normal to me.

Christmas is 'family time' and by going away from him to your birth family you are indicating they are the 'real' family and he's just a boyfriend (which should be fine at first, but not long term).

-agree with this. If my OH seemed to not want me at any of his family gatherings, I’d be really hurt. And I want to bring him to mine - he’s my favourite person, I want him to be part of my bigger family. Over the past few years, have there been lots of other times when you’ve seen your family with him? Or is it mostly just Christmas and he’s not welcome?

If you know you don’t want him to be part of your family, seems to me you know you don’t want him in your life, not properly.

I wouldn’t want to marry someone who thought spending Christmas or Thanksgiving with me was optional. Fair enough after only dating for 7 months, but once you reach a certain point, you are your own family unit for holiday celebrations.

you should be able to spend time with your sister and mother without him though. You should be able to have conversations without him and travel together just your little group. Just don’t schedule those things on Christmas or other days when there is an expectation to be with immediate family.

Well you may have escaped from one bullying, controlling patriarch, but sounds to me like you lined yourself right up with another version of it.

I'd be looking hard at him before marriage. Do you want someone who wants to be there every single time you see your family and deny you any time to yourself with them? Why does he need this so much? To stop you discussing him with them?

Maybe look into some therapy for you where you can identify these traits in him (and you, for putting up with this). And see if this is right for you. Personally I'd be telling him to get real.

This bit jumped out at me -

We all survived and escaped from an abusive patriarch

sounds a bit like you found a new one, which makes sense, wools are attracted to people like their parents. (Generally speaking, don’t at me)

maybe some therapy for you to explore this?

@AlertOP I definitely dont see him as suffocating!! I do see that you are not wanting to integrate him into your family at all though!!! he has hardly met your family so they dont know him. it might have been just you, your mum and your sis for a long time but you now have a partner who will soon be your husband and possibly your sis might have a relationship with a future husband. will she behave the same as you?? you seem quite enmeshed with your family!!!

💯 - sometimes it’s glaringly obvious to outsiders what’s going on and far more difficult when you’re caught in the middle of the escalating control

My ex husband would have been delighted to be off the hook with visiting my relations and I was always a little upset he had no interest - this sounds like the reverse situation! People can have very different ideas about how to be around family. My ex Mother in Law wanted me to call her "Mum" which was just weird for me but totally normal for that side of the family. Irritating but didn't cause any rows.

I can understand why he's a bit miffed to be kept at arms length and excluded from such a big part of your life tbh but you've been pretty upfront about it and your reasoning so it'll be up to him to decide if he can respect that and if he can't, maybe you're not compatible in the longer term?

If you were Beyonce I doubt your minder would insist on being around as much as your dp does op.
He is a borderline control freak.
Don't let him become a controlling dh...
Back away. Fading out your relationship may be safer. I would guess he won't take you ending things every easily. The most dangerous part of such a relationship is the leaving it. Be careful.

Surely he must understand that if he wants to be fully integrated he would have to adopt the same religion as your mom.

If your mother and he got on better, would you be happy to always include him for big occasions like Christmas?

Hi to all - not sure if this will be seen well by new or old commenters but I have several replies that I want to make that are similar and figured a unified comment is best.

I super understand those that are commenting that it's unusual/hurtful to want to spend Christmas away from your partner especially after being together for awhile. While I expressed that I would be fine spending Christmases apart forever, I recognize that's not typical. Which is why I haven't pushed for that to continue after spending the second Christmas apart, even though I find this integration to be challenging. The jump from "Christmas alone with my nuclear family" to "Our entire families are meeting and spending the entire Christmas holiday together" was quite an intense leap for me to make though.

Some have asked about his inclusion in other family visits. I usually only get to see my family around the holidays, so there hasn't been a great possibility of other trips to see my family with or without him. I think that's part of why I have been protective around the Christmas holiday - not because I explicitly don't want to be with my partner on Christmas, but because that's often my only time to have alone time with my family. I do try to include my partner on casual "catch up" facetime sessions that my family has.

A couple other errant things - neither my sister or my mom are partnered, so there's no specific exclusion of my partner with the inclusion of others (I would also not be okay with that).

R.e. the phone call - his expressed reason for wanting to be a part of it is that he felt like he was separated and not part of my family if he wasn't included in that conversation. Like, if he had been a part of my nuclear family, I would have included him in it. It did greatly make me feel like his expectation is that his relationship with me can't be different in any way than my relationship with my family. Which, I don't know, maybe that is a normal expectation - that there's no separation or difference? To me, my relationship with my nuclear family will probably always be different and distinct (not necessarily better or worse) than my relationship with my partner. Maybe that's an unusual thing for me to feel.

As a side note - my partner is physically but not emotionally close with his family. They spend a fair bit of time together. Gatherings tend to be very casual, bring whoever whenever type affairs. So we do have a difference in the way that our families relate for sure. He often brings up that his family welcomed me with open arms from the beginning (which is true - they started inviting me around shortly after we started dating). I often find myself saying that it's nice but not something I expect - I frequently offer for him to go to family things alone to spend private time with them and he never accepts; the concept just seems to bewilder him. So we definitely think about our family ties differently.