SIL and DBro don't want to be close..

[Mintoip]

My DBro is a couple of years younger than me. We're all in our thirties (including his wife and my husband) and we all have kids of a similar age. We live in the same area as well.

I put it out there at Christmas that I wanted our kids to be close growing up.
Me and my bro have never been the closest and our partners have never really hit it off either. No one is unpleasant but I guess we just don't really gel particularly as friends type thing. When we see each other at family occasions it's kind of small talk-y but always pleasant and everyone seems happy to see each other.

Anyway, I feel quite hurt my DBro basically brushed this off at Xmas, he basically said he thinks we've never been that close so hasn't thought much of it and we'll see you when we see you type thing. I guess he's right that we haven't been close, but I feel like we should all make the effort for the kids sake!?

AIBU?

You invited yourself to your brother's house? It does sound like you've been massively too pushy with them. I get on really well with my sister but I'd be fucked off with her if she tried to invite herself to mine because our dad had been invited.

To be honest the inviting yourself over certainly does not help. He probably feels that if they tolerate it once it will happen all the times.

Your kids are mainly different age groups and realistically are not going to be close because they share dna.

I was very close with my cousins growing up but as adult not as much. Life gets in the away. We have polite chit-chat at family weddings etc but nothing more.

You invited yourself and your family over to your brother and and sister-in-law's house?! Oh god, @Mintoip, this gets worse and worse. You need to reflect on your own behaviour and apologise to your brother and sister-in-law. And then leave them be.

This was incredibly rude.
You can't just tell people you are coming over to their house.
Even more so at Christmas.
I get on well with my siblings, but I wouldn't ever do that.

Did it not occur to you to say "Oh, I hear Dad is coming down at Christmas. It would be nice to get together. Do you want to bring him over here on Boxing Day ?" or something similar ?

You were just going to barge a family gathering on Xmas Day with your family?

At least apologize for that major obnoxiousness on your part and how aggressively you've been pursuing your agenda of cousins = built in companions. He didn't send you a shitty reply, you were being rude AF trying to horn in on their Xmas without an invite. And then you tried to guilt him with a think of the children response.

You're going to have to apologize and maybe text that you have realized your behaviour has been rude and obnoxious and you're going to back off. And then do that. No forcing the kids together at family gatherings. Let them contact you if they choose to.

No it wasn't Xmas day I should said it was before Christmas.
We had been trying to see my dad for a while and because he was going over their house I said I'd come too and my dad thought it would be fine but it turned out it wasn't..

You can change the story as much as you like, but it doesn't change the fact you were incredibly rude, and very much out of order to just "tell" your brother the 4 of you were coming to his house.

It's a bit better than Christmas Day itself but it's still a stressful season. Then add in that your DH says awkward things and your DSIL is quite a sensitive character I can see why DB wasn't best pleased with the situation.

I think you really do need to demonstrate to your DB that you can see things from his perspective too. If you come at it from a position based only on what you want then he's going to be very turned off.

Do you understand what everyone is saying though, that it wasn't your dad's decision or yours who your brother hosted? It was only your brother's decision to make. His reaction wasn't shitty. It was very normal and it sounds like you then went off at him.
If you wanted to see your dad then you make plans with him. If you wanted to see everyone then you make those plans and offer to host/ find a venue that suits everyone to meet at.
You'll never build a healthy relationship with your brother, and by extension his kids, if you trample over very normal boundaries like this.

That it wasn't Xmas Day makes it just a bit better, but what were you thinking just telling him you 4 were going to rock on up? Even if your dad told you it would be fine, he wasn't the host and you weren't invited. The best thing I can call that is pushy. Given that your husband made a comment about ride sharing and school and you telling bro you want the kids to be close and this, they are not going to be receptive to any overtures you make.

You might want to read Henry Cloud's book Boundaries and see if your actions resemble some of those that require people to set boundaries with you. (Caveat, it's very Christian but it's pretty easy to ignore that). You know you're going to have to reset your expectations. You seem to recognize your feelings even when they are unpleasant and you're open to feedback even when it's critical of you. That's part of self awareness of your actions. Maybe therapy can help you reset a bit.

What your dad thought is irrelevant. You pushed way too hard at the start. I can understand why your brother and his wife have put in boundaries.

Back off and take it easier. Send birthday cards and small gifts to your niece and nephew from your family and invite them to parties for your children's birthdays. Given some of the ages differences you might have to do them.as birthday teas etc. Take the gentle route.

Why didn’t you just ask him? As opposed to informing him you were coming around. ‘Hiya, Dad says he’s coming round to yours on X date. Would you mind if we popped by, as well? It would be really lovely to see you and to catch up with Dad.’

Honestly, OP. The more you post, the more one sympathises with your brother. You just don’t seem to know how to behave.

I guess I didn't want to ask because I knew they wouldn't want to say yes. I thought if I just said we were coming over, it might be a chance for us to make a real effort. It's felt like there has been zero opportunity to get friendly so at the time I felt like it was a good way to meet up.

Also, I don't appreciate the comment about therapy. I don't feel I need this. I think I have maybe just got a little envious but at the same time wanting a happy big family, not sure this required therapy.

You didn’t ask because you thought they’d say ‘no’, so decided rudely foisting yourselves (unwanted) on them without asking would be more effective?

What is wrong with you, OP?

No one is suggesting you get therapy because you want a big happy family; people are suggesting it because of your jealousy towards your SIL and the way it is making you behave.

From what you've said here it sounds like your approach is just doing whatever you want and hoping that the other person is fine with it. There doesn't seem to be much understanding of the other person's wants or needs.

Is this the approach that you take with everyone or just this family? I don't know if it's something that can be changed therapeutically but it can't be serving you well. The best relationships involve give and take, reciprocity and at least some understanding of the others perspective.

That's taking away their agency though. That is never going to be the foundation for a healthy relationship if they haven't had the chance to consent to it. Just look at all of the threads about MILs on here where women are at their wits end as MILs ignore their boundaries.

I think SIL is one of these lucky mums that has good kids and is very maternal.

Having good kids isn’t down to luck, it’s down to good parenting

I do feel for you as I was very keen on building a relationship with my SIL (dh's brothers wife) and for our kids to meet up. Fact is she has a sister with kids and they are really close, my dh's brother never responded that much to efforts to be closer and he seems to see people who marry his siblings as outsiders that he tolerates at best. It's all long in the past now as the relationship between me and BIL has collapsed in the wake of dh's death, but I can look back now and see he was never interested. I'm more at peace with it now. SIL and I can have a chat at a funeral or whatever and get on fine, and I no longer feel the need to pursue a relationship with her. Letting go is peaceful.

Tbh I think you could think more about your own relationship. I'm not a fan of couples who publicly tell each other off for saying 'stupid things'. You might feel less like doing that if you spend time with people you feel more comfortable with. Your dh ultimately is your partner and your kids dad - I'd focus on that more.

Hi there OP I think this comment from you shows you the problem really. You need to think of something that will work, not double down on doing something that you already know won’t work.

I respect you for taking on board lots of comments that have been made on the thread, personally I think you need to think about the small picture stuff, the way you communicate and the things that you try, rather than the big picture stuff about the overall picture of the relationship you want to have. It’s not about do they want to be close or not, it’s about working out how to have good times together and not having bad times. Having a relationship is all about the detail of making it work, which includes not being judgey, steering away from conversations and activities that don’t work and finding and sticking to the things that do work.

No, I get it now... I have, over the last few days and since writing my last reply, had a good think about everything and even asked for my best friend's (very honest) opinion.

I think I have confidence issues which stem from my shyness as a child. I think I was also used to being the high achiever as a child compared to my brother, and I guess I always thought my DBro wouldn't do as well as me in life, as harsh as that sounds it was maybe a subconscious thought of mine. Seeing him blossom and get a beautiful wife, whereas I have struggled a bit in life, not in my career so much, but I had a baby quite young when it wasn't planned, and dealt with issues around my DH, his drinking and his behaviour towards me at times, and I have come a little obsessed with my brother and his "perfect" family.

I think over this time I have been nervous/excited to spend time with them and have acted in ways which haven't been welcome, e.g competitive, showing off etc. So understandably they have been put off. I've also got a bit jealous of my niece and nephew's relationship with their cousin. As in what's so good about their cousin and not my kids!? Type thing.

Because of this I have acted badly, e.g around Xmas inviting myself over their house which I wouldn't dream of doing to anyone else!

I have decided to have some counselling relating to my confidence and I feel this post has been helpful to me. Any tips would be welcome!

I admire their honesty. They can choose. I can hear you are hurt op

Your recent post sounds good and you are willing to be self aware..your life will get richer for it. Counselling could really help

Good idea to get an honest opinion from a trusted friend. Fingers crossed that counselling will help you with this.