Frustrated with friend who is making the worst decisions

[Jazzjazzjazz]

I really just want to share this to see if there’s anything else I can do here. My friend is a single parent, she’s always been a great mother and her child was her world. Last year she met a guy, and he’s completely destroyed her world. A couple of months ago it all came to a head, and she just isn’t listening to reason. She’s not a young mother and she has a good career! The guy is jobless and moved himself in pretty quickly. He’s a drug user and he is always falsely accusing her of things and treating her like crap, and then suddenly they are loves young dream again. Since she met him she’s let her house go, it’s a tip, and I’ve been helping her sort it out because she would make excuses for me to not go round and for us to meet elsewhere so I got suspicious and since then, have been helping her get things in order.

ok so I don’t want you to think I’m looking down on my friend, I’ve been in an abusive relationship myself, but at that time I was a single woman, without kids. I’m upset about this next part, this is what is crushing me. Her ex husband was recently contacted by a mutual friend of theres, who told him enough to make him come over to her house, forcibly remove the child, and he will not give her daughter back to her. Prior to this I didn’t realise her new boyfriend is a drug user, or the extent of his abusive behaviours, I just thought he was a bit of a user and didn't trust him.

The thing is, my friend is more focused on appeasing and “sorting things out” with her boyfriend, than she is on getting her child back! I feel like I don’t know her anymore. She’s ringing me for hours and it’s all about him getting the help he needs and how he’s texting saying he needs her support (she kicked him out) I told her- screw him- keep him far away from this situation, now that social services are involved, you’ll never have custody of your daughter again if you move him back in. He’s manipulating her to live back in and doesn’t seem to care less that he has been a big contributor to her losing her daughter. I just hate this guy so bloody much, I don’t want to listen to her anymore rambling on about his good qualities and how he’s not all bad, it’s like- your daughter is gone!!!! I’ve told her she has a good job, doesn’t take drugs, and she should get her home in order and get her child back, and tell them this guy isn’t even in the picture anymore so there is no safeguarding issue but she seems too thick to understand any of this. I said if she wants to date him (makes me sick to even say it) see him every weekend when her daughter is with her dad, and assure social services that he will never be anywhere near her daughter and she won’t be seeing him in the week. Nope it’s not going in at all. I called her ex with her permission, and he is fully willing to cooperate with coparenting if she just doesn’t have this guy around the daughter. I really don’t want to walk away from a friend in need and I love her but why am I feeling so tearful, resentful, angry, and pissed off whenever she goes on about his stupid guy. Why has this not been the wake up call she needs! I 100% think despite all I’ve said, she’s going to move him back in because he’s been manipulating her so much and she keeps saying “if he moves back in he’ll have to to abc” and I just want to hang up the phone. Her energy should all be going towards getting her daughter back, cleaning her home, talking to her ex- she’s ignored calls from her ex!!! I just don’t get her anymore. Anyone know of any services I can refer her to to help her understand what is at stake here and to help her become stronger because deep down she does know this guy is bad news!

I completely understand your frustration and anger and I would be equally angry. There's no rational explanation for her behaviour but it's not uncommon.

We had a recent case in the paper where a seemingly normal woman, let her boyfriend of a month, beat her daughter to death.

I can't get my head around how you could become an accomplice to your child's murder in a few weeks but it happens.

The ex did exactly the right thing by removing his child and hopefully he'll retain full custody. That's certainly what I hope he does as your friend wrings her hands about her druggie boyfriend.

I don't have time for people who put boyfriends above their child's welfare and I'd be telling her that as well. I think her behaviour is reprehensible.

I’ve been gentle but firm with her, I’ve told her I believe he is abusive and she half agrees but then tries to defend him, so I’ve changed tack. After making it clear that it’s actually a choice between this guy and her daughter as social services will never give her back with a druggie under the roof- what more is there to say! So instead I’ve gritted my teeth and said if you must stay with him just don’t move him in, test him and see if he still wants a relationship with you when he has to fend for himself (he pays nothing towards her home or food or bills or anything!) she said hmmm yeah, and I’m just thinking, for goodness sakes women, you’re going to move him back in aren’t you. She had a bad childhood and has built such a great life for herself, but I’m so frustrated that I told her she is making the exact same mistakes her own father made (her mother died when she was a baby) essentially her father always put women before his children but it was a different time and he didn’t lose them, I told her, it is different now and you have as good as lost your daughter, all I get is hmmmm, yeah, hmmmm. From someone who seemed totally devoted as a mother. She’s also got yet another strange injury, can’t walk properly and is limping but apparently she pulled a muscle, could be true but I really don’t know anymore.

I'd text her the details of a domestic abuse organisation and back off. As long as her child is safe, that's all that matters.

Please don't cut her out completely. When she goes on about this guy just interrupt her every time and say "that man cost you your child, you can't have him in your life, I can't listen to talk of him. You should be working towards getting your daughter back safely not pining for the man that will mean you loose her forever". Short and blunt. Don't sugar coat it. Then don't engage with talk of him. If hanging up is what you have to do yes do that. But please don't shut the door on her completely, abusers mess with your head and isolate you from the people who could help you break free. Without you talking sense to her she had less chance of success. Although if you are still feeling as bad as you do now even after you refuse to discuss him in her fantasy land where he's not abusive then stepping back will need to happen. If you do step back it's not your fault or wrong of you. You have some power to support her but no one should suffer such emotional toll for someone not helping themselves

No, you are correct, 100%. I will of course be there for her. If her daughter wasn’t involved I’d have all day to listen to her talk about this guy, she would be the most vulnerable one in it all. But she’s not, her daughter is. I do understand what it is to be deeply attached to someone abusive. I just don’t understand why she is not horrified that her little girl isn’t there, I mean I’d be crying myself to sleep and sorting my shit out big time, and realise I was losing everything. She was so together as a mum, a great mum, super attached, hard working. I’m just gutted.

Call womens aid and ask for advice on how best to help her.

It’s not helpful to indulge these conversations about her boyfriend. Tell her you’re not willing to have any further discussion about him,

It’s a relief the daughter has gone, it means you can step back emotionally. If I were you I would learn the DV terminology and cycles of abuse, and engage in the conversations only using these terms. So when she talks about the abuse say ‘Yep, but soon the manipulation and love bombing will start.’
Also stop worrying about your friend so much. She is choosing this, there’s obviously some lesson life has in store for her. Let her go on this journey and be there for her at the end

Sometimes you have to take a step back from people for your own mental health. I would tell her you can’t carry on supporting her through her poor decisions, it’s too upsetting to hear. Ask her to get back in touch once he’s out of the picture for good.

That’s what I’ve been doing, everything I’ve said I’ve said as gently as possible, but I’ve pointed out manipulation, gaslighting, coercive control, triangulation, guilt tripping, the fact he is narcissistic as it’s all about HIM, pointed out that a good man would be so incredibly concerned about her daughter and making that situation better for her, pointed out that it’s easy to tell if someone is using you, and if you’re unsure, stop funding their life, stop putting a roof over their head, and see what their next move is. He got nasty when she dumped him and put fear into her mind that he might make things very difficult for her with social services, again pointed out that that is the action of a narcissist with no conscience and no love for her. I get hmmm, ok, hmmmm and then the next thing she did was give in to his repeated messages to just “meet for a chat”, I said his main aim will be lovebombing, and getting her into bed so they can pick up from where they left off the next day, I was right. Don’t worry I know all the ways of these individuals. I spent nearly 2 decades with one myself, this guy wants her to be his mother, and he couldn’t care less that she has an actual child that needs her. I know she’s thinking of moving him back in and if she does that, then she doesn’t deserve to get her daughter back anyway.

To the poster who said I should just be happy her daughter is safe, you know what, you are right. I’m spent so long grieving all that she has thrown away and wondering why she isn’t sorting her house out, getting legal advice and kicking this guy to the kerb, that I’ve lost sight of the fact that maybe her daughter is in fact better off with her father. I’m going to do things differently from now on, and tell her that.

I agree. I was horrified when a friend told me her partner who she allowed around her family (sister, nieces etc) was on the sex offenders list. I had to take a step back from her after she failed to see reason.

So sad. Children are such a gift and should be protected at all costs, I can’t imagine choosing any man over my child and I’ve been in a horrendous dv situation in my past, but now I’m a mother I just avoid men full stop. I could never imagine putting a man first ever again. I do feel for her and know that he must be highly manipulative but if she’s not going to fight for her child, and then she loses her for good, I am not going to believe that she was totally helpless to prevent that.

Are you sure she isn’t using, OP? It would explain the messy house, lack of interest in her child, and her strange dependence on this arsehole.

I was going to ask exactly this, that's my suspicion too.

She totally denies using any drugs. I have wondered if she is being honest with me. But, I have thought if she was, she’s the one with the money, not him, she’s clearly funding his drug habit, so even if she was on drugs, why would he need to be in the picture, she could just get her child back and use them secretly. I’m not saying she should do that! I’m saying, even if she was on them, wouldn’t her child matter more than him in all of this, she’s not dependent on him for anything. I already had issues with the fact that he acts like the big man trying to control all her interactions, and yet she’s funding his entire
lifestyle. When he was living with her, I text her once saying I’m going to bed so she can call in the morning if she likes. Apparently that night they had a fight about my text, he didn’t like that I told her I was going to bed, and why I mentioned bed, and am I a lesbian that’s interested in her. He’s seriously a disgusting man

Excellent advice imo

Quite honestly, I wouldn't be encouraging this friend on how to get her daughter back or advising her on how to interact with social services....because she clearly isn't capable of safeguarding her daughter.

Until she has actually gotten rid of this man and cleaned up her life, her dd needs to stay with her father - and if he is the reliable, safe parent then maybe the daughter should live with him indefinitely. And any access that your friend has with her own child should probably be supervised. It sounds like she could be using drugs herself.

Well, this is what I’ve said to her. She has said she’d never take drugs, and all the time I’ve known her, she never has. My advice wasn’t for her to get her daughter back in this situation, it was to get rid of him, clean her house and then show social services that there are no safeguarding concerns, because HE is their issue. Even her daughter’s father is eager to work this out with her and has said she’s always been an amazing mother and he’s devastated by the direction it’s going in. My issue is she’s wasting her time trying to “work things out” with this guy, considering moving back in, when I’ve told her 100% she won’t be getting her daughter back if she does that. Her daughter’s father would not allow it and neither would social services. According to what she has told me, it is him who has the drug issues and has trashed her home, her issue is she has allowed all of that around her child, and now she needs to be rid of him and make things the way they used to be before he came along. However I do understand that it might not be that black and white, maybe she is using drugs! and the fact she isn’t focusing on all of the above to get her child back, instead of on him does imply that she’s not in her right mind and not fit to have custody of her child, which even me as her friend can see, never mind services and the father of her child. I fully expect in the next week for him to be moving back in, she may or may not tell me. I’m shocked that she has so easily pushed her child to one side while she deals with this vile man child. When she said he was paranoid I’m a lesbian and after her because I mentioned going to bed, this was the point where I realised that he is extremely abusive and I really understood his attempts to isolate her and falsely accuse her of literally anything going. Such an odd thing to say when he knows that is not true, and disgusted me to my very core. I truly wish she would wake up.

Are you sure he's not got her dabbling in drugs, this is very strange behaviour.

I'd be surprised if she wasn't using as well, tbh.

She may not need him as a supplier, but she probably feels she does. None of it is rational.

I think you probably need to take a bit of a step back for your own mental health, OP. Keep the door open, but stop being the endless sounding board for her.

I'm completely going against the grain here but fuck that.

I'd be grateful the daughter was safe and be waving goodbye to your mate.

She will suck your soul right out of you.

Back off and tell her you will be there when she sees sense. People who lie with dogs get fleas and the more you give to her the more she will suck you dry and drag you down.

I'm speaking as an old fucker who's seen it all before. This will not end well and you don't need this drama in your life.

Well,

Pressed send too soon.

It's really important and a huge relief that the child is safe. The ex has made the best decision here.

But it's really not all that matters. This woman is in a really sorry state. Unfortunately op, beyond signposting domestic abuse organisations, I would step back. You cannot sustain your friendship with her obsession.

This is such a sad thread. Her poor daughter.

I’m convinced that, if all you’ve shared is true, she’s taking drugs too. That would be the only obvious reason she can’t drop him, because he provides her with access to them.

He sounds vile. I wouldn’t entertain any conversations about him unless she’s telling you she’s dumped him. Even if he stays on the scene weekends only, he’d work his way back in. He needs to be gone gone. For good.

I think all you can do is be there for the daughter if you have a relationship with her. She’s no doubt feeling unwanted given her own mother picked some vile drug addict over her. If she’s able to maintain a relationship with you, at least she’ll have tangible evidence it’s not her that’s the issue here.