Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 14

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5183563-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-13?page=1

Oh @BustyLaRoux, I don't blame you for losing your shit, that is beyond frustrating. Big hugs if that's your thing, whatever helps you feel better if they're not. It really isn't you. You did everything in your power to help and had it all thrown back at you because he is unable to listen and understand the actual words as opposed to what he thinks he's hearing.

I just calmly tried to talk to him about why I cannot help him(because he shouts at me whenever i try) and he said his reaction was due to the way I speak to him.

So it’s MY fault you shout at me then?

Thanks Pash! Yep, he has such low frustration tolerance that any form of question means immediate frustration and shouting. Not just when I’m trying to help.

I said look, it’s a bit like not being the one to reach your kids to drive eh? They can learn from an instructor but they’ll just get angry with their parent and shout at them. It never works. You’re too close. The subject matter (driving, helping with all these complaints etc)… it’s too difficult. It’s not a good mix!

Behold. A miracle!!!

this is so very familiar, in any argument H blames me for his shouting/ nastiness/name calling.
Ive sort of stepped back now, walk away. But very maddening and hurtful nonetheless

I do usually. I’m not proud. I was snarling in his face by the end. He was so horrible. Screaming that I never ever fucking help him!!!! So I screamed back. I can’t remember the last time I lost control of myself like that. I had a bowl of food in my hand and I came very close to throwing it in his face! I’m very glad I didn’t. But he pushed the wrong button todsy. (I also just came on my period so an unwise day for him to shout at me!). I usually just calmly walk away…..

If I can feel shameful about shouting (because I am an adult and can take responsibility for myself), it’s a pity he thinks him shouting is just him reacting to me.

But then again, he is the only adult in the room on most occasions. I know this is true, because he so often tells me it is. 😜 (yeah, a shouty adult who blames everyone else for everything 🤣)

Why on earth are you with this man?

This is a serious question. I said on a previous thread and I say again- your husband is one of the most unpleasant people I have ever seen described on here. Why are you with him? How can you live like this?

I’ve realised that I now observe H with clinical impartiality. If he shouts and screams, I observe him as I would a patient (I was a psychiatric nurse in the past!) and say “don’t shout at me please, no excuse for bad manners” before walking away from him.

I’ve also started saying the mumsnet mantra “that doesn’t work for me” on repeat when he tries to control finances or insisting that we should do something / go somewhere that I don’t want to do.

It’s not a real marriage or partnership, we are basically housemates with (thank god!) separate bedrooms and bathrooms and I have a craft room upstairs too. But I’ll be 70 this year, and I really can’t be bothered to leave. He behaves like a very very old man (a year younger than me), constantly moaning about some imaginary ailment, has no friends, very limited contact with his children, very limited and narrow hobbies and interests.
I’m out and about a lot, meeting friends, family, hobby groups. I feel I have a pretty good life overall,
we can agree over cooking, the garden, plans for the house. That’s basically it.

Thankfully these episode are rare now. Mainly because he doesn’t ask for my help!! Because he doesn’t like the way I question and challenge him. So he doesn’t bother asking anymore. Which is fine by me as I am a very helpful person in nature but I am buggered if I’m going to spend hours trying to help someone who then shouts and shouts at me. Usually he starts raising his voice and I get up and walk away silently and calmly. It’s a shame he sees this as ME being unsupportive, and not the reality which is HIM being awful and this resulting in me withdrawing my help. But of course he cannot ever be to blame so it must be me! I have a nice weekend planned with friends and he’d said he might go away (oh no!!!) and leave me to it.

What felt good was that I had no urge to cry. I’ve detached!!!!!! I felt angry, like really angry, for about 5 minutes. And then I felt completely calm. He doesn’t get to me any more. I feel really strong. I even went back in and offered to help! Not because he deserved it. But because I am better than him.

Also yes you are right. He has a very unpleasant side. Abusive and vile. I see it. I am no fool. I wear Teflon.

Just had an facebook video pop up with “6 norms which as an autistic person I find confusing”. A lot of these I can understand e.g. saying “let’s go for coffee” when you have no intention to do so. Another one though was “the expectation to do tasks without being explicitly told like emptying the dishwasher”. I don’t really understand this one, and think it can’t be the case for all people with ASD? Especially if it’s part of their routine/an agreed regular chore? Trying to re-visit chores with my probably ADHD and maybe ASD partner so this was a bit worrying!

With respect to the idea that there are unspoken norms maybe the problem with regular chores is that the regularity is seen as/ perceived to be unnecessary. For the (hypothetical) ND person the “contract “ needs to be renegotiated frequently? Sure it is accepted that the dishwasher “needed” to be unloaded last week but its unclear or unexpected that it still needs doing. Unpleasant or formulaic caring tasks or tasks of no direct utility to the actor may be deemed unnecessary and therefore an unfair imposition. Especially if they relate to the notion of a shared experience of space where the notion of a shared experience is itself contested.

How do my dirty dishes affect you, after all? Why does the location of an object change its utility or symbolism? In Anthroplogy we say “Dirt is matter out of place”—lovely garden soil becomes a problem when it is tracked into the kitchen and becomes dirt which might render dinner unclean. If you refuse to recognize these ultimately cultural shibboleths then, for example, your partner’s insistence thst you move dirty dishes from the dining table to the dishwasher right away might seem bizarre and controlling.

Interesting, I sort of get it, especially not the conforming to “norms”. But what about getting their own clothes cleaned/their own food made/their own dishes washed? Also, not sure how to live with this in a way where I don’t do all the domestic load? Luckily my partner is receptive and does get when I’m upset and why it’s important things are done, but he cares much less and struggles to remember or prioritise things

Well one can’t really know about why a grown person is unaware or resistant to taking care of their personal space/body/laundry/car/appointments etc… but many of the partners described on this thread made such heavy weather of, as we say, adulting when they were children and rising teens that they never really seem to have learned that it is just expected of them

PP’s brilliant post upthread, sorry I can’t remember who it was, about how different expectations of men and women shaped her vs her equally ND male partner is on point here, I think. You have to be carefully taught to manage all parts of adult life: work, self cars, finances, dusting, cooking/eating. But a lot of people, whether because of class, family dysfunction, or disability were excused or unable to take on a lot of these difficult but necessary tasks. Boarding school boys, children of over functioning parents, people with processing or learning disorders may not have had the opportunity to learn these fundamental self care duties.

@pikkumyy77 very interesting.
I ponder on this a lot as my 2 DC are very different but have been brought up in the same house. The more ND child is very delayed and genuinely does seem to forget things that will be essential in adulthood eg remembering to eat! It’s the “interest based nervous system” - some things just slide off while they are totally on top of other things! DH seemed to hide how disorganised he was but after I moved into our spare room and stopped tidying the bedroom it became very clear he can’t organise anything he considers boring. I used to think won’t but realise now it’s can’t. He knows what’s needed but putting it into action doesnt happen! So it’s not necessary the lack of knowledge you suggest ?!

Feelings eh @BustyLaRoux ? I don’t think we are allowed them.
Im not going to say LTB or similar because, I think, most of us are on here to process and discuss the bits we find tough, which is not the entire relationship. It is however very tough to not be allowed feelings.

DP really upset me this week. He did a lot of lovely things too. He just fixed all my taps. He’s booked and paid for a weekend away. He tries very hard to show me he loves me.

But the one thing where I had to say ‘this made me sad and this is why’. Hmm. I did get a brief sorry (huge progress). But then I got a really long explanation of how hearing he had upset me had upset him. And how he was now feeling so insecure about our relationship because he didn’t know how to do things right. And please could I help him now.

Even months ago I would have run to his rescue (for upsetting me). This time somehow I didn’t. I realised its exhausting to a) be upset by him b) get little support c) have to support myself and d) then also have to comfort him. So I didn’t. He seemed very perturbed by this. Said he couldn’t talk to me for the rest of the day because he had ‘so much work to do’ (he never works for long stints, doesn’t need to, so will be playing PlayStation).

But im delighted with my boundary anyway.
No more playing nursemaid to soothe him because he upset me. I’m conserving my energy for myself.

NT men have bad points too. The difference, I imagine, is that their partners can talk to them about it and maybe even collaboratively resolve things. I think a lot of us come here to air the dirtiest laundry of our relationships because we can’t discuss issues with our partners. They may deny it, turn defensive, or play victim. I’m sure they all do lots of lovely things and have many great characteristics (mine does). But I have learned raising any emotional/feelings problem with DP only creates ten more problems because of how DP will react. He’s not seemingly interested in solutions either. So I probably make him sound terrible but this is because I am coming here to process the challenging bits. I have nowhere else to turn. I refuse to devote all my therapy time and ADHD coaching to this man. So I put his bad bits on here. But it’s not all of him.

’Interest based nervous system’ is so apt.

I find with DP that everything that I need has to be expressed in terms of one his interests.

He often tries to drop/disregards/corrupt date night because sth related to one of his special interests has caught his attention.

So now I do it like eg this: would you like me to come to rugby with you every other week during the season? Great. So every non-rugby week for date night, I will choose the date. Remember- every date night I choose earns you my company at the rugby the week after.

There is still a lot of ‘no sorry, you can’t convince me to choose rugby when it’s my turn to choose because rugby is your special interest and not mine. Sorry, a rugby awards dinner is still rugby.’

But this cements dare night as non negotiable, fulfills the special interest, dangles the interest-based reward and ensures set access to the special interest reward at predictable times. I hate rugby but it’s worth it.

You sound so balanced. I am in awe! And yes you’re right. It’s not all bad. There is often plenty to be content with. The bad is pretty fucking awful when he blows. I have shut down my emotional inner workings now. Imagine lights on, but no one home type of scenario. I smile at DP. I make nice. I am chirpy and warm on the outside. But the inside is switched off. Instead I have spent a lovely evening with my son, watching TV and being daft in his room. He’s lovely. Once I might have sat there consumed with sadness and unable to hide it. But this evening I felt genuinely jolly and glad to be exactly where I was without any emotional distraction. It was very liberating. Complete emotional detachment. I highly recommend it!!

I have had a lot of internal success with the Mel Robbins Let Them theory.

Let him not understand my emotion. Let him turn it all back onto himself. Let me ignore that and stay focused on me.

Let him be inconsiderate and fail to understand not only my emotions but also his own. He has a diagnosis of alexythimia. He can’t be considerate just like someone who is blind can’t see. Let me not expect what he can’t give. Let me find emotional support elsewhere.

Let him show his love in his own ways. Like fixing my car or doing my food shop or renewing my insurance or spending money on me.

Let him have a paddy if the pasta isn’t perfectly al dente or my mattress is ‘too lumpy.’ Let him buy me a new mattress and cook most of the meals.

I have a REALLY long list of these. It does create that sense of balance.

I still remember Busty's posts when she first joined these threads and truthfully I thought she was describing the most abusive poster I had ever read about on these threads (the speedboat posts). That particular combination of abusive and ND was painful to read about. I don't say anything on these threads lightly. This man sounds profoundly abusive.

Yep. I am coming to this way of thinking too. It’s liberating. I’ve stopped wasting my time wishing he was different, willing him to consider my viewpoint or be less self centred. But he can’t.

Yeah, the boat was a dark day, Squirrel, and one I will never forget! Something switched in me about two days after that. He is everything you say.

I have to agree @SquirrelSoShiny. I think a lot of really horrible behaviour is being normalised and accepted under the guise of being ND. I think a lot of lines in the sand are being blurred and these partners are being given way too much slack.

I really don’t think many people in NT relationships would accept this level of “abuse” from a partner and if they did and posted on here they would be told to LTB. Everyone who types on here talking about being abused always says “but my partner/Husband has so many good qualities/hes a good dad etc…..they really aren’t.

I agree with @Rainbow03 again! 😊
Prior to DH’s diagnosis I came to believe that I was in a sort of abusive relationship. But it didn’t fit all the criteria - what sort of abuser does lots of household tasks? or leaves me to deal with household finances? And much of the “abuse” didn’t make sense/wasnt logical. Happened only infrequently. I doubted myself - and am I going to blow up my life and the children’s if maybe I’m being over sensitive? With ND kids who don’t want to move home etc And (up until recently) a divorce system which made it difficult to end a marriage while all living in the same house. (I saw the film A Real Pain and thought the character Benjy was so similar to DH - a loveable but prickly/turbulent character) Well in the end I suppose - as I detached - it got clearer and clearer. This year I have to move him out of the house and file for divorce. It’s going to be a tough year but I have to do it. I want a peaceful life so it’s got to be done. I can’t be getting old and ill and living with this chaos!