Loan outstanding to our son is causing weekly abuse

[Tiredtrudy]

I'm not sure if I'm being the unreasonable one here. We moved two years ago. Our adult son (now 25) was living in London. Our mortgage offer came up £20k short and he covered the shortfall with a loan (we had maxed out on the house due to our ages). Payments to be paid by us, and his terms were he wanted to move in to save for a house deposit. That was eighteen months ago. During that time I became seriously ill and will not recover. I'm the high earner. I'm waiting to be medically retired. These things are never quick as insurance doesn't want to pay.
He has paid nearly all the monthly payments as I've been unwaged but never given us any keep. He might buy the odd takeaway. Anything he pays for is recorded on a spreadsheet which I didn't know existed until recently.
The monthly payment is £400 the same as many friends charge their adult DC. He eats a lot. He earns more than his father who is in his 60s and still working to keep a roof over our heads. We also have a younger DC at home who is at a local University.
Things have come to head as he wants to buy this spring. I haven't been able to confirm if I can give him this money back then. He is now forcing us to sell our home (which we do need to due for mobility reasons). We have equity in the house to repay him and move to a smaller property.
I'm now expected to give full weekly updates on our finances and any accessible work options I might be applying for. If I don't give him this information he flys into a rage screaming at me and telling me I've ruined his life.
The payments he has made are less than 10% of his take home pay.
He had mostly a private education and I paid off his sports car finance two years ago. He's never offered to take that off 'the bill'.
My DH has told him I'm ill and when the house is sold he can have his money. It doesn't seem to be enough. My husband things he's a privileged brat.
To punish us he refused to attend a family party at the weekend. Yesterday he shouted at me for an hour. I was crying. It turns out he had promised his GF a house last year. She was going to leave him as this hasn't happened.
Due to my health I am barely able to walk. I can't just go and work in a shop or warehouse. He does stay with his GF a couple of days a week and we all breathe a sigh of relief. I'm not frightened of him but he is so nasty to me. I don't know what to do.

You have not been a good parent. While his anger is justified his behaviour isn't. Get the money asap and repay him so he can apply for a mortgage without your debt hanging round his neck. This is your fault.

I agree. Fine, he's not had too bad a deal while living at home but he's now saddled with £400 a month for the next three years at least while not living at home.

I really don't think anyone would be pleased with that situation, especially if there was no apparent action on selling an unaffordable and unsuitable house.

My sympathy would be a lot greater if action was being taken to resolve the situation properly.

The son has a girlfriend and I wonder whether she's putting pressure on him: if he's promised her they can move in together in in spring 2025 when he buys a property?

I'm wondering whether OP and her mysterious DH have been the kind of people who have afforded sports cars and private education by constantly remortgaging? They wouldn't be the first people I've known to drive around in Range Rovers and spend a fortune on holidays, while actually having very little equity to fall back on.

I can see both sides here, his behaviour isn’t great but I can see his frustration. He’s been left paying £400 on a loan that isn’t his. OP asked for £300 board and is frustrated he’s free loading when he’s actually paying £100 more than he was expected. The loan will be paying back way more than 20k due to interest and I’m not sure he will get the 20k plus interest from OP, so he will be out of pocket.

OP never asked to get sick or ill but they never predicted this when he took out the loan. It’s all a bit of mess and I can see why both sides are annoyed.

Why are you stalling selling the house? You've said you need to move. He is being obnoxious but hopefully that will disappear when he can see signs of progress, and you can all put this poor decision behind you.

If I were the son I would be wary of paying off the full loan in case OP really drags her feet selling the house & starts pressuring him to forget about it.

Especially since she's moaning now about the lack of board and considering previous gifts as "debt".

You have decided to put your house on the market and downsize for mobility reasons, and when you do that there will be equity for you to pay your son a lump sum.

Your son has paid £400pcm off your £20k loan for 18m, but was supposed to pay £300pcm board, so effectively he has paid £1800 to keep on top of repayments that you couldn't make due to not being able to work.

If repayments are £400, was the loan over 5 years?

He is clearing ca. £4k pcm after paying the loan, so he has been able to save enough for a deposit in 18m (easily £30k).

You could ask him to move out, pay him the £1800 you owe him and take over the repayments of £400pcm now if possible. Could you get a lodger? His food alone will save you £200 or so.

If you can't afford to do this yet, you and DH will have to set out that you know you owe him £100/month and you will repay that when you can, but in the meantime he is not to shout etc and that he took the loan at his own risk, it was his decision.

You have possible funds from 'medical retirement' which may be insurance or pension products - you say these never happen quickly but if you have been unable to work for 18m then it really is time to put pressure on here with e.g. ombudsman if you're not getting anywhere.

As pp have said, all the money you have spent on him in the past is irrelevant, but I do think there should be goodwill and a sense of united family as a result of the sacrifices you made in the past for him, and of course given your illness. He sounds like a bully. You have lost your parent child boundary due to being beholden to him for the money. Let him know that lending money doesn't mean he can behave like this, and reset the boundaries and behaviour expectation as soon as you can.

Do you have no grasp of what has happened here?? How would you feel if you took out a substantial loan and a very young age for someone else, on terms that they made the repayments and then they TOTALLY failed in all respects to make any repayments at all - completely stitching you up for financial ruin that would take years and years to recover from right at a point when you are starting out.

What the OP and her DH have done is far, far worse than their DS, they have caused this entirely themselves and they need to be the grown ups and sort it out

The OP has fucked over her son. He took out a loan in his name that she assured him she and her husband would repay but they haven't. He is stuck with a massive loan at a point where he wants to begin his own life. As horrendous as it is that the OP has become ill, she has essentially destroyed his ability to begin his life and potentially destroyed his relationship, all because she wanted a house she couldn't afford. And her whole post here is filled with justifications for why it's ok that she's wrecking his life and he should get over it. I can't actually imagine what the poor guy is hearing from her at home on an ongoing basis. This is a shameful way for a parent to treat a child.

This sounds so messy and devoid of proper accounting.

Sit down with an accountant and work out what you think to be the financial details between yourselves and DS.
Have him also present his opinion as to the set up.
With the accountant helping you and your son to discuss the arrangement come to an agreement.
Sell the house, pay what you owe and send your son into his own life without you.

Work on rebuilding an adult relationship and do not ever mix money and family again.

Wouldn’t it cost more than 20000 for the don to live in London and pay rent? The loan is highly problematic but he should actually have had no problem repaying it speedily (that is getting out from under the loan) by simply treating it like rent money. Once the parents fell into crisis that would have been the sensible thing to do. Then the parents could pay him back the loan from the house sale.

True, it would only work if the parents actually sold the house and gave him back his money. I guess they would need to draw up an agreement with interest if they fail to repay the loan by a certain date. It's all very transactional and very little love but I guess this is what happens when you start treating your loved ones as banks.

It's quite simple - sell up quickly, pay him back and move on.

Of course relationships will sour where debt is concerned.

That's why you don't do it.

I'm getting a lot of abuse on this thread with assumed behaviour on my part. Also lots of support, thank you.
I underwent chemo this year, it hasn't worked. I will start my next course in January.
I am well insured and both my children inherit immediately.
I did not pressurise my son into the loan, he offered. I said I would buy a smaller house, he said no he wanted us to buy this house as it was a bargain. He works in finance. It has been valued up considerably. It will be marketed from next month.
He can be a very sweet boy and I suspect he is scared I will die.

Essentially you purchased a property that you couldn't afford in the first place. Instead of accepting a loan from your son, you should have looked at properties that fitted within your mortgage offer. However, my understanding is that your son took out a personal loan of £20K to bridge the gap, on the provision that he lived in the property too and you paid the loan back at £400 a month. You have become ill (not your fault) and now are unable to pay the agreed monthly loan repayment, meaning he is covering this. He wants to purchase his own property, but with a £20K debt against his name, it's unlikely he will be able to secure a mortgage (at the very best, not offered as much as he would like). He's now worried this £20K debt is going to cause him to be living at home for years, whilst paying it off. Nothing excuses bad behaviour on his part, that's completely out of order and shouldn't be tolerated. However, you need to sell the property, you are currently living in, to pay him back the money you owe. In the meantime, can your finances stretch to paying half or a quarter of the monthly repayment to him? Yes, the debt is in his name, he has no choice but to keep paying it.

@alittleprivacy I agree with you in a way but he is living with her rent free which really muddies the water.

Is the issue that he wants paying back for the loan payments he's made? Or he wants the loan cleared so he is able to buy? I assume the plan was to clear the loan by now.

Or is it both?

Are you going to pay him back the £400/month he's paid. Or £100/month, as he hasn't paid the agreed £300/month board? (Ignore whether people think he should be paying board, it just shows their privilege if they can't comprehend a situation where this is appropriate).

I don't understand why you're saying he's never paid board. He effectively has, as he's paying the loan. He's been paying £100 a month more than he agreed to. I suspect its less the £100/month that's the problem and more that he has a loan against his name that needs to be cleared so he can buy.

He's still being a dick. As is the girlfriend if he's told her the full situation. I can't imagine ever speaking to my parents in that way.

Is there anything you can do to speed a sale or insurance along that you haven't already done? Could you take an amount out of your pension to clear the loan?

This all sounds very emotive. Add in you being poorly and your sons desire for a house of his own what you have is a big mess. Paying £400 a month on a take home of £4k ( I think that's what you said) seems doable. But he may have other financial commitments you haven't mentioned. If he hasn't then he's worried presumably about the loan affecting the amount he can borrow on a mortgage. Of course he agreed to pay £300 keep and he hasn't, he is only actually paying £100 on top. But he won't see it like that. People can be very very peculiar in their thinking about money. He won't be factoring in all the things you have paid for from which he benefits, or any money you have given him previously. All he can think about is £20k.
As others have said you need to separate your finances as soon as possible. Shouting and screaming does no one any good and your current position means you can't afford where you live. Don't beat yourself up about it, your circumstances have changed. Put your house up for sake immediately, when it's sold pay him off. I'm guessing you had no written agreement with him, so in effect he is relying on you paying him back. That may make him more nervous so the sooner it's all resolved the better.

I'd say he's stressed worried and freaking out he's ruined his immediate future of getting on the property ladder, losing his girlfriend who wants to move on with their future but can't as he got a massive loan for his parents who can't now pay it and that he will be stuck living at home forever because he can't get a mortgage because of the loan. And to top it off his parent won't engage in making a plan to fix things.
Yes his mother is ill and yes he's acting out of order but that house needs sold and op needs to buy a house she can actually afford

I'm sorry that you're so ill. It doesn't sound like you'd be fit for any kind of work right now.

However, I'm afraid your illness is where my sympathy ends.

You've had the talent or luck in life to achieve a high income as a family, but you seem to lack wisdom to go with it. I think this is part of the reason why you thought 20k was a wise or reasonable amount to borrow from your son, whilst most people would do anything they can to avoid that because they recognise it as a lot of money.

If you were able to send him to private school (without a bursary presumably), then I'm not sure how you've ended up taking a loan from your son who's only in his mid 20s, or why that was necessary. You say it was to do with age, but what it really necessary to have a house that cost that much extra, and ending up taking a large loan from your son, rather than settling for a bit less? Living out of your means comes to mind.

He had mostly a private education and I paid off his sports car finance two years ago. He's never offered to take that off 'the bill'

I know that might be a hard pill to swallow, but what you gave, you gave willingly as a parent. It shouldn't not have been given if you had high expectations of claiming it back off him later in life, or if so, that should have been made clear to him at the time.

My DH has told him I'm ill and when the house is sold he can have his money. It doesn't seem to be enough

Why is that not enough? Your son might be angry, but it seems like there's missing detail here. The fact that he's so angry suggests to me that he doesn't believe you will sell the house for some reason, or that it will take a very long time to do so. Have you already put it onto the market?

My husband things he's a privileged brat

You need to look at yourselves first and take responsibility for how you raised him before laying that on him as some kind of abstract personality trait.

I don't agree with the shouting, but if you want your son to believe you're going to downsize, you need to get going with that ASAP.

Invoice him for all of this.

What a nasty shit he sounds.

OP is your house on the market?

If not, why?

He saw an opportunity to get a good deal by just having a loan for 20K that costs him £400 monthly. For that he gets free food and board in London, which is worth far more. If the deal was that you'd pay back the 20K, and he'd only be paying £300/month, he's instantly saving another £100 on the loan. As he hasn't been paying you board anyway, he's effectively getting food and lodgings off you at the piffling cost of £100/month to him. Even if he did all he said, did you not see at the time that it was an awful deal for you? You've made bad financial choices on this. You'd of been better off getting an unsecured loan or sticking the amount on a credit card and paying it off.
Unfortunately, it's clear that your DS is a person who likes to blame all his problems and short-comings on other people, and currently you're it. Maybe he even lies about his income and its not that great, or he has debt that he needs to service that you don't know about.
You clearly are not the reason he hasn't got a house yet, the loan is tiny compared to house buying. He probably has much bigger issues with his GF than not having a house, but doesn't want to accept blame there either. If he moved in with you instead of buying a house like he told his GF he would, last year, then it's because he couldn't afford a house at the time, and was not being truthful to her about that.
It's ludicrous, on top of the benefits he's getting, that you would agree to pay the loan back too, so he's been living there for free effectively, costing you a bomb in food and heating meantime, not to mention losing the 25% discount in council tax you'd have if he didn't live there.
If you had the arrangement written down, neither of you have stuck to it, so chuck him out. If it was a verbal agreement, chuck him out as nothing is binding.
Just do yourself a favour and tell him to leave. It's high time he came to understand how much you have been his safety net over the years, by withdrawal of support. See how he likes it on his own as he's whinging about how bad he has it now.

In our family things always come out as anger rage and a big whoo ha first and then you get to the bottom of it and discover that as you say they’re terrified you’re going to die and leave them or something along those lines.

You need to sit down calmly as a family and work out what to do for the best.
The girlfriend probably is putting pressure on because she wants to get on with her life, which is fair enough. But this part of the conversation doesn’t involve her.

@GabriellaMontez you can't change your mind and decide gifts were loans just because you don't like someone's behaviour.