Loan outstanding to our son is causing weekly abuse

[Tiredtrudy]

I'm not sure if I'm being the unreasonable one here. We moved two years ago. Our adult son (now 25) was living in London. Our mortgage offer came up £20k short and he covered the shortfall with a loan (we had maxed out on the house due to our ages). Payments to be paid by us, and his terms were he wanted to move in to save for a house deposit. That was eighteen months ago. During that time I became seriously ill and will not recover. I'm the high earner. I'm waiting to be medically retired. These things are never quick as insurance doesn't want to pay.
He has paid nearly all the monthly payments as I've been unwaged but never given us any keep. He might buy the odd takeaway. Anything he pays for is recorded on a spreadsheet which I didn't know existed until recently.
The monthly payment is £400 the same as many friends charge their adult DC. He eats a lot. He earns more than his father who is in his 60s and still working to keep a roof over our heads. We also have a younger DC at home who is at a local University.
Things have come to head as he wants to buy this spring. I haven't been able to confirm if I can give him this money back then. He is now forcing us to sell our home (which we do need to due for mobility reasons). We have equity in the house to repay him and move to a smaller property.
I'm now expected to give full weekly updates on our finances and any accessible work options I might be applying for. If I don't give him this information he flys into a rage screaming at me and telling me I've ruined his life.
The payments he has made are less than 10% of his take home pay.
He had mostly a private education and I paid off his sports car finance two years ago. He's never offered to take that off 'the bill'.
My DH has told him I'm ill and when the house is sold he can have his money. It doesn't seem to be enough. My husband things he's a privileged brat.
To punish us he refused to attend a family party at the weekend. Yesterday he shouted at me for an hour. I was crying. It turns out he had promised his GF a house last year. She was going to leave him as this hasn't happened.
Due to my health I am barely able to walk. I can't just go and work in a shop or warehouse. He does stay with his GF a couple of days a week and we all breathe a sigh of relief. I'm not frightened of him but he is so nasty to me. I don't know what to do.

What did your son tell his lender he needed £20k for? They wouldn't have lent it to him if they knew it was for someone else's mortgage. Did he lie to them?

Where did you tell your mortgage lender (and your solicitor) the £20k came from? Did you lie to them as well?

It sounds as though you've incited your son to commit fraud, which is a serious offence with heavy penalties if convicted. I suspect you've acted fraudulently as well. Now your son is at a financial disadvantage, and possibly unaware of the legal implications of his actions. I really hope this doesn't come back to bite him later on.

The agreement was he would give them the £20k loan and he would pay it back, in return with living in said house for free.

The agreement was exploitative and illegal to start with. It's mortgage fraud.

Exactly! Also you say that the £400/month is less than 10% of his take home pay, so he was a 23 year old with something like 80-90K/year salary? Are you sure about that? If so, he could just pay the debt off quicker and write up a loan agreement between the two of you and you pay him off once the house is sold.

You’ve put your son in a very shitty position that will now affect him badly for years. How is he supposed to get a mortgage now when he has 20k debt, no one will touch him. This will set him back years, no wonder his girlfriend wants to leave him, he made the wrong choice choosing to fund you instead. He shouldn’t be abusive though even though his frustration is understandable. You didn’t get Ill on purpose and this is no one’s fault but it is your son who is up shit creek because of it.

Oh dear, OP. I am sorry for your illness.

Your son is being abusive to you with the shouting and demanding details of your finances and looking for work. You and your DH (his father?) need to make it clear to him that his behaviour is unacceptable and that if it continues he will have to move out.

You and your DH should not have borrowed £20k from your 23 year old son who did not have the money in order to buy a house you couldn't afford. You thought it would be ok but then you became ill and it wasn't.

Where are you in the process of selling the house? If there is equity in it then this is the only way of resolving the issue. Sell the house, downsize to something you can afford and settle the loan your son took out.

Do set up your own spreadsheet and deduct the £300pcm board that you had told your son he would have to pay and hasn't from the £400pcm loan payments he has been paying. Don't adjust for private school fees or car finance that are nothing to do with this housing/loan situation.

I hope for a smooth house sale and resolution of your ill health retirement/insurance. Don't put up with your son shouting at you in your own home but do everything you can to speed up the sale.

So have I got this right, he lives completely rent free and you owe him several hundred per month? Surely if he paid rent you could pay him back that money? Why is he expecting to live rent free?

Suspect his parents have also helped create this attitude with their reckless approach to finances - paying for deposits and car loans one minute then borrowing £20k the next without a back up plan of how to pay it back. What a mess.

Asking adult children to pay an agreed amount of board to move in is absolutely fine, borrowing a significant amount with no back up plan of how to pay it back, meaning the son may be stuck living there indefinitely, even though he clearly doesn’t want to, is not okay.

The agreement seemed to be that the OP was repaying him for the loan in order for him to buy early this year. She’s now saying she can’t afford to, he may get it when she sells, and she’s also guilt tripping him with his private education that she, as his mother chose.

“I haven't been able to confirm if I can give him this money back then.”
“and when the house is sold he can have his money. It doesn't seem to be enough.”

Its probably not enough because OP has no plans to sell the home as she claims she needs it and 1.5 years in his parents now can’t give him any assurance or timeline on when he is getting the 20k back to pay off the loan he took for them.

Wrong . The agreement was OP and the husband would pay the loan(which didn't happen) and that he would pay them £300 keep ,which also didn't happen, because he's repaying the loan.

Jesus- your poor son. What kind of parent does this to a young man who is just making their way in the world?

Your DS may be at the end of his tether having realised the stupidity of loaning you £20,000 which he needs back ASAP. His girlfriend sounds dreadful from the little you've said Tiredtrudy and DS shouldn't be screaming at you BUT you need to pay him back the loan, no matter that he has lived with you and not paid towards his costs. I'm sorry you are so ill but I have some sympathy for your DS here.

No. The agreement was the parents would make the repayments and he would pay £300 board for the time he was living there.
Now he's stuck paying the repayments of £400 beyond when he wanted to move out, and his mum seems to want board on top.

Are you claiming everything you're entitled to OP? I'm disabled and get PIP and new style ESA which brings in over £1300 a month which would allow you to pay off the loan. If you are barely able to walk you should be able to get the enhanced/support rates (which I get).

You should arrange to make the loan repayments, but charge board separately, set up as a standing order. Then it will be more transparent who is paying for what.

He can't really just pay off a lump sum if he's saving a deposit for his own house can he?

One big selling point to getting a mortgage was to get it paid off before we get to retirement ages and hopefully before ill health hits.

Things have come to head as he wants to buy this spring. I haven't been able to confirm if I can give him this money back then. He is now forcing us to sell our home (which we do need to due for mobility reasons). We have equity in the house to repay him and move to a smaller property.

That doesn't seem unreasonable stance at all. He needs the debt cleared/money back to move on with his life - maybe if you can't meet that timetable then you need to sit down and talk like adults and explain why that's not possible but that you can by x date.

I get you have another child at home at Uni but frankly that not his responsibility - none of this was - I'd hope for consideration from my kids but I don't think you've behaved well towards your 25 year old getting him to take on debt in your name at all well.

Maybe he just really stressed and scared and needs a sit down adult talk - not a guilt trip for all things you've paid for in the past OP. I get your worried and upset and scared and maybe that needs also needs that spelling out to him as well. Then maybe you can all be a bit more considerate to each other.

He sounds unpleasant.

You owe him money.

None of you come out well in this situation.

No. but he could pay a lot more than 400/month if his take home salary per month is around 5K or more. He could easily pay it off in less than a year.

If Op is over 55 she can take 25% out of her pension pot.
If she is under 25 her DH in his 60s can do this.

How much is left on the £20k loan?

Can you take in a lodger to cover the £400/month?

You paid his deposit in London, was that a rental or a full deposit for a property he owns?
This is a mess for so many reasons (including the gf saying she'll leave him if he doesn't buy a house - that's not someone he should buy with). No one has behaved well here but he's by far behaving the worst. I'd be on the side of drawing up exactly what you've each paid for each other since he became an adult (so not his education but any financial support as an adult including the £300pcm board he hasn't actually paid you) to work out who actually owes who what, resolving that and finding someone else to leave your assets to in your will.

Have you been demanding board from him in addition to the money he's paying to service the loan? You only seem to be complaining that he's not paying board- are you taking into account that he's paying off the loan that you and your DH should be paying?

I don't in any way condone abusive behaviour, but you and your DH have behaved badly towards your son in this matter. You've allowed your son to saddle himself with a sizeable debt to feather your own nest and have reneged on your agreement to pay back this debt. You have gained equity that you couldn't have acquired without his help, and all you keep doing is whining that he's not paying for his bed and board as well.

The right thing to do would be to sell your house, move to somewhere you and your DH can actually afford and repay your son so that he can move on as well. And never, ever take from your son like this again. Hopefully this will allow you to repair your relationship further down the line.

The way that some people have read this ambiguous situation would be batshit surely?
That a 26th old man who earns £4k a month nett, would live with his parents for absolutely no keep whatsoever?

Why does the GF sound dreadful? She’s in a happy committed relationship, she’s discussing buying a home with her partner and probably starting a family/ getting married in the near future and her BF was persuaded to take a loan for his parents to buy a house meaning they can’t proceed with their plans. It’s now a year and a half later and the BF is in no better of a situation and his parents still haven’t repaid him. The GF is literally the least shitty person here. She has a boyfriend who is controlled by his parents and has been financially stringing her along for years.

Agree with this entirely.
What on earth were you both thinking?
Really dreadful to have asked this of your son.

He could, but he shouldn’t have to pay off the £20k if the agreement was that his parents would pay this off with an agreed amount per month. If they can’t afford to repay it they need to agree a sensible repayment plan with their son or sell their assets to pay the full amount.

OP is not working but where is her husband in all this? What about his income? Have they stretched themselves so much they cannot afford their mortgage without her salary?

I'm sorry but your adult son isn't responsible for you living beyond your means.

It seems reasonable that he wants his money back so he can move out.

If you can't afford to repay him, then yes he is within his rights to force a sale and to make you live within your means rather than him being trapped indefinitely living with you.

You put your financial considerations before his and this has had implications for your relationship with him.

I'm sorry but your attitude about how your decision to privately educated him - and how he should take this 'off your bill' shows you are financially abusing him not the other way around.

He can't move out because you changed the goal posts and reneged on your agreement. If he wasn't your son, your mortgage lender would have pulled the plug had you been living within your means. Instead you manipulated him into lending you the money you couldn't afford in the first place.

He had a financial plan that you screwed because you wouldn't live within your own means - your illness was after this.

I'm sorry but his request for a weekly repayment plan / sale of the house is reasonable. This is what a mortgage lender would do.

You are emotionally abusing him by using the fact that you are ill, to refuse to go along with this. And then you use arguments about your financial decision to educate him to justify it.

It's clear you have no intention of repaying him. And you wonder why he's angry?

You've screwed him over to the tune of £20k which was the basis of his house deposit and his future.

You should sell. And live within your means. He is not financially responsible for housing you and again, suggesting otherwise, regardless of your illness/ disability is financial and emotional abuse of your own child.

Not cool OP.