Was my relationship with my youth worker as a teenager weird?

[gregometer]

When I was 15 I was part of a youth group associated with the church that i attended since childhood. I became very close with one of the male leaders who I'd known since I was very small. Nothing actually sexual happened between us and I actually have warm feeling towards him when I think of him now. However when I look at it all as an adult, through the lense of an married women with children, it feels so inappropriate and I need help knowing how to feel about it.
He was very kind to me and did extremely sweet things for me. With it being a church youth group, he was invested in me becoming Christian, although no one in my family was particularly religious even though id gone to church regularly since childhood with my nanna. I think this could be used as an excuse as to why he was so invested in spending time with me, because he wanted to convert me.

But we'd spend so much time together, in his car, chatting for hours after he'd dropped me off. And he told me he would purposely drop me off a little bit away from my house so my grandad and dad wouldn't see us in the car together. He said he knew there was nothing untoward going on but was concerned about how it looked to others.
He'd tell me not to sleep with other boys, when I was around 16/17. This would be framed in a 'it's not what's in gods plan for you' way. And he never hinted that he wanted to sleep with me but i remember going to a boys house one night after he'd tried to persuade me not to and he text me on the night saying 'have fun'. Which in hindsight seems a little off.
When I was a fair bit older and had moved away and came back to visit, I was walking with him, and a boy that I didn't recognise said hello to me, I didn't know who it was and my youth leader said 'probably someone you've had sex with'. Which was all very jokey at the time but again now, seems weird.

This was a man in his 30s, married with 5 children. I was friends with his wife. I'd baby sit for them, clean their house, take their kids to school once of week. Again he was a gentle soul, we had a laugh and a loved spending time with him. But we were incredibly intense together and he was my closest relationship at that time. Now my husband is a dad in his 30s and I'm trying to picture him spending that amount of time with a teenage girl and I can't! I think it would break our marriage. I'd feel sick to my stomach. I'm having a hard time knowing how to think about all this, maybe someone has some wisdom?

Thank you for starting this thread. I am someone who is very concerned about the structures and practices of evangelical and Pentecostal churches, especially in relation to young people. This also includes the evangelical communities within the Church of England. The Pilivachi scandal at Soul Survivor is a case in point.

I think a grave error would be for anyone reading this thread to assume that this is historical and that this kind of un-regulated mentoring setup could not happen today. Church organisations proudly report on the success of their ‘mentoring’ programmes, which might be run by unqualified gap year students - who also pay the church for the privilege! For example, this programme provides ‘outreach’ in schools:

https://www.elim.org.uk/Articles/607834/Limitless_Pioneers_Gap.aspx

They also run a huge youth camp, Limitless, for 11-18 year olds. The website actively advertises for volunteers for all kinds of roles working directly with children: https://www.limitlessfestival.co.uk/Articles/651035/Join_the_Limitless.aspx

This all appears very fun and glossy, but this is actually a church with a very traditional approach to marriage (no sex before marriage) and intolerance of homosexuality. It is heavily male dominated and only in the last few years has a woman broken through onto the national leadership team.
https://www.elim.org.uk/Articles/417850/Our_Leaders.aspx

I could go on, but would urge parents to be alert to the kinds of organisations providing activities, mentoring or even counselling to their children and young people. It is always OK to ask what kind of qualifications someone has, the supervision they are under and to understand an organisation’s safeguarding procedures.

Thank you, yes it's so rife isn't it, in the evangelical world. I've been in that world and have seen it. They have been somewhat immune for a long time. I know all about the scandal at soul survivor but for some reason I have never drawn the parralels with my own situation.
I'm not Christian now but I do attend a church and it is so refreshingly different to what I've known as church from childhood that it's a wake up call to how weird and in appropriate the church I went to with my grandparents was.

Yes, I do think it's possible to disregard safe guarding guidelines and be wildly inappropriate without actually having bad intentions or being a groomer.

It doesn't make it ok though. It's hard because I'm getting responses like yours, but I also had responses condemning him and saying he absolutely had bad intentions. It's hard to know what to believe

Op you will never know what he was getting out of it.
Feel good factor in being a trusted adult for you.
Or something else.

It sounds like you want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Even if he was a bit stupid and has left himself open to accusations (false or otherwise).

It sounds like you could do with some proper councilling to put him behind you.

@gregometer I think you also have to remember that terrible boundaries are an accepted (and even encouraged) part of evangelical Christianity. His behaviour was wrong but would be viewed differently in church and non church worlds. Trying to unpick this stuff is so hard and messes with your head. You tell people from outside this world and they overreact. You tell people from church and they don’t think it’s a big deal.

It's a hard one to unpick.
I got involved in Scouts very little in the way of compulsory training but one thing that is compulsory is Safeguarding, one thing that they don't allow is leaders taking other kids to / from Scouts. Even if it's a neighbour and the parents are OK with it, don't allow yourself to be in a car 121 with other people's kids.

The downside of adults never wanting to be 121 with any child is it also reduces opportunity for kids to quietly tell an adult if they have problems or abuse at home.

What would you believe if your 16 year old daughter came home and told you she had an intense friendship with a teacher who is married with kids? That he confides in her about stuff, sometimes including stuff of a sexual nature? That she disappears with him after class and he drives her home but drops her down the street so you don't see..

What would your instinct tell you? What agencies would you involve? How would your husband respond?

"But all in all, sounds inappropriate but well intentioned."

This sentance doesnt even make sense - maybe its easier to be in denial.

What well was this late 30's male intending when:

He told a CHILD about HIS porn adddiction?

He enquired about the sex life of a CHILD?

He created secrets and hid his actions from this CHILD's family.?

When he suggested that some random bloke had had sex with this CHILD?

That he discussed him nearly 'cheating' with a teenage girl - 20 years younger?

This was 2008-2011 .... he was (and likely still is) a sexual predator grooming underage teenage girls.

@Cushionsandals

'Trying to unpick this stuff is so hard and messes with your head. You tell people from outside this world and they overreact. You tell people from church and they don’t think it’s a big deal.'

Yes that's exactly it!!! The truth is perhaps somewhere in the middle

@Wallacewhite

Yes I'd be horrified and it would never happen with my daughters. I can see it from an outsiders perspective quite clearly.

@gregometer I have found listening to some ex Christian podcasts quite useful for working through this stuff. The UK evangelical Christian sub culture is a weird world, not many people understand it.

You tell people from outside this world and they overreact.

No one in the outside world here is 'overreacting' - they are expressing alarm and shock at a crime against a child.

"Grooming is an offence. If you suspect a person is being groomed, even if you’re not sure, please tell someone."

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/gr/grooming/

"Grooming is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection with a child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them."

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/grooming/

God is used as an excuse for all sorts of nefarious things.

@TriptoTipp i know it sounds terrible, and your reaction is completely correct. I was just trying (probably clumsily) sum up how it feels when you realise things you experienced in a high control religion were wrong. I have had to do a lot of this unpicking myself and sympathise with the OP.

@TriptoTipp

'Grooming is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection with a child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them."

That's the thing though. Was it grooming? He did the relationship building and emotional connection, but he didn't exploit or abuse me.

It's absolutely exploitative for an adult to use a child as an sounding board / pseudo confidante about emotional and especially sexual issues including talking about resisting affairs with other younger women and talking about porn.

You seem to think he's a decent guy fundamentally OP. But would a decent guy behave in this way? Saying something sexual and potentially humiliating? Of course not.

When I was a fair bit older and had moved away and came back to visit, I was walking with him, and a boy that I didn't recognise said hello to me, I didn't know who it was and my youth leader said 'probably someone you've had sex with'. Which was all very jokey at the time but again now, seems weird.

There's something in your posts that reminds me of my feelings about my younger self. I didn't have an abusive childhood as such, but circumstances meant I had to grow up quick and from the age of about ten I had people commenting on my 'maturity' and how my head was very 'screwed on'. Actually what they were noticing was hyper-independence and a young girl who didn't know how to ask for help - and the compliments about my maturity just reinforced that I was right to not ask for help.

I would have been absolutely ripe for the kind of grooming you experienced (and kind of experienced something similar in an online context). Given how smart and switched on I felt in my late teens I can understand the struggle to view yourself, retrospectively, as a child who was in need of protection and him as a grown man abusing his position of trust as opposed to a peer or some kind of kindred spirit.

But through my professional training (I work in safeguarding) I have met hundreds if not thousands of teenagers, of varying levels of ability and maturity, and I can say with absolute conviction that no teenager, no matter how switched on they perceive themselves to be, is emotionally mature enough to manage the kind of imbalanced abuse of power that you experienced and nor should they be expected to be.

I hope you can work through why you view your younger self as not being deserving of the same care and protection that you would show your own or other children.

His behaviour wasn't 'unwise' - it was calculated, selfish and focused on getting what he wanted - time to flirt and build a relationship with you.

He deliberately sought out time alone with you, hid it from protective adults, talked to you about inappropriate subjects and put you and time with you above time with his own children and wife.

nothing 'unwise' about it.

also - the early 2000's wasn't that long ago. (not to me at my age!)_ we had the same standards of care then.

And enquiring about this CHILDS sex life as well as making judgements/demnds and assumptions about this CHILDS sex life...It wasnt the early 2000s it was 2008 -2011.

OP you were only a 15 year old girl - you said you would be sick to your stomach if your DH was interacting with a CHILD like this.

This mentor didnt need to touch you in order to sexually abuse or exploit you.
He was repeatedly getting his kicks.

Why on earth does anyone need to be talking about people's personal lives or sex lives at church in the first place? Especially those of children or young people. These areas can be covered in PSHE at school, by parents at home or by specialist services such as counselling. Church volunteers and even ministers are not qualified teachers or counsellors. I know that youth workers are sometimes employed by churches, but even so, I feel there should be far tighter boundaries around what is covered or discussed.

I would like to see far stricter rules around any form of religious evangelism, promotion, recruitment or soliciting donations from children and young people under the age of 21.

Churches can provide Bible study, Sunday school or social activities for children and young people. That's fine. But let children and young people draw their own conclusions about religion and the way they want to live their lives, as long as it is within the law. If they want to come to the church as adults they will do so.

PS. I say under the age of 21 because the action of Christian Unions on university campuses are also an area of concern to me. They are not just everyday student societies like the football club or debating society, but supported by an external organisation that is actively trying to recruit young people to evangelical churches. UCCF: The Christian Unions
This organisation has also had its own scandal: What is going on at the UCCF? - Surviving Church