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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My ex wants to take our children 50% of the time

261 replies

Shakespeareandi · 23/12/2024 05:55

Can my ex just decide to have children 50% of the time? He moved out following an affair with a mutual friend whose children would often play with ours. He has recently moved into a new place and is now claiming he can have the children 50% of the time.

I feel the children should have one stable home, and I never wanted to have a broken family. His name only on the deeds and mortgage for the house that the children and I still live in. He has kept paying the mortgage since he moved out. I cover all other expenses. My wages would not cover the mortgage. My name is not on the deeds or mortgage because he said we got a better mortgage deal that way. I have paid for bills and he has paid the mortgage. Yes, I know what an idiot I have been, so please be gentle. I am in so much pain as it is.
Currently, I have about £3,000 in savings, so I have to be very cautious about how I spend it. I've been in touch with a solicitor to see if it's worth spending £350 an hour (for context, I earn £15 an hour), but they haven't been back in contact yet. Our children are 6, 10, and 14 years old.

My family all live abroad and while I have supportive friends, there's only so much they can do.
Rents are very high. There's no chance I could privately rent. Maybe a 1 bedroom place but letting agency's have said singles or couples only. Council houses are pretty much non-existent and with long waiting lists. If he makes me homeless (he has threatened), he says he could have the children 100% of the time as he can provide safe housing with him.
To make matters worse, he was an alcoholic for years and has started drinking again but seems to be managing things at the mo. I feel so alone and sick with nerves. I am trying to keep things amicable and scared what he can do.

I know how stupid I have been. I feel rubbish and sleeping very badly but keeping it together for the children. If I could turn back time I would. I also still love him and want our family back. He doesn't.

OP posts:
biscuitsandbooks · 23/12/2024 13:29

Browningstown · 23/12/2024 13:25

You need to contact Women's aid.
He insisted you not work full time.
He insisted you pay bills, food, childrens things and not the morgage.
Do not move out of that house under ANY circumstances.
Tell him to go to court.
He has financially controlled and abused you deliberately.
Wake up to that.
Get on to Women's aid and get advice.
Agree to nothing.
Let him force you into homelessness first.
Do not allow your children stay with him.
Don't be bullied.
Tell him to take you to court.
You have been controlled and abused by him.
Be clear on that point with Women's aid.
Perhaps you can get free legal aid.

She's not married - she will be entitled to nothing, unfortunately.

Browningstown · 23/12/2024 13:30

burntheleaves · 23/12/2024 13:14

@Simonjt

It isn’t her house, I have to assume you would give someone else your home and pay the mortgage for them, as otherwise you would be a bastard who means harm.
No it's not her house. But not because he was generous and wealthy and bought the house himself. But because he was sly and conniving and arranged for him to pay the mortgage and the OP to pay for everything else knowing full well that this meant he got the house whilst she just paid for consumable costs.
This is not some 'ooooh he's great and smart enough to buy a house' situation. This is a 'he's a bastard who knew exactly what he was doing' situation

This.
He has been financially abusing her for years and controlling her and how much she worked.

OP needs to wake up, get advice, fight back, threaten to report him for coercive control and tell him go to court to get her out of the house.

OP, "lose" your keys and change the locks.
He may get the house eventually, but you can make it long hard and messy.

Report him to HMRC.uk for under reporting of income.
Mess with him.

Browningstown · 23/12/2024 13:32

I know she is not married. That is why she needs advice.
She can make it difficult for him to get her out of the house.
Let her be made homeless so she might be eventually housed.

He has controlled her working, and made sure she paid for everything but the morgage.
That is financial abuse and coercive control.
You don't have to be married for this to be a crime.

biscuitsandbooks · 23/12/2024 13:35

Browningstown · 23/12/2024 13:32

I know she is not married. That is why she needs advice.
She can make it difficult for him to get her out of the house.
Let her be made homeless so she might be eventually housed.

He has controlled her working, and made sure she paid for everything but the morgage.
That is financial abuse and coercive control.
You don't have to be married for this to be a crime.

OP doesn't have much money so she needs to be pragmatic here - it's not illegal not to marry the mother of your children or not to put her name on the mortgage.

I agree his behaviour is unkind but the law deals with legalities - OP's focus should be on finding a home she can afford for her and her children IMO, not on an expensive battle through the courts that she is sadly unlikely to win.

howshouldibehave · 23/12/2024 13:35

I think this post goes as a stark reminder to everyone that even if your boyfriend ‘doesn’t want you to go back to work’, after having kids, you absolutely should, as keeping your financial independence is crucial.

and made sure she paid for everything but the morgage.

That is often what people recommend what should happen when one owns a house and the other doesn’t, when unmarried.

HollyKnight · 23/12/2024 13:40

It's incredibly frustrating seeing woman after woman put their desire to have children before common sense. To give a man children without any legal or financial commitment is the most self-destructive thing one can do. We don't need a national campaign to educate women on this. Women know this stuff already. They just put their heads in the sand and hope for the best. Well, as the OP has learned, when you don't protect yourself either by investing in your own property and maintaining your earning potential, you're fucked when the relationship goes wrong. All you can do at this point is work on housing yourself and your children and earning as much as you can. If you don't, he could get more than 50%.

biscuitsandbooks · 23/12/2024 13:40

howshouldibehave · 23/12/2024 13:35

I think this post goes as a stark reminder to everyone that even if your boyfriend ‘doesn’t want you to go back to work’, after having kids, you absolutely should, as keeping your financial independence is crucial.

and made sure she paid for everything but the morgage.

That is often what people recommend what should happen when one owns a house and the other doesn’t, when unmarried.

Edited

Yes, exactly.

Whenever a woman lets her partner move in, the advice is overwhelmingly that he shouldn't pay towards her mortgage or house repairs because it would potentially allow him to claim in the event of a separation.

While it feels really unfair that OP is in this position, it's not something that was forced on her. Too many people have children and move in with partners without considering the legal implications - because you don't need to until the shit hits the fan.

devilspawn · 23/12/2024 14:05

Shakespeareandi · 23/12/2024 07:58

I don't think it's fair on the children to be constantly packing and unpacking bags. It's hard enough for them to come to terms with their dad leaving. And I didn't leave; I never asked him to go.
I don't hate him—maybe I'm in denial—but I love and miss him and our family.
Yes, he can function quite well when he's drunk, but things like time-keeping and homework go out the window when he's drinking. When he drank before, he would keep the kids up very late, spend a lot of time scrolling on his phone, and not care about their homework. There was never any point in him going to school meetings since he didn't have a clue about how they were doing at school, even though he expected them to do well. I do homework with them and enjoy it.
But he has many other good sides, he is a "fun dad" when we take them out.

You can have a "fun dad" for your kids who is also not an alcoholic or addicted to social media, cares about their education, and doesn't cheat on you.

Raise your bar. This man doesn't meet the bare minimum requirements.

Maray1967 · 23/12/2024 14:16

Get the benefit claim started asap and contact the child benefit office and tell them the DC are with you and that you should have it.

As well as the ‘common law wife’ problems we’re seeing here, the other one is that he gets the child benefit. No way should the DC’s father EVER get CB unless he is the sole parent. It was set down in the 1940s that the benefit should be issued to the mother. And that’s how it should always be.

Pumpkinpie1 · 23/12/2024 14:17

Child benefit can be used as proof of primary parent carer. You need it changing to your account as a matter of urgency

lemonstolemonade · 23/12/2024 14:21

OP, you've been a bit naive. It's going to be hard from here.

I think you need to see a solicitor - there is a branch of property law now where the courts have awarded property rights to women who have acted to their detriment in the belief that they have a share in the house to which they have contributed. Your partner not putting you on the deeds and mortgage to "get a better mortgage" rather than because it is intended only to be his even if you split is arguably this type of case. I'd never rely on this - you are hugely vulnerable to what a court would decide in your circumstances compared to being married or going on the deeds- but as you are where you are, you need to see whether it has legs in your case. Speak to a solicitor.

You also need to speak to a solicitor regarding what is best for the kids. In doing so, you have to be able to separate what is about the kids and what is about you. If the older ones want to stay with you, you should get maintenance based on the portion. But it is really important that you stay in the realms of their best interests.

lemonstolemonade · 23/12/2024 14:21

And you should obviously have the child benefit

TheFormidableMrsC · 23/12/2024 14:32

@howshouldibehave I don't know a single great dad unfortunately. Not one sadly, I also work in a school.

Browningstown · 23/12/2024 14:37

I have not suggested the OP spend money on the courts, but that she tells that weasel that HE can go to court to try and get her out.

She can tell the court she cannot afford a solicitor and she will speak for herself.

The point is to let him know she is not going anywhere.

The comparison with a woman and HER children living in a home SHE owns and protecting herself against a new partner moving in, is frankly moronic🙄

Not the same thing at all.🙄

biscuitsandbooks · 23/12/2024 14:51

Browningstown · 23/12/2024 14:37

I have not suggested the OP spend money on the courts, but that she tells that weasel that HE can go to court to try and get her out.

She can tell the court she cannot afford a solicitor and she will speak for herself.

The point is to let him know she is not going anywhere.

The comparison with a woman and HER children living in a home SHE owns and protecting herself against a new partner moving in, is frankly moronic🙄

Not the same thing at all.🙄

Except legally, it is.

She has no right to that house, and all she'll be doing by forcing him through the courts is causing more problems for herself long-term.

She needs to focus on finding a home for her and her children that she can afford, not fighting pointless court battles that she won't win.

BalladOfBarry · 23/12/2024 14:56

Startinganew32 · 23/12/2024 08:42

Anyway OP, as you are not married, you will struggle to claim a share of the home in his name. You could try to claim a constructive trust if you discussed ownership, he led you to believe it was half yours and you relied on that to your detriment. However, the fact that you didn’t pay the mortgage will make it really really hard to succeed. You need specialist legal advice on this point and should see a solicitor.

If you cannot claim a share of the home, you could indeed be made homeless although in the short term you could apply for an occupation order to allow you to live there but that is for a maximum of a year. You need to look into housing options and speak to your council.

With the children, the court would take the views of the 14 year old as determinative and the 10 yo’s view as influential. The 6 yo will presumably want to do what their siblings do. The kids are entitled to a relationship with you both and the idea that it’s disruptive to move between homes doesn’t hold much sway with the court.

If anyone reads this, never never never become a SAHM if you are unmarried living in your partner’s solely owned property and don’t have substantial capital of your own. You will be entitled to nothing beyond child maintenance (and if it’s 50/50, not even that). You are also taking a risk being a SAHM if you are married or a co-owner but you are slightly more protected, especially if married, as the court can divide assets unequally. As an unmarried co-owner, you are restricted to a 50% share of the house. However spousal maintenance is quite rare these days and you are fucking yourself financially by giving up work and marriage offers relatively limited protection. Married women suffer hugely financially in divorce. Do not do it - I can’t stress it enough (unless married to a multi millionaire). There’s a really high chance your relationship will break down and, like the OP, you will be fucked, utterly fucked.

Good points
I'd like to add the payment of child benefit. As a sahm, at least receiving chb in your name entitles you to payments towards your NI contribution.

Edited to add, I'm really sorry OP, I hope you get sorted soon. X

CandyLeBonBon · 23/12/2024 15:04

"Except legally, it is.

She has no right to that house, and all she'll be doing by forcing him through the courts is causing more problems for herself long-term.

She needs to focus on finding a home for her and her children that she can afford, not fighting pointless court battles that she won't win."

Citizens advice re: occupation order might be useful here - it can buy you a bit of time to work out a plan op: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/

biscuitsandbooks · 23/12/2024 15:08

CandyLeBonBon · 23/12/2024 15:04

"Except legally, it is.

She has no right to that house, and all she'll be doing by forcing him through the courts is causing more problems for herself long-term.

She needs to focus on finding a home for her and her children that she can afford, not fighting pointless court battles that she won't win."

Citizens advice re: occupation order might be useful here - it can buy you a bit of time to work out a plan op: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/

Yes - definitely worth asking citizens advice but forcing them both through the courts is going to be stressful and expensive so I'm not sure advice to refuse to leave and to cause problems is really sensible when there are three children involved.

Startinganew32 · 23/12/2024 16:02

biscuitsandbooks · 23/12/2024 12:31

I totally disagree.

Nobody should be entitled to have a claim to someone else's home based solely on the fact that they happen to have a baby together. If you want those kinds of protections, you need to get married. It should be a commitment that both parties go into with their eyes wide open, not something that just happens based on a pregnancy.

Why, when you can have a choice of protecting primarily men (who earn more, have greater privileges in society and don’t face the same struggles as women with childbirth and looking after children) or primarily women, would you choose the former? Why should a woman who has lived with a man for over 15 years, has raised his children and compromised her career for this, not be entitled to a share of the home she lives in just because he ensures that the mortgage is in his name and is paid from his account?

Cocklodger men wouldn’t be able to use the change in the law because they wouldn’t be stay at home dads. And if they are stay at home dads, they need protection too.

Browningstown · 23/12/2024 16:15

She has lived in a house for years with her children that she was led to believe was shared having paid bills on it.

It now suits him to turf her out.
Definitely it is his best interests for her to go quietly.
But I don't think it is in hers and that is why she needs to speak to Women's and other organisations and ask for help.

If she has been paying towards the upkeep and minding that house, paying bills for it, thinking it was shared, why shouldn't she try and see if she can make a claim or at the very least see if he will pay her off to go quietly.

biscuitsandbooks · 23/12/2024 16:18

Startinganew32 · 23/12/2024 16:02

Why, when you can have a choice of protecting primarily men (who earn more, have greater privileges in society and don’t face the same struggles as women with childbirth and looking after children) or primarily women, would you choose the former? Why should a woman who has lived with a man for over 15 years, has raised his children and compromised her career for this, not be entitled to a share of the home she lives in just because he ensures that the mortgage is in his name and is paid from his account?

Cocklodger men wouldn’t be able to use the change in the law because they wouldn’t be stay at home dads. And if they are stay at home dads, they need protection too.

I do think they deserve protection - which is why marriage exists and why every single adult in this country is free to get married and get themselves that protection if that's what they want or need.

What I don't agree with, is people becoming automatically responsible for other adults just because they have a baby together. If you want your partner to have a legal responsibility towards you - then get married. Or get a civil partnership. It's very straightforward and only takes a couple of hours of your time.

Women should not be encouraged to compromise their careers, stay at home and sacrifice their own financial independence without putting legal protection in place first. That should be something they go into with eyes wide open by going to a courthouse or government office and choosing to sign paperwork to that effect. It shouldn't be something that just happens to them because they've had sex and had a baby.

We are not in the 1950's anymore - women have the same legal rights as men and that includes the freedom not to marry or enter into any kind of legal partnership with a man if that's not what she wants. Nobody should be made to be legally responsible for another adult in any way unless there is legal paperwork in place to outline the responsibilities to both parties.

biscuitsandbooks · 23/12/2024 16:22

Browningstown · 23/12/2024 16:15

She has lived in a house for years with her children that she was led to believe was shared having paid bills on it.

It now suits him to turf her out.
Definitely it is his best interests for her to go quietly.
But I don't think it is in hers and that is why she needs to speak to Women's and other organisations and ask for help.

If she has been paying towards the upkeep and minding that house, paying bills for it, thinking it was shared, why shouldn't she try and see if she can make a claim or at the very least see if he will pay her off to go quietly.

She knows it wasn't shared, though. She knows she wasn't on the deeds, or the mortgage, and I'm fairly certain she knows she wasn't married.

I did say upthread she should speak to Citizen's Advice, but ultimately she has very few rights here, and she has three children to think about. A nasty court battle with their father isn't in anyone's best interests.

SleeplessInWherever · 23/12/2024 16:25

Startinganew32 · 23/12/2024 16:02

Why, when you can have a choice of protecting primarily men (who earn more, have greater privileges in society and don’t face the same struggles as women with childbirth and looking after children) or primarily women, would you choose the former? Why should a woman who has lived with a man for over 15 years, has raised his children and compromised her career for this, not be entitled to a share of the home she lives in just because he ensures that the mortgage is in his name and is paid from his account?

Cocklodger men wouldn’t be able to use the change in the law because they wouldn’t be stay at home dads. And if they are stay at home dads, they need protection too.

Personally, I’d never sacrifice my career or income because a man thought it best to. I’d never allow myself to be financially supported or controlled to that degree. I also wouldn’t expect any claim over a house I don’t own.

I do think the moral thing to do is for him to leave her in the family home with the kids, but it’s not a position I’d ever be in and in OPs shoes I’d be preparing a back up plan.

On the 50/50 front - no issues with it, we have 50/50 custody of my stepson and it works well, it can work well.

biscuitsandbooks · 23/12/2024 16:33

Personally, I’d never sacrifice my career or income because a man thought it best to. I’d never allow myself to be financially supported or controlled to that degree. I also wouldn’t expect any claim over a house I don’t own.

I feel exactly the same as you.

I really think the focus needs to be on education. There are threads on here every single week from women who have given up work, or moved in with their partners without any thought to how vulnerable they've made themselves. But of course, it's not something that affects you until the shit hits the fan and that's part of the problem - you don't know how much you need that protection until it's too late.

CandyLeBonBon · 23/12/2024 16:34

Yes - definitely worth asking citizens advice but forcing them both through the courts is going to be stressful and expensive so I'm not sure advice to refuse to leave and to cause problems is really sensible when there are three children involved.

@biscuitsandbooks I agree but I really think it depends how aggressively he will pursue he eviction? If he's a reasonable human being, then you're probably right. If not, I'd certainly recommend using every available legal option that buys you time to plan a future. There's no merit in martyring yourself on the altar of independence if you're dealing with an ex who would be happy to see you living in a cardboard box under a bridge to score points. I'm speaking from experience and of course every situation is unique.

In an ideal world, OP's ex will be a reasonable man who will recognise that it is counterproductive to turn her out on her ear just because he wants to play mind games. But we all know that's often a pipe dream and you have to use the systems available to you if you need to.