December 2024 - but we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

New thread

He has caused this by his apparent insistence on her arriving. Your husband’s inertia when it comes to your mother hurts him as much as you.

Do you know if your mother is now on her way?

Yep, picking her up from the station shortly. Will be going to bed (very) early.

Does this thread get busy at Christmas? I feel like it would, as I'm feeling ALL the narc parent pain this week.

I'm going to read through the previous posts and learn others stories, because unlike my narc mother I don't want to make this all about me!

A couple of Christmases ago I was here because I mistakenly invited my dad over for Christmas and it was horrible. Now I'm back as I'm heading for four hours of Christmas at my mum's. Can't believe I said yes. My brother who is oblivious to their toxicity pushed for a family Christmas at mine or his and I said no, and next thing she offered to host and now we're going there and his partner has just had a baby and I don't want to miss out on Christmasses with my new nephew and my daughters only cousin.

Anyway, I was sniffing my Christmas tree and going back to young childhood memories and thinking 'something's missing' and I realised 'it's the love'. Everyone in my family says my mum was nice to me until I got a bit older. What a realisation to have eh.

I nearly just bought her a £100 clothes voucher because she has no clothes (or oven, so there'll be no Christmas dinner), but then I remembered it's not my job to fix for her that she would rather have cigarettes and drink coffee every hour rather than buy herself clothes.shes been cold and unloving the last couple of days. I'm going to keep it for myself, or take it back and just give her the pretty jar with hand cream inside, I found for her. She got me a cheap pen for my birthday a few months ago.

Can I come back and just post every hour to get me through this week? My daughter is ND and telling me she hates me all week, so I'm sad. I won't get any presents apart from one token thing, which my mum and daughter would have wrapped for me. I know I can buy myself stuff but it's that feeling of unloved. My dad never even gets my daughter anything. I've gone overboard with presents from me and Santa as she hasn't got anyone on either side of her family to give her much. I told my mum a few things my daughter might like, but she got her small handmade dolls from a craft fair. They sound like voodoo dolls. It's taken me back to my childhood and her buying me things she wanted me to like. I spent it with my grandma last Christmas, but she died since. I was remembering the wooden cup and ball she got me one year as one of my presents then found it in a toy shop earlier. It was only realising how disappointed my daughter would be if I picked that up for her that I realised I never got understood. Having a child makes you realise how easy it is to understand a child's likes.

@CheekySnake of course it is his fucking fault and he is going to have to deal with the consequences. Good idea large bubbly and bed, let him entertain her xx
P.s my last post to prosecco was mixed up with yours 😀
NC over Christmas is such a blessing xx

Anyone can post here at any time and the stately home is open 24/7/365. I will try and be around as much as possible over the festive. Christmas can be hard anyway and as for myself I am learning to live without my nice aunt.

I am at home for the festive but would absolutely recommend going abroad for this period if at all possible, Awful behaviour from MIL (Evian gate) was the catalyst for us being abroad the following Christmas. She’s not visiting us this year either thankfully.

Make 2025 the year you all get these toxic parents snd or relatives out of your day to day lives, say no more to bring abused. Be tired of being the last person who matters.

@CheekySnake I can see how some might think cancelling with two weeks notice is a terrible thing to do, but not in our situation. Firstly, it would have been two weeks, not two days, and secondly, your mother is also an adult and responsible for herself and it would hardly have been the end of the world.

I agree your husband doesn't get it. People who haven't lived through what we have don't understand it. They think they do but how could they. It's not possible.

Now is the time to somehow make sure you don't repeat the same next year. We tend to forget how bad things were a year ago etc.

Leave your h to deal with your mother. He can repent his mistake re her at leisure.

But I struggle to understand where I draw the line between my needs and becoming like her?? Sometimes I worry that by putting my foot down on her behaviour makes me the selfish one. That’s certainly the way she makes me feel and what she tells her so call friends!

@littlemissprosseco this ⬆️ is the psychological effects of emotional abuse. Doubting yourself, wondering if you're the problem, questioning what is and isn't reasonable. Slowly, slowly your brain is reset to the "new normal" - one where they take up considerabe headspace even when you're not in their presence, where you can't make sensible decisions, have little self esteem/confidence and believe you have to erode your own boundaries to try in vain to keep them happy and stop them kicking off. Which is something you'll never achieve, because they enjoy kicking off and will deliberately set you up to fail (at keeping them happy) just so they have an excuse to do it.

I'm glad you told him the truth @CheekySnake . He needs to feel the hurt he's inflicted on you, all because he didn't want society to think badly of him for an almost last minute (in Christmas terms) cancellation and not being charitable by having the difficult relative to stay. He put his own feelings of, basically "what will the neighbours think?", above your welfare. That wasn't very nice of him.

Be tired of being the last person who matters.

This is exactly it @AttilaTheMeerkat . I've been tired of that for a long long time. It's a pity about your nice aunt, hope you're doing ok.

I've had attempts to change the Christmas plans we had (knew they were planning some special kind of shite when they didn't ruin the birthday day), but I've held firm and refused. End result: not seeing them. All I feel is relieved.

Again @wonderingwonderingwondering so much of what you say resonates with me. What stands out is the level of effort and resources that was put into your sister compared to you, I feel that strongly. Financially, emotionally (I use this term loosely but they were much kinder to her) my sister was given huge support and, as a result, I have a huge injustice wound, I can’t cope with any mistreatment of people, especially kids.

I came to the conclusion that they are narcissists through a lot of reading on the topic and my therapists mentioned that their behaviour sounded narcissistic (of course they couldn’t diagnose them). Like you, I did have some nice memories but I now see that just because a parent buys you something or says something nice to you doesn’t give them a pass to abuse you. So, in a way, the label doesn’t even matter, their behaviour is just abhorrent and not how any normal parent should behave. That’s the true damage they do, I think, they mess with your understanding of what constitutes abuse and your self worth and esteem is shot to pieces and then your whole life going forward is impacted by that abuse. That’s what I can’t forgive them for. The terms narcissist, personality disorder, emotionally immature have all been mentioned and all I know is that whatever label they have they’re not safe to be around.

The performative empathy is another one, in my mother’s case you can see she really isn’t sorry for the person but will make all the right noises. When I see her in action I find it chilling. Her sis in law died a couple of years back and I’m sorry to say she was in her element being in the centre of it all, sickening behaviour. 100% yes to the disgust at seeing a former close person (your sis boyfriend) being ripped asunder, especially when they would previously been treated well. My NM had an old friend and the things she would say about her would revolt you, even when the woman was dying of cancer, her version of sympathy, empathy and humanity shown towards her was messed up in private but in public a totally different face shown. My parents are working class and my NM would have a lot of shame about this but she will also look down on anyone “beneath” her, its withering.

Im so sorry that at your time of need you have had no support, that’s awful. You are worth so much more than that disgusting behaviour. You sound very aware of the situation and, with time and processing, you will feel better.

@Christmasandallthetrimmings maybe it's your mum telling DD to say that she hates you? Why is she spending time alone with DD if she's so toxic? I wouldn't want my DC around her and I wouldn't go in Christmas Day. You can visit your brother another day surely?

@AttilaTheMeerkat @SamAndAnnie @binkie163 @CheekySnake @romdowa
and everyone else who has spared a few minutes for me in the last few days. Thank you.
Ive only just found this thread, and I’m in tears reading all the stuff others have been, and are currently going through. So much resonates.
Ive never met a character like my Mil before.

My DH warned me on our second date!!

30 years later here I am, at my wits end, receiving invaluable advice from strangers. I’m sure over the coming festivities and months I’ll be popping in for some support ( if you don’t mind) but I’m determined to change how my mil is forcing me to live.

I’ve made a decision about Christmas dinner… I’m serving at 1pm. I will not wait…… when mil arrives late( which she will) she can eat hers microwaved on the leftover dinner table……: or leave……
I’ve spoken to my own gorgeous mother about this, she’s said “about bloody time” and laughed!

I couldn’t have made this decision without finding this thread a few days ago

Small steps I know but thank you all

@littlemissprosseco good for you xx I am picturing her eating alone vibrating with fury, wondering wtf happened 😀 hopefully she will flounce off.

No she wouldn't do that. Her image is too important to her to be caught doing something bad to a child. She disguises her nastiness by making me out to be bad and forthrightly telling me all that's wrong with me and how I'm doing life.

Unfortunately I have no one else to help me with DD and I have a chronic illness. DD has really bad behavioural issues which I was unable to get support from social services or anyone else from, and when I asked them for restbite as I had a mental breakdown earlier in the year, they made me leave her at my mum's, despite me telling them she's abusive. I only let her go there when I'm at my absolute limit, to stop me having another mental breakdown. DD says she's fine with her, just that's it's boring. But luckily DD is seen as the golden child, like my DB, so I guess she's relatively unharmed by her.

Make no mistake here, your daughter is being harmed as the golden child but she is unaware of this. Your mother will certainly not be helping her with her behavioural issues, quite the contrary.

Where is your dds dad?. Is he around?.

She is using your DD to get back at you and she will continue to try and steal her heart and mind from under your very nose. Such people too tend to use financial inducement to gain control like paying for driving lessons or college. Very gently your mistake here was to at all facilitate a relationship between your mother and daughter to begin with but many adult children of narcissistic parents fall into such a trap.

And do not spend 4 minutes, let alone 4 hours with someone like your mother. No good will come of going there so would cancel the visit.

@Christmasandallthetrimmings
be careful, I thought my mil adored my children.

Now they’re adults the truth has come out.
She’s lied to everyone, about everything and everyone behind every one’s backs for years.
Then played the peacemaker when arguments happened.
No one knew she set it all up until many years later

Dont get in the mess I’m in

@binkie163
Thank you
I will picture this when my resolve starts to weaken!

Sorry but I think people are projecting their own issues here onto my own situation. This used to be a place to share and support one another, not for another person to dictate how you go through life with a toxic parent. Unless you're in a situation where you're literally so ill you will lose your child unless you let the only person who will help out, help out occasionally, then you cannot possibly tell me what's right and wrong in my situation.

As most people on this thread were damaged, as children, by toxic parents, we're not all about making sympathetic "there there" noises at the thought of the next generation being damaged by toxic grandparents. You say your DD is a GC @Christmasandallthetrimmings . That means she's being psychologically harmed. Support doesn't necessarily equal telling you what you want to hear.

I’m sure this has been asked before, but is there any chance my mother knows or suspects that she is probably a narcissist? She has tried therapy before but as far as I know she gave it up quite quickly, the only thing she mentioned was that she didn’t like that the therapist was asking so many questions about my dad and not enough about her. I know a therapist would never tell her that she is a narcissist but would a therapist encourage her to think about her behaviours? She does not accept criticism as all.

I wonder if she reaches out to online resources to understand why she has alienated all of her siblings and why she is now losing her grip over, and alienating her children. How does she process information that means she has to self reflect?

When she makes one of her wild passive aggressive moves does she pause and think “this is childish and unhelpful”? I can be passive aggressive at times (I’m trying to unlearn this behaviour) but I’m usually fully aware I’m doing it, I try to call myself out before someone else does, and I try to apologise to those impacted. She doesn’t seem to have this in her.

I wonder about the mindset of someone who can never ever be at fault and how they think they exist as a perfect person in a world where everyone around them is a little bit flawed in some way. Does she think this is weird that she is the outlier?

And the biggest thing I’m grappling with is, does she understand empathy? It’s term she uses a lot, she is very quick to accuse my terminally ill father of being selfish and lacking in empathy. She shows little to no empathy to him or for her children if we are going through anything. What is empathy to her? Is it something different to what I think it is?

These are all rhetorical questions really, I know no one has an answer but I find it helpful to write it down sometimes.

@Christmasandallthetrimmings
I am ND high functioning so I am speaking from an ND perspective.
Your daughter has behavioral problems= she is unhappy.
Your daughter telling you she hates you=she is unhappy.
Your mum is/was toxic, cold and unloving, you were unhappy as a child. Your child is unhappy....other than your mum are there any other common denominators.
Where is daughters dad?
Children learn their behavior from the people around them.
You don't want to miss out on new baby nephew, how about your daughter? Does she want to see all the adults fawning over the new baby and not her. Is nephew about to become the new GC? You say it is so easy to know what a child likes but your child is trying to tell you she is unhappy. You can't believe you accepted the invitation...tbh neither can I.
I acted out as a child because I was unhappy.

@Isittimetodeclare no selfish people never ask themselves those questions because they are not at fault everybody else is. A selfish person's life would be perfect if everyone else did as they were told. Xx

We had a chat last night and she told me the thing she's been acting out about which has been upsetting her and has woken up more settled. It has nothing to with my parent. I'm bowing out of this chat now.

@Christmasandallthetrimmings I am glad your daughter is feeling happier. Have a great Xmas xx