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Happyfarm · 04/02/2025 13:30

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-science-of-self/202404/inside-the-narcissists-brain?amp

wow

Inside the Narcissist's Brain

While most people's inner monologue is self-focused, narcissists' thoughts are externally-focused.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-science-of-self/202404/inside-the-narcissists-brain?amp=

TorroFerney · 04/02/2025 14:28

SamAndAnnie · 03/02/2025 18:08

I’ve wondered if this is why both kids are extremely self sufficient physically but are really emotionally very immature. They don’t ever ask them for help, are they trained like this?

Effectively, yes.

When someone becomes annoyed, irritated, angry or expresses some other type of displeasure at your request for help - or even if they "just" become upset, stressed out, overwhelmed or appear to become unwell etc - you learn not to ask for help because you don't want to experience the impact of their negative emotions.

This is doubly so when you've been made responsible for your parent's happiness/emotional state. It's subconscious. You wouldn't word it like that to yourself, at least not until many years later in adulthood when you've the benefit of hindsight.

It's just, life is unpleasant when they're unhappy in some way, so you learn to never make them unhappy. If you needing something makes them unhappy, you learn never to voice your needs and to outwardly appear "fine" at all times, no matter what. Even if you're upset, unwell or physically injured.

Your DH eyes may be starting to open the merest chink happyfarm.

Torro it's so weird. In-between the hoovering I'm also dropped totally. It goes from one to the other. And whilst the hoovering is occurring I'm still dropped from the perspective of nothing will be said to me about their lives at all, I'm literally pumped for information or ignored, unless they want to gossip about someone. There's no talk of news like holidays, moving house or achievements or life events, the sort of thing you'd normally share with friends/family. Or small talk about current events, nights out etc.

Other narc ignores me completely unless they want something, then I'll be invited over as if we haven't not spoken/been out of contact for several years. As soon as they've got what they want the ignoring starts again, even whilst I'm still there!

But I'd say no hoovering is a good thing! If you're getting left alone, enjoy it. Although it could just be they have no need of you just yet and that the hoovering will start up once they do.

Hmm yes it’s very transactional. She doesn’t do hoovering though although I suppose her hoovering is asking if say I can give her a lift or do paperwork rather than just saying „ I need you to“. It’s not showering with presents hoovering!

SamAndAnnie · 04/02/2025 15:51

TorroFerney · 04/02/2025 14:28

Hmm yes it’s very transactional. She doesn’t do hoovering though although I suppose her hoovering is asking if say I can give her a lift or do paperwork rather than just saying „ I need you to“. It’s not showering with presents hoovering!

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Yes I think so because by asking the favour it gets you back into her orbit. It's using you for her ends. She's not giving anything to the relationship. That's why I DGAF about mine's gifts, because they're not really gifts, they're a means to get me back into orbit so they can get what they want from me, which 99% of the time isn't favours in their case, but information. As you say, very transactional.

In the odd instance I'm asked to do a practical favour, if I can't I'm then offered payment for it, as if money makes a difference and would suddenly make me available/able to do it. There tends to be even more outrage when I continue to say I can't do it. There's no understanding from them that I might not be able to do something for whatever reason. In their eyes I exist and I'm not earning money at a place of employment at the time they want me, therefore I'm available. They can't understand my lack of obsession with wealth, inheritance, status, etc. They've got no interest in knowing me for me.

Happyfarm · 04/02/2025 17:42

I think they send gifts because they are just delusional and think they are being the better person in a relationship they’ve devalued. “Look how nice I am giving gifts to people that don’t like me I’ve behaved like a toddler so they’ve lost interest but I’m the better person because I still treat them the same.

Donotwantnot · 04/02/2025 20:36

@SamAndAnnie This resonates a lot with me. My narc mother acts as if I am available around the clock simply because she wants me to be. There’s no awareness of my autonomy or responsibilities.

Unfortunately she is now elderly and dealing with health situations and I’m the one expected to be ‘on call’. Lately, I’ve had the impression that she may even be playing up some of these things to get attention. I’m having to make the decision to be strong with my boundaries and call her bluff, and that’s pretty difficult.

StripyMug · 04/02/2025 21:18

Can I ask what the term 'hoovering' is please?
It's not one I've heard before! Thankyou

Dogaredabomb · 04/02/2025 22:10

happyfarm (Do you think that when relationships don’t work out they have no ideas why? So they just automatically blame the other person)

Absolutely.

I read something somewhere about calling them 'other blamers' they can never sit and say 'I really should apologise, I was thoughtless/a shithead'.

When you manage to escape the orbit and have enough freedom in your head too you'll wonder why on earth you ever even bothered to try.

Truly, they're just not worth the bother. And the interesting thing is that they get scared if you upset the apple cart. They're hugely defended.

Thelnebriati · 04/02/2025 22:43

StripyMug · 04/02/2025 21:18

Can I ask what the term 'hoovering' is please?
It's not one I've heard before! Thankyou

'hoovering' is when you manage to escape a narcissist, and they try to suck you back into their grasp.
So for example you leave, then a few weeks later you get a message saying how upset they are because they are unwell and it might be really serious, or their cat is very sick and they can't afford the vet bill. A really nasty one is when they may get other people involved and smear your reputation, wanting you to defend yourself.

SamAndAnnie · 05/02/2025 00:19

theinebriati it's anything to get you to come back to them isn't it, even if you're coming back in anger. They remind me of the world of celebrity where no type of publicity is bad publicity, except with them it's no type of attention is bad attention. Because they'll flip any attention into you somehow looking bad and them somehow looking either good or the victim.

Happyfarm · 05/02/2025 07:41

It still amazes me that there are people in life like this who before knowing were just normal people. I still find it hard to believe that there is nothing you can do to achieve any relationship with them. Once you stop trying you really realise just how delusional they are, they are fully protected in a bubble with all the people in the right places. There is no place for a free thinking feeling person. I now feel so out of place in my situation. I have my life with friends and partner etc and then I have to (because I do love my partner) dip in and out of this weirdness of performance. There is no point in being anything other than a head bobber in their presence, no relationship to build.

It goes against my programming of what family and relationships are. It’s difficult to go in with emotions and expectations switched off.

StripyMug · 05/02/2025 12:15

Thanks @Thelnebriati @SamAndAnnie - that makes so much sense. Unfortunately I have never managed to get far enough away for that to be a thing! 😂

Happyfarm · 05/02/2025 12:43

StripyMug · 05/02/2025 12:15

Thanks @Thelnebriati @SamAndAnnie - that makes so much sense. Unfortunately I have never managed to get far enough away for that to be a thing! 😂

Even a gift after a “misunderstanding”? They aren’t an I’m sorry I hurt your feelings they are a please forget and go back to thinking I’m good and nice and giving me attention.

StripyMug · 05/02/2025 20:07

@Happyfarm YES! I remember when we were getting a puppy and I told her what we were getting and her comment was "well, Dad will be furious - he doesn't like that breed", and I pointed out that it wasn't their dog, it was ours. (Dad loved the puppy anyway!) Next thing I knew, she had bought a £50 dog bed for the puppy!!! Never really thought why, I just thought it was an odd thing to do!!!!

Happyfarm · 05/02/2025 20:18

StripyMug · 05/02/2025 20:07

@Happyfarm YES! I remember when we were getting a puppy and I told her what we were getting and her comment was "well, Dad will be furious - he doesn't like that breed", and I pointed out that it wasn't their dog, it was ours. (Dad loved the puppy anyway!) Next thing I knew, she had bought a £50 dog bed for the puppy!!! Never really thought why, I just thought it was an odd thing to do!!!!

yep it’s a distraction from the boundary stepping and a the glimpse of the person under the mask appearing. It’s not the part of them they want to be seen but it’s the REAL them. A lovely gift does work quite a few times if you don’t realise what they are doing.

This is what’s been happening in my current situation over the years. A person who portrays themselves as calm and perfect having these fleeting moments of real ugliness. It’s confusing until you see that they wear a mask. If you bring up the ugly event they will deny and lie and gaslight you into believing it didn’t happen or you deserved it.

Nothingtosayhere · 05/02/2025 23:48

Happyfarm · 05/02/2025 20:18

yep it’s a distraction from the boundary stepping and a the glimpse of the person under the mask appearing. It’s not the part of them they want to be seen but it’s the REAL them. A lovely gift does work quite a few times if you don’t realise what they are doing.

This is what’s been happening in my current situation over the years. A person who portrays themselves as calm and perfect having these fleeting moments of real ugliness. It’s confusing until you see that they wear a mask. If you bring up the ugly event they will deny and lie and gaslight you into believing it didn’t happen or you deserved it.

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My mother is exactly like this. When the mask slips it’s like an evil persona appears and it’s a completely different person. Then she denies point blank that it ever happened.

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 06:22

nothingtosayhere (My mother is exactly like this. When the mask slips it’s like an evil persona appears and it’s a completely different person. Then she denies point blank that it ever happened)

Isn't it terrible, but also very validating, when the mask slips. Do you mean facially? I do.

Their unmasked faces and eyes are awful.

Covert ones are the worst, you look mad if you say anything. It's very hard to explain to the uninitiated that there's a mask.

Nothingtosayhere · 06/02/2025 06:28

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 06:22

nothingtosayhere (My mother is exactly like this. When the mask slips it’s like an evil persona appears and it’s a completely different person. Then she denies point blank that it ever happened)

Isn't it terrible, but also very validating, when the mask slips. Do you mean facially? I do.

Their unmasked faces and eyes are awful.

Covert ones are the worst, you look mad if you say anything. It's very hard to explain to the uninitiated that there's a mask.

My mother was actually jumping up and down in glee on one occasion as she reduced me to tears and I left. My siblings refuse to believe it happened but OH was there. You start to doubt your own sanity quite honestly because it others haven’t seen this side of her they think I’m the problem.

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 06:42

Monster ex sister is a covert, she plays a very good game. I was thinking the other day is it me, am I the narc?

I have taken revenge on her in any way I can over the years. Mostly through non compliance I think.

I know that she obsessively smears me at every turn and I never ever say a word about her. Just say something like 'gosh, I have no idea, we lead very different lives' if anyone asks me anything about her.

But when I do that I am being sly and I know it. For instance if someone said 'x said that you xyz' I'd say 'oh, that's incorrect, I'll update her if I ever run into her. We don't tend to cross paths'. With zero animation, as though I was discussing the milkman.

The one mutual person we have left said that she said that i had blocked her and that although I'm very strange could she let her know if I was ok. The mutual person said lol, yeh.

Then I thought, am I strange?

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 06:48

nothingtosayhere well this is it, you do doubt your own sanity. My best friend reminds me that I don't have these problems in any other relationship.

I think the cruellest thing is the gaslighting. But I don't think that they know what they're doing.

I don't mean they're innocent just i don't think there's any self reflection. I don't know how that would feel, do you?

If I have a less than optimal interaction I do sit with it afterwards and think about my part in it.

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 06:52

I think that's awful that she was jumping up and down in glee. Normal people try very hard not to hurt their loved ones. I'm in agony if I do and give a sincere apology.

Happyfarm · 06/02/2025 07:12

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 06:52

I think that's awful that she was jumping up and down in glee. Normal people try very hard not to hurt their loved ones. I'm in agony if I do and give a sincere apology.

We aren’t their loved one unfortunately. Life to them is one big image competition that no one knows they’re a part of, even their own kids. Any gain is a victory.

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 07:18

You think people get their comeuppance but they don't. My narc family are very wealthy and I'm very not, I'm struggling. They seem to have amazing financial luck and karma never bites them in the arse. That annoys me 😂

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 07:19

WHERE'S THE JUSTICE 😂

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 07:20

Then I remind myself that babies are born disabled every day and that luck and karma aren't a thing really.

Happyfarm · 06/02/2025 07:37

Dogaredabomb · 06/02/2025 07:18

You think people get their comeuppance but they don't. My narc family are very wealthy and I'm very not, I'm struggling. They seem to have amazing financial luck and karma never bites them in the arse. That annoys me 😂

Omg they really do have it all. My narc ex met a lady 15 years younger than him whilst he was allowed no contact with his child for years. Made her pregnant, moved in and has another family instantly. They are able to live and reinvent themselves without any remorse, I think that helps them a great deal. Whilst we are left in therapy.