December 2024 - but we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

New thread

Our joint child is only 2 so unfortunately if he takes her then I can’t control it. My older daughter is 8. I do have control over her much more and I’ve been keeping her away after being on here. I focus much more on the family who love us (like my brother and wife and cousins etc) I also emphasis friends an awful lot and how important they are. She is learning from experience who she feels comfortable with and she feels something off with his family. I talk to her that not everyone will like us and that’s ok as we have lots who do. I go with my husband and daughter (2 year old) because I feel (maybe wrongly) I can control some of it. For example I go over and chat to others, we don’t focus solely on the mum which is what she wants. I’ll say let’s go to the park where she can play with little kids. Perhaps my presence will help push a different direction. I may be totally wrong. I’m a stone in their shoe but hey ho.

@Happyfarm so you are enabling your husband by being there to look after the 2 year old. Let him and mummy dearest deal with it and I suspect he wont be so keen to handle it on his own, traveling and coping with a 2 year old for the day. He seems to want an easy time stop enabling him.

Edited to say;
You have no control other than stop enabling this bullshit.

Yes he does, when she asks he goes and happily take daughter. I don’t want to derail the thread again with this issue. The only chance I had to fully protect our joint daughter was not having her really. I’m just trying to figure out the best way to expand her world so she doesn’t end up tied like the other family.

I got a book ages ago about the internal voice but I can't comment on its usefulness because I never got around to reading it 🤦, but it did look good! It's called Quiet by Fearne Cotton. I've heard a lot of people talk about their negative inner voice so I think it must be quite common to have one but I think it's not your voice it's someone else's. I'm not explaining that we'll, I don't mean like mental illness, I mean it's the toxic persons voice that's gotten inside your head so now you do the toxicity to yourself even without them.

Can't remember who had the funeral but I wouldn't go because the person didn't seem to like you last time you met. Whatever you do I think everyone will bitch about you just because they enjoy bitching. If you don't go you won't have to hear it though.

I’m fighting my inner critic currently all the time and it’s slightly surreal really. Like sometimes I have to tell myself that this weird feeling I feel is because I’ve been living in a different reality and it’s bumpy in this middle ground. I have a horrible fear of confrontation and it’s trying to sway me into backing down and it’s a fear I need to get a grip of really. My birth family works on emotional bargaining and I hate it. I’d rather at times set myself on fire but it’s killing me, literally with autoimmune conditions. Everyone has a personal agenda, even the kindest people I’m learning are not selfless so I need to stand up for myself because I’m the only one who can do it. I have a plan now which is more than before and repeat this in my head. I’m glad I’ve reached out to friends to plan fun things to do.

It'll get easier happyfarm you're only at the start of your journey with all this I think? It's overwhelming when you realise situations you previously thought were fine were actually toxic and people you thought loved you mostly loved themselves. IDK what emotional bargaining is but it somehow sounds... wrong. I mean emotions are just something you have, not something to trade. I'm probably misunderstanding it. I don't think hardly anyone enjoys confrontation except argumentative types, but assertive people have the skills to deal with it better.

@SamAndAnnie it blows apart everything you have ever know about everything. Even down to what words mean, like love for example. Nothing I’ve been taught about life as a child is actually right or useful. It’s quite scary really and yes very overwhelming.

Hi all. My post might not make a lot of sense, just a series of questions really.

How do people feel about emotional neglect by parents? Surely it's not as serious as various types of abuse. However it has left me hurting still, annoyed that both my parents continue their stupid self centred behaviours, continue to guilt trip me, and then play the victim card of woe is me.

I'm upset we can't really communicate. I feel as if in every conversation between us I say "a, b, c", they say "green, red, blue". It's as if we're from a different planet. Any time it happened to be relevant for me to bring up that actually they weren't stellar parents, they have massive emotional reactions where they are defensive, they deflect, and essentially they've rewritten history in their brains.

We do have a relationship, we talk often, when they manage to contain their anxiety and stress we can actually get along OK and have fun, but they're just so continuously stressed all the time that it's like walking on eggshells.

I should also say that our relationship, while close, is superficial. I don't think they know me. And I don't think I know them. I guess I feel like I almost have no right to be upset about anything. They did the best they could. They suffered with anxiety (still do). They were in an unhappy marriage (still are). They were emotionally immature (still are). This resulted in emotionally neglecting me when I was a child.

That's it, little of the above makes sense. I feel better typing it though!

alpacamittens

It's not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way. Their own families did that to them. If they are still in an unhappy marriage that is on both of them; they both get what they want out of this unhealthy dance of codependency.

Emotional neglect is very serious and leaves scars; it's yet another type of abuse in my opinion. Such toxic people are inclined to rewrite history as well to suit their narrative.

I would further lower all contact levels with them going forward (you are probably one of the very few, if only person to bother with them, they are really not worth bothering about) and start to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Walking on eggshells is code to my mind for living in fear.

Their best was not good enough.

Would suggest you read Adult children of emotionally immature parents by Lindsay C Gibson.

@AlpacaMittens I think one of the worst type of behaviour you can inflict on your children is not seeing them for who they are. For being too focused on yourself and your own traumas and not doing anything about it. It has destroyed many of us on here. It’s human and it’s common to avoid, dismiss, pretend, etc etc but it’s totally selfish. Unfortunately they won’t change and there is little to no benefit from seeing these people.

@AlpacaMittens my none contact sister always says I sort of wish our parents had been more physically abusive (there was an odd occasion for slapping in the teenage years). Because it would be easier to explain to people and they might be more sympathetic.

Trying to explain to someone that your parents don’t seem to love you, that your emotions always had to be buried, that you had to be perfect and learnt love was conditional….but they provided a roof over your head seemed like a nice parent to the outside world is so much harder and complex to explain. People who haven’t been though anything similar won’t be able to grasp it. Leaving you gas lighting yourself and wondering whether it was actually that bad.

Thank you for the replies. Very helpful food for thought.

That's just it though. They do love me. They've told me and they've proved it with millions of their actions through the years. That's what makes it so difficult for me to be angry with them. If they were indifferent, or cold, or mean, it would make it so much easier for me.

Instead they have a full blown victim mentality, refuse to listen, and are extremely overbearing and constantly up in my business, seriously overcompensating. Infantilising me and pissing me off in the process.

They're impossible to relax around. And they have been scarred by (very serious) abuse from their own families but have got no therapy about it. I have told them so many times that it would help them.

At the end of the day the tricky bit is they're not mean. They've never been cold. And that makes me feel like a total bitch for being angry.

@AlpacaMittens
Instead they have a full blown victim mentality, refuse to listen, and are extremely overbearing and constantly up in my business, seriously overcompensating. Infantilising me and pissing me off in the process.

Victims are exhausting, it is to keep you focused on them and it works, you give them attention so they keep doing it, it is attention seeking. Once you are hooked in by their victimhood they are pushy and overbearing. You have described the cycle of abuse. You are thoroughly enmeshed. They have set the pattern they like and they feed off. What happens if you don't play your part, do they know you feel pissed off?

I often get shouted at for posting 'protect yourself first', but being a victim doesn't stop behaviour being exhausting or even harmful to others. Doing something nasty while using a mask of niceness is a covert form of abuse we don't often talk about, its hard to recognise or challenge.

alpaca I knew a woman who had her DC removed by SS because of lifestyle choices she'd made meant the DC was at risk of emotional neglect. They didn't even wait for it to inevitably happen.

I think it's serious because it can affect your entire life and the choices you are able to make. It's hard to explain but the best I can do is to say that emotional neglect or abuse, as well as other forms of neglect and abuse, causes your brain to be somehow incomplete/faulty and so you believe things that aren't true, like not being horrified at the situation you're in for example, that leads you to being unable to make sensible choices as an adult because your definition/understanding of what is sensible is twisted/wrong/messed up.

That doesn't mean it's not your fault or responsibility to live your own life as an adult, but it can mean you're at a disadvantage when it comes to having the ability to live your own life in a healthy way. Taking responsibility for yourself might mean needing to change, to see a therapist or read self help books, so you can understand where you're going wrong and choose to do things differently. Whereas someone who never experienced neglect or abuse starts life from a foundation where that work isn't necessary because their brain developed as it should so their ability to make decisions hasn't been compromised.

Of course the problem is many of us don't realise we've experienced neglect or abuse until we're well into adulthood and our life has gone tits-up repeatedly. Or we've had DC, look after them reasonably well or at least better than our parents did us, then in spare moments reflect on our own lives and think WTF. We can do all the work on ourselves that we want or feel necessary, but regardless of the impact of that, we can never get back the time which we wouldn't have lost to unhappiness as an adult if we had started life with a better foundation. We also can't get back the time we should have had as a loved and contented DC who felt safe and protected in the world.

I think it's ok to be pissed off about that. Just so long as you deal with your emotions and don't let them consume you so ruining your life even more. The bitter and twisted, chronically angry, jealous of anyone they perceive as having something they don't, filled with hatred or with a permanent negative outlook - those people aren't living their best lives, they're not happy and by this point it's their own emotions that are sabotaging them most.

I don't think there's a linear measure of "this neglect/abuse is worse than that neglect/abuse" therefore people who experience the former now have worse lives than those who experienced the latter. It doesn't work like that. I see it as dysfunctional to think that way, sort of gaslighting ourselves. Like it wasn't "as bad" so we "shouldn't" be as affected as someone else. I kind of think it's all equally as bad because it all equally has the potential to mess someone up to the max.

I think the things that make a situation less bad are not the form of neglect/abuse but the mitigating factors (I don't think that's the right wording but it's the best I can do). Like if you had shitty parents, but a fabulous well rounded person for a grandparent who you spent a lot of time with outside school, then you'll have a different foundation than someone who was in the company of the shitty parents 24/7 because they had no grandparents and were homeschooled. The two people's brains and lives could turn out very differently although the shittiness level of the parents was exactly the same.

Thank you all for replying again. Very good food for thought. Please don't feel you have to keep responding, I am in therapy, I have a great support network, I have a spouse who is a star. I'd hate to feel like you all feel like you HAVE to reply.

Some comments from me, for whatever they're worth.

They know I'm angry. I tell them every time they piss me off. Communication between us is awful as they don't listen - but from my side at least, I'm very open, honest, and vocal about it when they annoy me. I always explain the situation very clearly to them - "this was annoying and infuriating because xyz" - not that they agree or pay any attention. This is just to say I never hide.

I've had a good life so far, great early adulthood, good romantic relationships, good friendships, my studies went great, I moved to the UK about a decade ago to do a PhD and I've since had a good career as well. A satisfying stimulating, good, secure job. I've bought a house. I've married my soul mate (boke - but it's true!). That's not for you all to say yay congratulations alpaca bully for you - it's to say that that's another thing this fucks with my head, because it makes me doubt myself. If my life is fine, could I have been emotionally neglected?! My parents have also used this as an argument - both me and my sibling are successful and happy hence our childhood was great. I almost believe it! But at the same time I remember what my childhood was like. And it wasn't horrible - in fact I have a lot of happy memories.

But I also have another thing that I remember - the almost permanent knot in my stomach and the walking on eggshells scared of what today's emotional explosion would be. Any excuse was good - my dad brought the wrong size tomatoes home. My sister was 10 minutes late from school. I didn't smile heartily enough. My granny rang at the wrong time. Anything could at any time escalate into a full blown argument between my parents, where they shouted at one another about how miserable they are and how they wished they never married.

So me and my sibling were the clowns, the jesters, the buffer. We constantly felt like it was on us to keep the peace. To make our parents happy. Of course eventually we twigged that this wasn't our gift to give, sadly.

Anyway I'm rambling! Feel free to ignore. And thank you for reading and replying. Have a good rest of the weekend.

Yes it's possible to come through it and make a good life for yourself. You're fine despite your childhood, not because of it. It's good you're able to stand up for yourself with them.

Don't worry we all know we don't have to reply. This thread and the situations that people post about are, as you say, food for thought. The various discussions help us understand little pieces of our jigsaws of life. It's of benefit to us all.

Thank you ❤️

I'm really seeing how in my life the inner critic is messing with my reasoning. I was in the unusual situation recently of having an interview of sorts and then being able to get objective feedback from another independent person. I thought the situation had not gone well for me. The feedback from the person conducting the session was good. However I didn't think it was. The independent person said I had made a good impression and to get the feedback I did was impressive. Conclusion: my thinking is warped, and as on paper my life looks pretty ok from the outside, somehow this got messed up. It probably wasn't my fault. It is really limiting.

Just want to say that I get the "we love you" etc from certain quarters and my body doesn't believe it. It's challenging for those that really do to overcome.

So yes. Emotional neglect/abuse is incredibly life limiting and damaging. The physical abuse has left mental scars but it is as if these have healed but the emotional wound never does.

Hello I've been lurking for a long time and nodding along to so much of what you all post

Re emotional abuse that resonates so much for me. In many ways my childhood was good, we did a lot of good things and at many times my parents tried. In fact, we went to Stately Homes 😂

I remember as a very very out of control teen a teacher saying to me 'but you come from a good home!' and thinking 'no, we have a nice house but mother is a lunatic'.

I want to say something that I can't say in many places. My parents are dead, I've ditched my narcissistic sister and I'M SO HAPPY.

I only wish I'd dumped the lot of them decades ago.

I want to say something that I can't say in many places. My parents are dead, I've ditched my narcissistic sister and I'M SO HAPPY.

On the flip side this is the only thread where someone can say someone has died and we don't know whether to send a sympathy card or offer to throw them a party 😅. In your case, as weird as it feels to type it -
🎉🎊✨ congratulations!✨🎊🎉

Oh god yes the arguments about anything. I had the same as you but, when my dad on various Friday nights, got his suitcase to leave I’d cry and beg him to stay so I did upset and pleading when it got bad rather than clowning. Mine could both turn though, if they were not stressed things were ok but if they were then crikey!

I've come out of Mumsnet retirement with a new name and just wanted to say hello!
I am one of those whose childhood looked picture-perfect on the outside but with bucketfuls of emotional abuse thrown in for good measure, mainly from my mum who has always had narcissistic tendencies, I think.
She is now in a care home with advancing Alzheimer's but still managing to hoodwink everyone into thinking she's a delightful old lady! She isn't.
I am keeping my contact to a minimum but NC isn't an option for me personally (no disrespect to those who are NC but I have so much ingrained FOG at this point!) so I am so glad to have found somewhere people will understand and not look at me as if I'm crazy for not looking after her myself!
I feel as if I am grieving for the fact that she will never be the mother I needed and whilst I am learning to mother myself and I have broken the cycle with my own kids, I still feel sad even though I rarely have any positive feelings towards her! It's very confusing!

stripymug I provided quite a bit of care for my now dead parents and I regret it, they didn't really deserve my time. I didn't have the guts to go NC and I regret that too.

Being a bit brutal here but does she still know who you are? If not, what's the difference between you and professional care giver?

Someone said to me once 'just because you're asked a question it doesn't mean that you have to answer it'. You know your reasons for not doing more, your friends will understand and strangers don't matter.