December 2024 - but we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

New thread

Right I’m off now to try and live a little with all this info. I’ve taken enough of this thread I’m mindful of that. Thanks for all the help. I hope I have said something useful to someone along the way. Much love ❤️ 🤞

So a lot of the family discourse that's happening doesn't directly involve you? It's BIL and MIL having their own conversations that you aren't part of?

How do you even know these conversations are happening?

It’s on group chat pinging 100s of times a day when it could be on a personal one. DHs phone now pings as I deleted it. We are then verbally told. Anyway I’m going to go away now for a bit. I’ve really appreciated all of your help but I don’t want to take up too much thread space anymore. Time to detach and carry on and see if it improves. ❤️

@NoCureForLove thank you so much for remembering and for responding, it means a lot. Sorry everyone else for intruding.

You're not intruding @CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau . I don't know your story (just your latest post) but I'm glad you escaped. I hope you can recover from it all and build a better life now. Congratulations on your sobriety too.

Good luck @Happyfarm I hope it works out for you.

thought I’d post on here as feeling down about a few things and want to pick myself up. I was the scapegoat dc. About 5 years ago I decided I was going to stick up for myself. I said to my mother enough was enough. She then turned on me and said she never wanted to speak to me again and she would be disinheriting me. Sorry this is long

after this conversation I cried and sobbed and fell back on myself as the ‘bad’ dd, I must have done something wrong blah blah. Anyway what happened next almost ruined my life.

she picked up the phone and started ringing anyone she could, every member of my family, my neighbours who were friends with my boss, my dc childminder, my friends from decades ago who I didn’t even talk to, ex boyfriends, she told everyone I had been abusing her all this time.

the bit that almost ruined me was almost everyone believed her. She always acted charming, was giving gifts all the time even though I never received anything from her on things like birthdays/christmas. She is a tiny lady, how could this small lovely lady do any wrong kind of vibes. I stayed quiet hoping things would blow over but they didn’t they got much worse. Family members started picking points about the times they’d witnessed me and mother having arguments, telling me I was always the bad dd. Those arguments were things she had deliberately set a teenager up to behave badly in front of people (she’d hide my things on purpose, make me late for classes etc) she hit me often including in public but would make sure no one saw her, forced me to eat moldy food. She broke objects hitting me with them, then would punish me for ‘breaking the item’. she forced me to clean the house over and over, she liked to make me crawl under the bed to clean and would hit my feet while I was under there.

my two golden sisters backed her up even when it was all pure lies. I lost my whole family. A friend came to me and told me what my mum was saying. I told my friend it’s lies and she said she believed me, we stayed friends. Unfortunately I recently found out that friend (whose mum is friends with my mum), has been sending my mum updates about my life and dc. Pictures videos etc. she knew I didn’t want any contact anymore, I’d already taken myself off of all social media. My trust is broken in everyone. My neighbours were friends with my boss. I got scared and left my job before anything could spill over into my work.

I have moved three times now since this happened. I am so blessed everyday that I even managed to move countries.

anyway I’m sorry this has been so long. I have lost all of my friends and family. I am hurting so much today. Some days I wonder if I should tell my extended family the truth as a way of sticking up for myself even if they don’t believe me. I’ve never stuck up for myself. They only heard her side and I suppose had no reason to believe otherwise .

But most days I just try to push it behind me. I am working on making new connections but it’s hard. I miss my life. I am not even sure if I’d go through all this again. Some days I wish I could be back to being the scapegoat, back to a time I had friends and other family and wasn’t so alone.

@pufferfishy my honest advice is block all of them, don't underestimate your extended family enjoying the gossip and so grateful it is aimed at you and not them.
My mum at the end of her life was small and frail but as a mother she was a monster. She acted all meek and fake humble but she was really twisted. I also moved abroad. Don't go back, it doesn't get better, my experience was my mum got worse with age. These mothers love to play favouritism playing everyone off against each other to retain control.
You have done the hard bit by leaving, build your own life, loneliness hurts but will pass. You will make new friends that are not stained. My mum did the ring round it was so embarrassing, you learn not to give a shit.
Luckily my friends knew what a bitch she was but explaining to business suppliers my mum was batshit and never to give her my contact info was difficult but many had experienced similar. You will be surprised how common it is.
Edited to say;
When she is old and needs someone to wipe her arse, you can laugh at her, she has golden daughters for that. My sister had 10 years of my mums bullshit x

@pufferfishy What you describe is textbook: you stood up to your mother and she immediately started a smear campaign and had no trouble recruiting flying monkeys. These monkeys were already under her spell, but I am especially sorry that your friend betrayed you like that.

I hope there is a glimmer in you that still knows that you are NOT the problem. Abusers don't tend to get ostracised like you. They usually have a gullible network because of the tactics they employ.

I hear you, it is hard. I have lost everything too. Sometimes it helps knowing that we aren't the only ones. It is absolutely fantastic that you have managed to bring the physical distance between you and your family. I hope you feel a bit better soon. Knowing that you are on your own is a horrible feeling, but you are better off without them and better days will come.

I just wanted to say what a good few days I’ve had. Things have really been filtering in, all the helpful things I’ve been told. I wanted to write incase any of it is useful to someone. What I’ve realised is a narcissist person will take from you anything which you are willing to give and not care how this effects you. Someone like me who was raised pretty much co-dependant is a perfect. They squash the ability of their children to gain self esteem outside of them leaving their kids entirely dependent on them to fill this. They don’t teach us that we can build self esteem from ourselves, experiences, friends, clubs, extended family, volunteering, life etc. This is why it’s so important to let your kids go and experience things so that they can grow the self esteem within themselves independently. This is what I’m looking into. Groups and hobbies and friends where I can exist and be myself and feel good and do good. Hope everyone is well!

@pufferfishy i understand how hard it is to lose family and friends because of lies I have to i don't know what lies my dsis has been telling people about me and it makes me sad they believe her but they only have her side of the story and haven't bothered to hear mine

I have lost everyone except dh dc and his side of the family which I am not as close to she had dm cut me out of her will and destroyed my relationship and my dc relationship with dm which is sad as she's elderly and i don't know how long she will still be with us

I just hope everything comes out in the open one day as to what dsis has been doing

@pufferfishy sorry for waffling on your situation is different to mine as your dm was abusive to you as a child so I would just stay nc and let your golden child siblings deal with her in her old age.

@Spendysis yes it’s hard. @binkie163 thanks for saying it’s probably best not to make contact. I think you’re right. I was having a bad day the other day but I’ve decided it’s best to continue to work on myself and move forward.
Sorry to anyone else going through this sort of thing too.

Hello, lovely fellowship,
I wanted to pop and ask a question for those of you who have older/adult daughters: have you ever had a talk with them? How do you explain your mother to your daughter/s?

And on a similar note: how do you cope with feeling rootless? 😞

Thank you in advance 💐

Hello @FriendlyReminder on you second question: I feel like I'm at the start of coping feeling rootless, but I keep imagining that I will form new habits, new traditions and make new memories and this will then become my 'new past'.

I'm doing all this very slowly, as I am still learning who I actually am (as opposed to what I was told) so I'm figuring out what I would like to do and what my future will look like. I would like to connect more with other humans, hopefully feel a sense of belonging (which I dont) but I still struggle with this.

I feel like my whole past has been wiped out. I have lost everyone and even the 'good bits' now don't feel like they were ever good. I lived a lie in a parallel universe that took me decades to flee from. I feel like I'm just waking up to real life and as though I have just reached consciousness.

Good morning @Twatalert and thank you so much for your input 💐 you've put into words a persistent feeling that's been nagging me constantly: "I feel like my whole past has been wiped out. I have lost everyone and even the 'good bits' now don't feel like they were ever good. I lived a lie in a parallel universe that took me decades to flee from".
It's so difficult to come to terms with this for me... Especially because since being a child I've always been interested in history and genealogy. From a very young age I asked so many questions about my family, my ancestors. My mum, dad and aunts would all tell me stories about their childhoods, and It truly felt so special to me, that feeling of belonging to a transcendent line of people across time... I feel like I've been cast out from that, ostracised from my own linneage, if that makes sense? Information is withholded from me concerning relatives (I live 250 miles from my place of birth): my mother has absolute control of the narrative and I'm sure paints me as uninterested in anything related to my family.
I also lack referents: nobody in my family has moved away from the little town we're from.
I really struggle to find my own narrative, one that makes sense and is True and can be passed on to my daughters. They are still very young, but I don't know how to explain to them that I had to move away from my roots so I could be able to even have them...
And, like you say Twatalert this is just part of a general struggle to know who I am.

@FriendlyReminder how old are they? I have heard people tell their kids that they had to move away in order to be safe. No specific examples given.

I have yet to make new connections with people and somehow dive into the topic of who I am and where I came from. I struggle to tell anyone new that I am estranged. Because people just can't understand it and they don't know how to respond.

Just last week my boss asked me in a catch up if I 'went home' for Christmas. I said no, and weirdly I smiled when I said it as in the moment I felt this relief that I finally stopped playing their game, but I could see in his face that he couldn't compute it and didn't know what to think or say. I doubt his mind went to estrangement. Most people just can't think it. I just hoped he'd stop asking any further.

Tbh I struggle to talk about the past. Just things people talk about, you know when they say 'my mum used to do x' or 'when we were kids'. It's not even that I get emotional, I just can't relate to my past. I have no fond memories. I'm glad it's all over. But I wonder what it must feel like to have good childhood memories and dig them up in conversations. I have no desire to ever say anything on that.

@Twatalert oh they are both little, under 5 years old. I'm low contact with my parents and sibling but they don't know it mainly because they are not interested in my life. They never have been, but less so since I moved to my current city, got married and had my daughters. It's as if they genuinely believe I don't exist outside of what they project onto me. Therefore, if I'm not there to follow the assigned role in the panto, they don't even see me.
I keep in touch because I more or less can afford it emotionally and because family has always been important to me and wanted my children to grow up with extended family.

That's why is such a shock to me having to adjust my "personality" with my current reality. And hence my doubts: how do I "justify" moving away from my family/roots when I've always been such a family oriented person?
Of course the answer is "because I was drowning and needed to survive". I couldn't have stayed in my "home"town and have a life of my own. So this was my choice, and I pay a price for it.
But yes: like you, I feel it's so difficult to convey to people that you moved away "without a reason" (mind you, my husband isn't from here neither, so I don't have that "excuse"). I feel like I need an alibi!
As for the questions: being LC myself makes it "easier" to answer others' questions. This Christmas I could just smile politely and say "oh, we are all very busy and we'll meet after the holidays". In general I've found that people really doesn't care that much.
I assume when you are fully NC, it is harder to deal with the nosiness or genuine interest of those close to you (but not close enough to know the full story). Do you live far from your family of origin? Do you have friends who know the full story?

I went NC with my parents when my daughter was 17. Prior to that I'd been (I thought) careful never to leave her alone with them and to protect he from the worst of their behaviour (which I did my best to laugh off).

When I went NC I said to her that I'd tried for years to have a proper relationship with my parents but I'd now given up due to their controlling and judgemental behaviour. I told her she was free to continue a relationship and I would even support it.

DD's response was to say that she had been aware of their behaviour for years, she didn't like them, and she only came on visits to support me. :(

I think DC pick up more than we realise :) TikTok is also a force for good - DD was more aware of narcissism than I was.

My parent never made any attempt to get in touch with DD until they wanted to know her A Level results (source of bragging for them), which I think speaks volumes.

In terms of being rootless - I realise I never had roots, so don't miss what I never had (although I wistfully think about having it sometimes). I focus on my DH and DC, and a few good friends as my "roots".

Thank you @immersedinfog 💐 Ah, that's good to know your daughter got the situation. To me it sounds like she was (is) a very emotionally smart and resilient girl: I'm sure thanks to your efforts in protecting her. Did she feel resentful that you kept in touch with them?
I keep fearing a heartbreak when my eldest realises they are not genuinely interested in her (just, like your family, in the things of her they can brag about). But then my daughters are very little, so I can't really visualize how it'll be in the future. Your example calms me because I feel that my daughters may be very able to see the problem with their own eyes and so they can understand the situation...

I have not gone nc with mine just stopped making an effort and finally realising g they have never been interested in me or my children. Children are wise they will see it at a young age my daughter aged 7 said she thought grandma was mean and granddad was miserable which pretty much sums it up
up , they won’t miss mean people x

I always felt that my parents lost interest in me when I got to about age 8/9 and started having a bit more of a mind of my own and was less interested in having an adult play with me.

They repeated the pattern with my own children. This both validated my own experience, and gave me a point at which I started watching my children more.

I've subsequently read that this is quite textbook narcissistic parent behaviour.

You may have similar points in your own life, that you can draw on as a guide.

My DD understands the reasons why I kept in touch with my parents for so long, and, I think, is sympathetic, and always tried to get on well with them.

My DS (2 years older than DD) is less forgiving. He has heavily disliked them since he was 8 (see my points above re age triggers!) and has essentially grey rocked since then even before he knew what grey rock was. In hindsight, i feel incredibly guilty that I forced him to maintain a relationship that I knew he disliked for the "benefit" of my parents. If I could have my time again, I would listen more carefully to my children. But at the time I was still fully immersed in the toxic family background, so don't know if it could ever have ben possible.

Children are definitely more perceptive than you think. My kids hate my mil and will have nothing to do with her. Have always given her a wide berth at events when I’ve forced them to go when they were little. Now they just say to me “why do you let her treat you like that?” ……. It’s because she’s my DHs mum. But I am learning, and that really is thanks to my children. And this thread!
Since Our Christmas Day debacle I’ve managed to dodge my Mil, she’s fuming…… I have grabbed the dog and gone upstairs whilst she’s been yelling at the front door…. I’ve not given in……. She left

@FriendlyReminder I think you might be projecting a bit onto your kids. The roots etc has been important to you and you have had an interest in genealogy, but I doubt your kids care at their age. They might start to wonder as they get older, but it isn't certain at all that it will ever be a heavy subject for them or anything you will need to convince them of having been necessary to do. They will grow up knowing no different and as long as they have other relationships they may not see such a big issue.

I moved to another country in my mid 20, so almost 20 years ago, but in my head I was still very much attached to my family. My thinking and doing was driven by how I thought others (my mother) might judge me. I lived in total fear for much of my life. Severing this emotional tie was extremely painful. Yes, a couple of friends know the full picture, but tbh I don't think they have any understanding of what you go through when you go NC. It's inconceivable for most people. If I struggle I come here, I don't go to them. I prefer to share my sadness with people who have actively reflected on their upbringing or all I will get will be platitudes.

I'm fascinated by the conversation about responses to others twat and friendly. I'd never thought of it as being a difficult situation like that. I'm thinking maybe I'm a little simplistic with it and that you don't feel the same way for some reason, but I'll throw this out there in case it's helpful to you or anyone else.

What's wrong with the truth?

I haven't been "home" for Christmas for a decade. If people ask my plans I tell them I spend Christmas in my own home but visit some relatives nearby for an hour or two. I don't feel any need to mention estrangement or the difficult family dynamics.

Who are you justifying moving away from your home town to? You don't have to justify to anyone. Saying you were ready for a new adventure would do for a reason.

I grew up mostly without an extended family. They were on the periphery, if at all, and few visits. I feel mild curiosity about it from time to time and have done some basic genealogy work to get an overview, as a hobby really. Not because I have a burning desire to know. We don't see them because we don't get along is all the explanation a child needs IMO. To others, I don't have a family, would do. Some are deceased and some I've never been close to. Nobody's ever displayed awkwardness whenever I've said this.

I do have some happy childhood memories but they mostly don't involve my family, it's friends and hobbies and pets. So I'll happily mention these things and leave out the bad. I can also say neutral stuff like my dad spending Sundays fixing whatever was wrong with the car this time because they always had old ones and sneakily feeding the sandwich to the birds because grandma put too much butter on it. If there's literally nothing good at all you could always say it was an unhappy childhood but you dreamed of eg a house and husband of your own and now you have it so you're content.

I've always felt rootless so I suppose I'm used to the feeling and it doesn't really bother me. My roots are the ones I've laid down for myself in life, the homes I've created, the friends I've made, the things I've done. Also yes the hometown I grew up in but not so much the family I was part of. I love my hometown and sometimes miss it, my family I'm indifferent to though.

Just marking my spot

@SamAndAnnie Maybe you are right, but then you said you might say you will visit a couple of relatives. It's not something I could say because it isn't accurate.

When everyone around you has family to go on holiday with or spend Christmas together it is a little hard to realise that I don't have that and I have no substitute for it. And family can be your partner or your own children. I don't remember your situation now, but I would think it isn't hard to understand that this kind of change is difficult for many.