December 2024 - but we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

New thread

This thread continues to be so enlightening. I recognise the interrogation, the who were you with, what did you do. And when you don't want to share they get annoyed, say things like 'well, what's wrong with asking' or 'what is so bad about telling me'. My mother is exactly like that.

It’s been incredibly valuable, more so for all the children of the adults who’ve been raised in unhealthy relationships. I know my kids are going to fair better because of this thread. Before I wouldn’t have known a healthy relationship if it came up and bit me in the arse!

What I think other people don't get is that although the questions are often initially innocuous and normal, like what did you do last weekend/how was your holiday, the overall conversation isn't because as soon as you tell them something personal, it's weaponised against you, so you are on guard right from the off.

The version of this I've started to realise that my enabler often mother did was that she used situations to offer 'help' but that she wanted total control over what the 'help' looked like, and if you didn't accept it, she got really angry/hurt and said why won't you listen to her/do what she wants. And if you tried to explain why, she wouldn't listen anyway. Helping = getting her own way. And so I avoid her because I don't want to he 'helped' (or to help her force her help on other people). It's all arse backwards.

Not respecting the child's right to privacy/ a life with parts they aren't involved in seems a common issue.

@CheekySnake yes, a person that hasn't been abused cannot understand how loaded the questions can be.

My mother had no interest in me and these weren't genuine questions to connect with me. I also know how they gossip. I have witnessed how she fishes for information in others and once they are on their own there would be a big evaluation of persons xyzs business. The times I wanted to share something with her she was not interested. I knew she was never genuinely happy for me, but would enjoy any mishaps in mine or others life.

A person that hasn't been abused cannot understand how infuriating it is to grow up like this and that most things are not totally innocent.

I wonder if this is where the unhealthyness comes in and is misplaced. If you know everything you can protect them and guide them away from trouble only what you do is stifle their ability to make their own decisions. Do people with trauma perhaps parent trying to avoid bad things happening to their children when what they are doing is trying to stop their kids from triggering feelings in them. They have placed too much comfort in control?

@Twatalert My mother does the same thing, which means I'm always on guard during seemingly ordinary conversations. There was never any actual interest or concern about what goes on in my life; all information is just gossip-fodder to her. I've heard her spend the entire day on the phone, ringing one person after another, spreading gossip about each person to the next. She'll embellish and make up stories as she goes. Occasionally I call her out for it, and she starts crying and says I'm bullying her.

Her sister is the same, and they egg each other on, like two bitchy school-girls who never grew out of it. I have a female cousin who is deeply affected by her mum's behaviour, so we talk about it and tell each other all the stuff we can't tell our mothers. For some reason our brothers are oblivious or unaffected by it. Reading your post, and others like it, it amazes me how common this dysfunctional behaviour is. I don't really understand what my mum and aunt get from it. They could have healthy relationships with their daughters, but they'd rather spread gossip about us to anyone who'll listen.

Fuck me, not being rude but has your husband only just noticed there is a problem with his mum and her behavior!
As @AttilaTheMeerkat said, he is the scapegoat and by extension you and your children but especially you and 1st daughter. You shouldn't be asking for her to be included, you need to keep her away from them. Your not wanting to go and play with the fabulous wonderful Mil is entirely your prerogative, wtf would you tag along to be kicked and have the piss taken out of you. His family, his problem.....or not!

Thanks all. I'm so sorry that this has been other people's experiences too; and it's such a mindfuck to have something which is ostensibly couched in terms of care and interest be anything but.

@binkie163 You're right - I think grey rock just isn't working when DM starts working on something like a dog with a bone, and bluntness is one route forward.

@AttilaTheMeerkat Re NC: yes, it's mainly for family. My DN is under 10 and after they were born, we started doing more stuff as a family together. I know sibling finds parents as difficult as I do, but also wants to show a complete family together for DN; sibling's partner is not from UK so they don't have support from in-laws around DN, babysitting etc. But I do need to have a word with sibling about it. I love sibling + their partner + DN dearly, but was much happier when I had less contact with parents.

@CheekySnake 'I don't want to talk about it' is excellent, thank-you. Like you, I don't trust her at all not to share my private info or use it as a weapon. I do see my sibling without parents, but as above, sibling wants to have complete family things too. The fact that she cannot understand or respect my right to privacy is actually really fucked up, now I think about it!

and yes! to being 'helpful'. You've just reminded me of a time when I had to be at my parents en route to see another friend in the same town. DF offered to drive me there, I said thank-you but no, is quicker to walk. DM got into a complete lather about times, safety, when we should leave, roads, etc etc etc that had nothing to do with me getting from point A to B and everything to do with her inserting herself into a situation that is nothing to do with her, and making it all about her.

@Twatalert (excellent name). It's never about actual interest, is it? DM professes a huge interest in DN and yet when sibling announced the pregancy (first grandchild, I have no children). DM listened for half a second then veered off into an anecdote about someone she'd known once and their baby and blah blah blah.

I’m beginning to think he’s a lost cause. One little hoover and he’s sucked back up. It’s not the life I want to live having to tip toe and manage all this. It’s not looking good really.

Grey rock doesn't really work with people you are supposed to be close to, there are alternative strategies for managing but they are hard work, and you can end up feeling a bit weary of being in an inauthentic relationship.

If you move away enough emotionally from the narcissist that they can no longer hurt your feelings, it unfortunately can mean you have also moved away from people who stay close to them.

@threeheadeddog when my brother and his wife were expecting they phoned me. A day or so later they made the 5hr drive to my parents to tell them. I happened to be on the phone when they told them and my mother got pissed off that I knew before her. I'm sure she never forgave me lol.

In hindsight I can see her narcissism so clearly. She thought she needed to be the first to be informed (why?) and couldn't stand that they told me earlier. I should have come second or last or whatever. My mother has this need to be the main person for everyone in the immediate family. If others are around she'll feign shyness and humbleness.

I honestly feel a bit sorry for your husband. It's not an easy situation to be in. You don't like his family, they don't like you, they won't do what you want, you won't do what they want and all he wants is the easiest route through.

We see time and time again on this thread just how difficult it is to minimise or even break contact with parents, even if they're absolutely horrible. It's really hard. It takes time. And it can be very difficult to see their behaviour clearly, or to know what you want, if you've spent a lifetime being told that what you want is either wrong or irrelevant or both.

You obviously love your husband so find a way round his family. In the same way we don't need to be included in everything, friends, sport, hobbies etc. tell him life is too short to be around people who want to belittle you, send him off to play with his mummy while you have time with daughter, out shopping, coffee with friends, you don't need to be joined at the hip, grown up people are able to do things solo. You don't have to like all the same things, he needs to grow up tbh he can just tell mummy you are busy or have better things to do like stick red hot needles in your eyes before you spend another minute in her company. My husband struggled to tell his family I didn't want to play with them [30 years ago], I said either you tell them or I will and that won't go well! He needs to manage his boundaries with mummy ❤️ you have already decided you don't want to play.

So what’s the answer?

My guess is there isn’t one.

And that we simplify have to put up with it in some form. As for most, the price of no contact ripples into relationships that they cherish….

@CheekySnake I feel sorry also but I have 2 small children to think about. He should be doing this also. I can’t have a third child to worry about all the time. Ive put his needs before us all for 5 years to try and build a relationship but it hasn’t worked unfortunately with his parents. I don’t know how to help this going forward in a way where I’m not completely ostracising myself from him.

@binkie163 my boundaries are pushing him back to his mum. When he says to her I don’t want to come she plants that this is because I’m trying to make him choose and he believes it. She then uses my past relationship as further cement. But I can’t control any of what he wants to believe,
so be it really.

@Happyfarm do you want him to choose?

@Happyfarm the truth is she is making him choose and he chooses her every time. Would he rather live with his parents? Because that is the end game if shit hits the fan and he won't allow you to have your own space and identity.

Get back on board with your positive post that you need to get yourself emotionally strong for your kids. You can't control them but they also don't control you. We don't have to explain ourselves when we say no, no means no.

Example. Lol me and a friend;
Friend do you wanna go see Abba in Paris 300+accommodation & travel. Me no.
Why? I don't like Abba
It will be fun
No
Don't you want to spend time with me 🤷
Yes but if I'm spending that much and staying over I want to see foo fighters.... friend but I don't like foofighters ......ffs go see who you want and let me do what I want. It is ok to want other things or risk me punching you in the face.

It is not our job to facilitate others or be useful to them, that includes friends and family.

No, I want him to listen and acknowledge my feelings without telling me I’m causing him distress (which is what he is doing). To say ok I’ll go along and you stay do something nice. I don’t like him scapegoating me which is exactly what they are doing. It feels abusive and dismissive and I don’t like it.

@Happyfarm what does he do when he scapegoats you?

@Happyfarm
I don’t think you’ll ever win. This is a circular argument where neither of you will ever understand/ see the others point of view.
Unless of course something massive happens. But his mother is far too clever to allow for that…..

Im in the same position with my mil, I’m luckier than you in that my DH does see her games. But she still has this weird hold over the family. My children are older and won’t play, I’m slowly learning, but it’s really hard. I don’t have any advice for you, just understanding and sympathy

Hi gets frustrated and stroppy and ignores me. He often just brings up my past and will say something like you have a thing don’t you. I think I do have a thing, I thing for choosing immature men. I can’t voice a single thing about anything really without being dismissed and oh it’s just “Laura”. It drives me bonkers. I can’t agree with everything all the time.

Thanks it’s bloody awful.

It sounds like you're in an unhealthy pattern with your OH 😐

Does he accept that there's an issue in your relationship with his mother, or does he just say it's your fault/there's something wrong with you/you're seeing things that aren't there?

I'm guessing you always accommodated him and his family, his getting stroppy always put you back in line and he wants his old doormat back.
The slightly rebellious new you is not working for him.