December 2024 - but we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

New thread

@Happyfarm isn't it arrogant to assume you can control whether people care about you, though? I get that it's a survival instinct when we are children but as adults, we have to accept that we don't have that power.

@SamAndAnnie ia free with not causing unnecessary upset, but I think we have to be careful how we define unnecessary.

I also recognised what you were saying about being expected to be a shoulder for a parent to cry on. As I understand it, it's a form of parentification, and it's another way of making us responsible for their emotions - our job to be the support and make them feel better. But that's never an appropriate thing to ask of a child.

Yes I definitely agree it’s unhealthy. I think arrogance is knowing you are doing it and doing it on purpose. I’m not saying the outcome is any different but doing something that you have never known differently is maybe a different word, maybe immature.

Ive taken on board I have been behaving like this not knowing any differently. Which has been pointed out on here and its been eye opening for me.

@Happyfarm when I first saw the behaviour explained in that way it changed so much. I just hadn't thought about it in those terms at all. But once I understood it, it made things so much easier because feeling responsible for how other feel and trying to engineer certain emotions for them is something I'm doing, and therefore I can change it. I think often as people pleasers we can't see the negativity in our own behaviour because we're aiming for a positive outcome - make them happy, make them less stressed, carry the load, make them like us. But really it's no different to trying to not make them upset.

If we are responsible for our own feelings then other people are responsible for theirs

@CheekySnake I think you turned a huge corner over xmas, your mum was exposed for who she is and will always be. Your husband will not want to make that mistake again.
Allowing others to spoil our happy time because they want to is giving them the power. Self care is not selfish.
Robin Norwood 'women who love too much' is about people pleasing and how detrimental it is, it is always going to backfire because you are hoping for a good outcome when past experience tells you it wont xx

@Happyfarm New year, new you. xx

Interestingly I haven't heard from her since she left. Not a single message.

It has left me feeling (which I've suspected for a while anyway) that we are a remnant from a time in her life she'd rather forget.

I do feel responsible for how people feel but I do find it has become self serving. Arrogance is believing you should because you are entitled and superior. I’ve never wanted to be superior I’ve only ever sought to be equally seen. In my abusive marriage it was to stop the abuse, in my childhood it was to create no waves because my mum couldn’t cope with it. I always try and squash myself into a box to be accepted and then get really annoyed. Fuck it really I’m tired of trying to not take up space for fear. I think being ignored is a good thing, it means we have to find a good life and it’s much better than being enmeshed. It is a scary thought and it’s not what I’ve wanted but it’s better than what I have been doing.

I think leaving my abusive marriage and loosing my dad (my best friend) at the same time, my only sense of belonging in this world really knocked me six. I’ve been trying to replace that feeling with this family and not seen it for what it is.

Thanks. I’m a bit sad but it is what it is and I have so much to hold onto.

Sadness will pass xx

@CheekySnake huge win, radio silence from the mother because you didn't let her get away with her bullshit.

I have one more question. I don’t really get how my partner Is ok with the way they behave towards him. It’s absolutely his choice tho. Does it just become normal? His brother is given everything and he gets scraps. Yet he actively promotes his brother and talks that he deserves the attention more. It makes me sad because my partner is a really great guy and deserves attention from his family. I worry about his hoarding and I’ve wondered if this is the outlet for all his feelings. I have many feelings about things and my partner seems to have no feelings about anything. He can’t even make a choice between two things without seeking someone’s advice. I’ve wondered if self sufficiency by force makes people hoard? He has taken on the role of independent man but he has not done so by choice.

Take a step back here. His relationship with them is his business. If at the moment he accepts how things are, that's his choice. Otherwise you're trying to get him to do what you haven't been able to do, which is have what you consider to be an acceptable relationship with his family.

It's the same problem with different players, that's all.

His family are not your problem to solve.

Maybe deal with the hoarding if it's a problem within your relationship and home.

It’s definitely his business. He does have a problem and he got so far as to be told by a really good old friend of his that he has attachment issues and then stopped looking for advice. I enable it but it’s driving me bonkers having so much stuff. Downside of having unhealthy behaviours yourself is that you end up attracting others with them until you realise and then often to deep. Will leave it as any attempt to talk is met with silence.

@Happyfarm I found that as I changed my husband noticed how much happier I was and waaaaay less stressed. He may slowly follow your lead, he may start to notice stuff or he may want to keep things the way they are. Some people sit in poop because it is warm.
Concentrate on you and the kids once you are all settled and happier it will be more noticeable that you are not obsessing about his family. You may have to accept he won't change and then deal with that at a latter time x

@Happyfarm he may be in some form of denial. He's also used to this behaviour so it doesn't seem as bad to him. Denial is there to stop him seeing clearly, because for whatever reason he doesn't have the capacity now to seek change. Hes probably very emotionally intertwined with them.

If it doesn't bother him enough and he doesn't get a taste of what things could be like instead he isn't likely to seek out changes.

Ok. I suppose it’s up to me to make sure I’m emotionally healthy as I can be for my kids because I don’t think he will be able to protect them from this. He certainly hasn’t protected me and I haven’t protected myself so far. My eldest has already started to notice something going on. In our family we don’t treat anyone differently so in a way the fact that she can spot this in them is a good thing. What I have to learn is how to teach her resilience and self esteem and who cares because we are great on our own!

Hi all, I have posted here on and off over the years, unfortunately I am back. Some of you may have seen my ‘crap Christmas day’ thread - essentially DM had a bottle of wine and laid into my DH. We have a three month old and he has been nothing less than a fantastic father and excellent support to me. It was so nasty and unwarranted of her.

She has done similar to me and my DF over the years but it has always been brushed under the carpet. I always explain how she’s hurt me and ask for apologies but she either flies off the handle again or ignores me for weeks.

Because this time it’s been aimed at my DH (and she made our DS cry with her shouting), it feels different. We know we won’t get an apology so she isn’t welcome in our house again. And I am done with pretending all is okay. She was rude and disrespectful and it can’t be swept under the carpet this time.

The problem is, I want to be able to see my DF - and for DS to have a relationship with his grandfather - but I don’t know how we can practically achieve this. They live nearly two hours’ drive away, and DF can’t drive any more. So I will have to visit their house - but DM will be there. I’m worried if I see her and she pretends all is well, I will reiterate that she hurt us and needs to apologise, and she will start a row again. In front of the baby.

Does anyone have any experience of navigating this please?

The problem is, he’s enabling her. My FIL was like this, apparently meek and mild……anything for an easy life. He never stood up for my DH or myself when MIL went off on one, he just shrugged and ignored. It’s taken me over 25 years to realise he was actually just as bad but in a different way

Absolutely, he is enabling her. But over the years, he’s been physically and emotionally abused by her, been at the receiving end of her nastiness etc. He did have his reasons for staying which I understand and have sympathy with.

@darkmodereactivated If you want to visit you can stay at a hotel or if they visit you they need to stay at a hotel.

I follow a Zoe Louise on tik tok, she has the exact same scenario and this is what they do. It means she's LC with both, but only in contact because she wants contact with her father.

That is the first positive post from you. 💖

I would cease feeling sorry for him and give him both barrels.

Your dad continues to act out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He’s chosen her. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all and need a willing enabler to help them, this is your dad. And he’s her secondary abuser.

He has also failed you as a parent by being both unable and unwilling to protect your from the excesses of his wife’s behaviour. He would rather you cop her barbs than he. He is a weak bystander of a man.

Do not see him on their home turf because your mother will always be there and he will not do anything to facilitate a relationship. He is really not worth bothering about.

dark mode reactivated

People like your mother never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. And your dad has not either. His reasons for staying with her are spurious ones and their relationship is an unhealthy codependency. @And your dad will continue to take her side despite being abused himself. He has also failed you as a parent.

Children need emotionally healthy grandparents and neither of your parents here fit the bill. Do not facilitate your husband and child to be in the same room as them. Why would you do that to them?. You do not have to visit their house, that’s your sense of obligation talking. You have physical distance, you need far more mental distance.

@AttilaTheMeerkat is absolutely right.
I truly wish I knew all this before subjecting my children to years of abuse. It wasn’t until they grew up and saw it for themselves that we backed away.
We’re still struggling but getting there

@darkmodereactivated its a really tough one. I always felt sorry for my poor old dad, everyone did, being married to such an unstable woman (both were alcoholics) when I realized that he was manipulative in his own way, it was really hard for me to accept. We would do contact but it always ended in him wanting me to talk to mum, smooth things over. Unfortunately the dominant spouse rules the roost, he wont risk stepping out of line. Does he also drink heavily? if your mum is doing a bottle of wine and going on the attack, its not good for kids to witness. I have zero tolerance for alcoholics.