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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

You never know what goes on behind closed doors…

337 replies

Butterscotchcloudstangerine · 27/11/2024 23:03

Namechanged.

My marriage isn’t in the best place, and this has been the case for some time. One thing I sometimes think about is how we look from the outside and how most people think DH is such a lovely man - generous, kind, funny, outgoing. He can be all of those things to me, sometimes, and it’s largely how he comes across to the outside world.

But behind doors it’s often different. He’s snappy, mean, and critical. He just lost his temper (again) over a very minor thing tonight, and I am sitting here thinking about what friends and colleagues would say if they saw him behaving like such a dick. I’m not just talking about how we ‘let our guard down’ at home btw, it’s worse. He’s not abusive as such, but just behaving like an asshole.

It’s probably getting worse as he ages, and right now I’m questioning our future. I’m not here for advice on whether or not to leave him as such, but I’m more curious as to if anyone has experienced similar, this ‘outside/inside’ behaviour? My closest know I’m not very happy, and once or twice they’ve seen him get snappy or critical - however, they don’t know the full extent. I can’t even bring myself to tell them some of the comments/behaviour, I am not sure why when they are all loving and supportive.

anyone know what I’m talking about?

OP posts:
Gaz98 · 28/11/2024 09:31

Walkacrossthesand · 28/11/2024 00:05

Street angel, hearth devil, my gran used to call it.

Ha my grandad used to say the same !

pimplebum · 28/11/2024 09:32

This is abuse, it’s not going to get better and you deserve happiness, not walking on eggshells

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 28/11/2024 09:33

My mum’s former partner. Alcoholic, verbal abuse, almost physical abuse, more that I won’t talk about.

Went to his funeral years after we got out (only went to support a family member)

He used to sit in a corner of the local pub and tell tales, collect glasses in exchange for beer etc. my god, the amount of people singing his praises ‘oh what a lovely man’ etc. it honestly shook me and my mum so much.

Lifeomars · 28/11/2024 09:33

Walkacrossthesand · 28/11/2024 00:05

Street angel, hearth devil, my gran used to call it.

i love that, going to borrow it. There's a lot of them about, my dad was one, charm itself when out and about and a scary tyrant at home.

LovingBiscuit · 28/11/2024 09:33

My father was one too, though he was violent on top of the emotional/financial abuse and control. He also had a sob story childhood and used to trot that out occasionally to justify his behaviour. Well, I have a sob story childhood too, thanks to him, and I'm not punching my husband or bullying my children.

I wanted to ask, OP, what makes you think your situation isn't abuse?

MsNeis · 28/11/2024 09:35

BreadInCaptivity · 28/11/2024 00:46

What you have posted does not surprise me in the slightest.

Many men I have known in a professional capacity (especially successful ones) are very good at self promotion.

But, they do occasionally let the veneer slip and I've always wondered how they present at home.

It's sometimes (what they perceive) as "little" things like how they refer to their partner ("the wife/other half, never their name with an edge of distain) or make decisions without consultation "xx won't mind doing that" or "it's ok I'll get xx to sort it".

There is no way DH would "volunteer" me without consultation.

A big flag for me is when men talk about having to "babysit" their children if their partner is doing something and expect praise for their input. No. It's called parenting.

So what I would suggest is that as much as you think "the world" thinks your DH is a great person/husband I am not sure that is true.

Truth is most people are not going to say to you unprompted "I think you married an egotistical, self absorbed, nasty cunt".

Sure, there are some men can give an Oscar worthy performance of playing the best partner ever, but I think this is quite rare.

All that said, who cares what other people think/believe about your relationship? You need to think about what you want (and deserve).

Well said 👌

SensitivePetal · 28/11/2024 09:38

DHCommNarcName · 28/11/2024 09:13

That’s reassuring but what was it you noticed that you didn’t like ? What were the cues? I’m so scared that he will co-opt everyone into his narrative that I’m the abuser and he’s the victim.

I’m afraid in all likelihood he will and some weak or hoodwinked people will be taken in. There are a surprising number of women who are seemingly blind to the ways of the patriarchy and are male enablers. Men’s gullibility, I’m less surprised about.

But actually, it doesn’t matter. Your true friends will still be your friends, your family if any good will still love you as they have truly known you all your life, etc.

If you think he is likely to do this you can pre emptively tell people he is probably going to go full DARVO and explain to them what this means.

But really, you don’t need to do this and it’s part of the aftermath (hopefully) of abuse. Feeling like you have to defend, explain, be on guard etc.

potatocakesinprogress · 28/11/2024 09:41

Walkacrossthesand · 28/11/2024 00:05

Street angel, hearth devil, my gran used to call it.

In our family we say "Hitler had a rescue dog," as in, just because you can see someone doing a good thing doesn't mean they're a good person.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 28/11/2024 09:41

Butterscotch

What is your definition of abuse if not what you describe?. Abuse is not just physical in nature and does take many forms. You are being abused by your H and abuse also thrives on secrecy. You have indeed taken a small but important step in writing about this in here and that is to your credit.

(I know that phrase as street angel, house devil).

thebrollachan · 28/11/2024 09:50

My ex doesn't have enough self-control to do the whole 'devil at home, angel abroad' thing, so people usually get his measure after a while. He does, however, tell lies (I found out only the other day that he's been lying to a third party about something significant in our shared history). He thinks well of himself, so my theory is that he genuinely convinces himself of the false narrative he's created.

OneBlackHeart · 28/11/2024 09:51

Yup was married to one of these. He did get violent when I pushed back.

When I left him most people were fully on his side and fell for his act. But a couple told me they could see he was abusive and had that vibe from him- these women's had been abused themselves though. I think if you don't have experience or haven't witnessed how abusive men can be then it's hard to believe someone can live such an act.

What I will say is the judgment I received for leaving was a small price for the feeling of safety and being able to relax in my own home. Not walking on eggshells all the time is amazing

Uricon2 · 28/11/2024 09:53

My born 1890s grandmother used to say "street saint, home devil".

I think all the variants of this people have mentioned are due for a revival, because sadly the people it describes still very much exist.

Janie143 · 28/11/2024 10:00

medianewbie · 28/11/2024 00:13

I have just Divorced such a man after 23 years. He is SO kind to strangers, & so utterly horrible to me (& distant with his own children). Imo, the only reason he can function 'nicely' outside is because he parked all his bile on me. No more.

I could have written this but it took me 24 years. I'm sorry to say it is abusive behavior. The book PP recommended is an eye opener and explains it better than I can. I'm so sorry you are living like this OP. Don't be like us and let this man destroy you further 😞

WinterBones · 28/11/2024 10:01

my exH was like this... only with him, after a while the public mask started to slip, usually with people he worked with.

After i left him he got SO much worse, 8 years down the line he barely has any friends as without me around to point his bile at, he started taking it out on other people, his friends, his adult daughter.

He still thinks he is gods gift and its everyone else at fault.

CharityButtonhole · 28/11/2024 10:04

I’m sorry you’re going through this, I sympathise because I’m in the exact same situation. Debating whether I can put up with it anymore. I want to leave but I don’t want to lose our family home. I have come to realise that it is abuse, even if not physical. It’s emotional abuse and coercive control. Please just know that it’s not your fault that he’s treating you like that - I need to constantly remind myself of this.

Mrsgreen100 · 28/11/2024 10:05

I had 30 years of coercive control manipulated gaslighting, from my ex I threw them out in the end, everyone thought he was absolutely amazing so kind always for offering to help old ladies always a big smile et cetera et cetera in the house he was diminishing angry sulking sometimes physically violent all of which is somehow convinced me with my fault. I’m a smart woman. I’ve been in Business for 40 years. I cannot believe I love myself to put up with it.
Long story short turned out he was a covert narcissist the worst kind he had been financially abusing me for over 20 years and had women all over the place. He pretended to be a loving partner and father he was a thief of con man and a liar.
all of his behaviour I accommodated because he made me feel everything was my fault. I’m so glad to be free. I wish I hadn’t wasted so much of my life on a complete deadbeat.
The behaviour of these types gets worse as they get older when you’re in it you can’t see it because you’ve been manipulated for so long now I’m out the other side three years on. I’m still dealing with the Fraud police investigations lawyers et cetera meanwhile he’s off living his life getting married ,( but still has another woman on the side)
they do such a good job at spreading their poison and twisting everything you end up losing a lot of people in your life. Some of the things my ex did are impossible to believe they sound like fiction..
I wish I’d got free earlier

LifeInAHamsterWheel · 28/11/2024 10:11

I'm so sorry for you OP and for everyone who has commented on this thread about living in a similar situation. It's more than just normal 'I'm at home so can relax' - I know from many many years of living with a father who was a street angel and house devil just how awful it can be. My own DH is mostly a pleasure to live with in comparison, I know we all have our moments but he has never been intentionally nasty to me and is generally easy to live with.

Someone upthread posted "He has a horrible temper and real mean streak to him sometimes, but nobody ever sees that side to him apart from me." - that's not true if you have children. I promise you they will see it and it will be affecting them.

Nothatgingerpirate · 28/11/2024 10:16

My very kind, 75 yo husband said this.
I must admit I never heard it before (closed doors, street angel etc).
I'm sorry you are in this situation.
The exploding twats I met in life usually didn't (or couldn't) hide their issues in front of others.
😡

Nothatgingerpirate · 28/11/2024 10:31

justasking111 · 28/11/2024 09:08

And now you know ladies how the saying "Merry widow". came about. They might go through the motions of grief, but there's a throwing off of the shackles too.

@justasking111 absolutely.
The happiest women I observed since childhood were single, child free....and widows, most definitely.

eRobin · 28/11/2024 10:32

I thought it was normal for everyone to behave differently to everyone else than they do their family

mrlistersgelfbride · 28/11/2024 10:34

Hope you are ok, OP. It's the same for me. I don't think it's uncommon unfortunately.
Partner will go out of his way to be lovely to shopkeepers, fellow drivers, teachers and of course randoms in the pub.
To meet him down the pub you'd think he was the most fun, nice, generous man.

Indoors- criticizes everything I do, sarcastic about everything to do with me -I cannot do a thing right. Insults my appearance, I don't earn enough money for him and he can do better.
He hasn't seen my family for nearly 5 years.
Gets very drunk very regularly does next to no housework childcare or school runs.
Biding my time x

FrenchandSaunders · 28/11/2024 10:35

My mum used to have a saying for this "he leaves his fiddle behind the door".
some awful stories here 💐

Butterscotchcloudstangerine · 28/11/2024 10:40

Thank you so much for all the thoughts and wisdom, and sorry for my slow reply.

There's some brilliant advice on here and I'm going to keep re-reading it and absorb it all. I think I often struggle with the fact that it's not bad ALL the time, sometimes he can be kind and lovely to me also, and we tick along - but I feel that he's getting worse as he gets older, and I do not want to spend the rest of my life like this. Things need to change.

It hasn't helped that we have had a stressful few years (financial woes, family issues, ill health of others close to us etc) but that's just life, isn't it? It's only going to get worse as we move into our 50s and 60s, and I know that I deserve a partner who is supportive (or I can survive without any partner at all!)

Rest assured I do call him up on his behaviour - I don't tiptoe around him, but the resulting arguments definitely wear me down. Sometimes he apologises, or admits he's behaved badly...but then it happens again. I am so sick of it. The 'trappings' of family life don't help either, as many on here have said. We have kids, a house etc - the thought of dismantling it all by separating feels insurmountable.

I am so sorry there are many others who have experienced this in relationships/or are currently going through similar - my heart goes out to you and I am sending you strength and solidarity back.

Thanks again all x

OP posts:
SophiaCohle · 28/11/2024 10:41

I relate to this, OP. My ex wasn't openly nasty, though he could be spiteful in arguments, but he was very passive-aggressive and would play favourites with the kids. He competed with me over everything and put a lot of energy into making sure everyone thought he was "lovely" and I was "difficult". When I eventually left him, obviously my friends knew all about it, but for a good year or so afterwards, I would run into acquaintances (school mums etc) and would mention we'd separated, and I lost count of how many people assumed he'd left me because I was so difficult and obviously no one would leave someone as lovely as him. When they commiserated and I said no, I left him and I'm totally fine now, people were really baffled and disbelieving. It used to make me so angry that he'd pulled the wool over so many people's eyes.

TheTruthICantSay · 28/11/2024 10:43

These stories are so sad, but not surprising. These narcissistic behaviour traits (not necessarily someone who is actually a narcissist) are surprisingly common. I often think that forums like MN might be one of the best things to ever happen to women in these relationships - they can talk about it and be told that actually, no, that's not okay.

@DHCommNarcName I think in terms of people believing you or not, this really does tend to fall into two camps. There WILL be some people who simply won't believe it, who will take his lies on board (there's a woman on here right now whose ex is in custody because of the threat to her and she has a friend telling her to forgive him becuase he's so "sad").

But there will be lots of people like me and others on this thread who will believe you, either because we've seen it before, or because we've seen the signs with you already. What signs? Well, ones I notice the most I think are when a woman in a situation like this will make a fairly innocent comment about something that she has now internalised as being COMPLETELY normal but actually, isn't. eg, meeting up for dinner and she says, "oh, sorry I'm late, I had to get the kids to bed before I could leave as DH just can't cope otherwise, haha". or she we might be talking about evenings at home and she'll say, "when DH travels I secretly enjoy not having to tidy up every toy before he comes home. <chuckle>" Or you see a lovely dress in the window, she's clearly thinking it looks lovely and you say that it will look gorgeous on her and she says something like, "DH hatse when I wear short dresses."

Or it's the woman who never seems to be able to make evenings out, or if you meet her during the day, she always seems to have a child tagging along becuase he can't/won't look after them.

Sometimes it will be ridiculous viewpoints she's absorbed,
SAHM: "Oh, I don't like to get my hair done too often - DH works so hard and I feel bad spending his money."

Sometimes, it's the things she seems to feel nervous about:
"ooh, okay, I'll have another drink but don't tell DH <nervous laugh>"
"I must get back - DH will be wondering where I am"

Similarly, the woman whose phone is never far from her hand in case her DH because he "worries" if she doesn't answer. Or will be texting or taking calls from him constantly when she's out.

Other signs, and this, I'm increasingly thinking seems to be something that happens as these men get a bit older - it's less of an issue when they're younger - are more around him. eg, he's lovely and friendly but you'll see an edge.

Or sometimes if she's opening up a bit she might tell a story about something SHE did that was really bad and she had to apologise to her DH for. Except... when you're listening to the story you're thinking, "hang on, this can't be right." eg, "I had to apologise to DH - I lost it completely when I came down this moring and the kitchen was a mess. I was a total banshee. God, it was so embarassing." But then, with just a tiny bit of prodding, it turns out that he had said he'd clean the kitchen, that this is a regular occurance and she' djust lost it on this final go. But you certainly can't convince her of it - she's totally in agreementwith him that him NOT doign the kitchen wasn't a big deal and she totally over reacted.

These are all real examples based on women I know who I have suspected in the past are in difficult/abusive relationships. One 100% was and has finally left. ONe's husband has genuine mental health problems driving a lot of it and, actually, is finally really working hard to address this and, as far as I can tell, is making progress. One I have lost contact with but I am 100% certain that her situation is probably the most chilling of all the ones I know. One I'm still on the fence about... it actually sounds like her DH might just be a bit clueless and she certainly feels he's working hard to adjust his behaviours so... I will continue to hope for the best for her!

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