Does this count as sexual assuault?

[AzureoftheEast]

A few weeks ago when we woke in the morning my partner told me that while I had been sleeping he had been kissing my bottom all over. He didn't say this in a threatening way, he just told me as if he had been doing something nice for me. I had no idea of this, I must point out that I had not been drinking the night before, I am sure I had not been drugged. I know that if a man has sexual intercourse or attempts it with a woman while she is asleep that is rape or sexual assault. I am feeling very confused now about what happened. At the time I thought nothing of it but now I am wondering about it. I feel a little stupid because a knowledge of consent in my job is a big thing and I assume my partner knows about such things because of his job too. I know that just because of his job that does not preclude him from sexual assault of course. In the past when it comes to sex he has always been very gentle and respectful but I have been doing some reading and found out that having sex with a sleeping partner is a fetish for some people. That makes a bit of sense because when we met he was not confident when it came to sex and not that experienced. We do not live together and have been together for 18 months. I have good friends but this is not something I want to discuss with them. Would like the perspective of more objective others to get some clarity on this please.

It isn't. To be blunt, if you're too stupid to not know the difference between a hug and arse kissing, you shouldn't be allowed around children for a start. Or anyone vulnerable.

Why do some men play us like this? They know, they just want to pretend they don't so they can assault and gaslight women. I assume they kiss their mums' cheeks, kiss their kids' heads, tousle their friends' kids' hair, touch the shoulder of someone to alert them to danger, hug their mates after a goal. They don't then shove their tongue up their arsehole accidentally because it's all so confusing.

Straight men know what not to do to anyone other than an adult non-related woman. But with a woman it's all just SOOOOOO confusing.

Lol, I'm not disagreeing about the bum thing. I do think it was intended as a cute 'teen' thing, but it did cross the line a bit. I'm simply saying that anything while asleep is technically non-consensual. No-one ever has that conversation. No matter what all the posters above say, I guarantee you none have done the Sheldon Cooper 'kissing on the lips while awake is allowed, but on the forehead, lips and neck, but not below the neck, ear lobes, chin while asleep is not allowed,' talk.
By that logic, you have to treat sleep as an absolute dead zone for everything. If you've ever snapped at your husband for touching you, or kissing you at 'the wrong time' then that implies there are times you do not want to be kissed. That implies consent. That consent cannot be given whilst asleep. Therefore, if we're following absolute consent rules, he is not allowed to touch you at all while asleep, regardless of the normality of that action while awake.

You simply chat about it when both people are awake.

I don’t want to be hugged in my sleep, I like my space. DH knows that so leaves me to it if I’m sleeping.

Easy.

@bifurCAT but no one is saying you can't touch your partner at all while they're asleep. Again, there's a difference between a hug/kiss on the cheek/snuggle up when it's cold, and kissing someone all over their bare bottom, especially when that kissing is not intended as an opener for sex but just as something this guy fancied doing for his own benefit.

Honestly OP Id be up front with it and say it made you uncomfortable that you did while I was asleep. Many people do find it a turn on to be woken up with pleasure, or the idea of it, he could have been testing the waters to see if that was something you were in to. If you're not be open and set some boundaries. If he respects that, fantastic. If not then I'd call that assault.

As for the daughter thing. To me that's completely normal. Your dad may not have done it with you, that doesn't make it wrong.

Is @GentleFlower a green goblin?

Exactly. Please grow up and be serious about this.

I was sexually assaulted as a 23 year old and I was in confusion about it for so long because I thought I’d be considered OTT if I said that’s what it was. I was sleeping he woke me up and I was disorientated and definitely not giving consent, he crept behind me and sexually assaulted me and I froze. I have never consented to doing anything while asleep with that guy so there was no “implied” or assumed consent either.

Had I known what I know now I’d have been able to address the trauma earlier and wouldn’t have kept things going with him for a few more weeks. He ended up emotionally abused and humiliating me even more in those last few weeks.

A pp alluded to it but on MAFSUK this year there’s a bloke called Luke who was told repeatedly not to constantly make sexual “banter” to his new wife but he kept defying her. After she broke up with him he sent a letter and a gift on her birthday then he added a line in about regretting that he didn’t “terrorise her bum hole!” when she was cooking for them. She was obviously horrified and uncomfortable. And he kept gaslighting her and then eventually gave a fake apology.

So many women online are aggressively defending him while demonising her for being a “prude” and basically for not laughing along with him for disrespecting her boundaries. How dare she?!

It’s awful how widespread misogyny is and how so many women subscribe to it.

OP I don’t know if it would bother me, I had a guy that used to kiss my neck and hug me while I slept and I know I liked that, but that’s neither here nor there - it seems to bother you which is what matters.

If so, I think it’s vital that you speak up before it escalates.

Is this even a real event? Just seems so bizarre.

no it is not sexual assault.

Sounds like he was overwhelmed with affection and told you about it.

Communication is key. If you didn’t like it, did you tell him ?
Sleeping with his daughter isn’t an issue.

Unless there’s a back story we’re missing ?

I think this depends on the couple. There is a lot of variety between people on what is acceptable.

Assault sounds like a very strong word for what you describe to me. My instinct is that it was inappropriate at worst. One person's loving gesture is another person's offensive act.

I think a couple need to work towards making clear loving boundaries particularly around sleep. I have always thought that intentionally walking someone up to have sex with you is really out of order. But I think sleep is sacred.

But it is hard to talk about things without hurting feelings.

You do sound vulnerable though so maybe some counseling could help you feel a bit clearer about what you need most.

He was so overwhelmed with affection that he kissed her....arse?

As long as you’ve discuss what is an ‘intimate’ area first.

There is no way this is an issue that can sorted without them talking together and agreeing in boundaries.
There is no ‘as simple as’.

Btw your comment about ‘fiddling with her to get off’ is your interpretation.
Thats not what I read. I saw a guy who covered her with kisses. That’s it. No getting off going on.

Covered her bum with kisses, whilst she was asleep.

Having never talked to her about what she’s happy with him doing whilst she asleep.

It’s not ok. If he’s not happy to ask, he shouldn’t be doing it.

The main thing I'm getting from your posts OP is that this relationship is over. This is more than him giving you the ick, which would be bad enough.

It's irrelevant what we think and how we feel about this incident. It was too much for you, on an already shaky background. You're better off splitting up.

@Attelina I cannot agree with you more. As well as an inability to think for themselves. Which 'assaulter' tells you...."honey, I've just assaulted you" !!!!. Of course the guy is being affectionate. OP, if you have suspicions about the guy, leave him. You don't need strangers to make up your mind for you.

Yes. It. Is.
Is the act sexual?
Yes.
Was consent given?
No. The poster was asleep and they have given no indication that they cosseted to any sexual activity while they were asleep.

My H has touched and penetrated me in my sleep several times over the years and I have been told by Womensaid that this is rape and aexual assault. This is the same scenario where a sexual action took place while the poster was asleep. There are different degrees of assault I'm sure, but this is still an assault.

You’d be surprised at how blatant boundary testing can be.

I’m sorry, covering someone in affectionate kisses does not involve someone’s bare backside. He was not doing that as a cute act of affection while she slept. He was getting off on it or contemplating going further.

A kiss on the forehead while someone sleeps is affectionate. Covering a bare bum with kisses is not. It’s weird and creepy.

Agree. Cuddling your sleeping partner and kissing their neck is affectionate. Kissing their bare arse really isn’t.

'Yes. It. Is.
Is the act sexual?
Yes.
Was consent given?
No. The poster was asleep and they have given no indication that they cosseted to any sexual activity while they were asleep.'

@Tulip2478

Eh? Does your partner ask you before they kiss you each time? It would be bloody miserable if my husband said 'do you mind if I kiss you' - go ahead! I'll make it evident if I don't want to kiss in that moment. Or a cuddle? Have you never had a partner come up behind you in the kitchen and give you a squeeze or a cheeky bum grab?

'Excuse me 5feet, would you mind if I placed my hand on your bum?'

It's normal. It's what people jay are comfortable around each other do. If the OP isn't comfortable with it, then she needs to have a conversation with her partner about her boundaries. Then if he kept on doing it despite her boundaries, then sure it's sexual assault.

I'll make it evident if I don't want to kiss in that moment

Except, if you’re asleep, you can’t.

I think this is all about the context of a specific relationship. Intimacy boundaries are set up between two people and some may seem extreme to an outsider.

The OP clearly feels unnerved by this act and I would hope that she can communicate that and also work on what is making her feel so fragile at this time in this relationship.

Consent around sexual acts is a very complex area particularly as a sense of not getting consent is erotic to many people. It's a minefield and has to be judged in terms of this couple & the law. He clearly got it wrong this time but may have done so entirely innocently.