Does this count as sexual assuault?

[AzureoftheEast]

A few weeks ago when we woke in the morning my partner told me that while I had been sleeping he had been kissing my bottom all over. He didn't say this in a threatening way, he just told me as if he had been doing something nice for me. I had no idea of this, I must point out that I had not been drinking the night before, I am sure I had not been drugged. I know that if a man has sexual intercourse or attempts it with a woman while she is asleep that is rape or sexual assault. I am feeling very confused now about what happened. At the time I thought nothing of it but now I am wondering about it. I feel a little stupid because a knowledge of consent in my job is a big thing and I assume my partner knows about such things because of his job too. I know that just because of his job that does not preclude him from sexual assault of course. In the past when it comes to sex he has always been very gentle and respectful but I have been doing some reading and found out that having sex with a sleeping partner is a fetish for some people. That makes a bit of sense because when we met he was not confident when it came to sex and not that experienced. We do not live together and have been together for 18 months. I have good friends but this is not something I want to discuss with them. Would like the perspective of more objective others to get some clarity on this please.

I think it’s a really odd thing to do whilst someone is unconscious! I’m with you in finding it strange Op.

You don't trust this man. If my partner said that to me I'd think 'you absolute weirdo, why didn't you wake me?' It wouldn't cross my mind I'd been assaulted, because I trust that he wouldn't hurt me. (Don't get me wrong, I know any man can, there are no guarantees, but when it's ambiguous, you knew nothing about it, it's a strange one to jump to with a man you do trust) I think you may be more shaken by his MH than you think. It's a serious illness with a lot of questions around it and very difficult, especially on short acquaintance to know what it might look like. If i were you and Iiked this man I'd slow it right down and avoid being vulnerable around him until you were more sure of whether you trusted him or not.

Kissing someone’s bare bottom when they are sleeping isn’t affectionate. It’s weird.

Sleeping people can’t consent.

You are clearly uncomfortable with it OP so ask that he doesn’t do it again.

I think you have too many doubts about this man for the relationship to survive. I would, too, FWIW.

This absolutely wouldn't bother me at all.

Your post doesn't make clear if it bothered you or not? Did it? If it did then that's valid.

It sounds to me though as if you are looking for reasons to accuse him of inappropriate sexual behavior. Is that the case?

If you don't like to trust him then that's reason in itself enough to dump him, regardless of the technical terms for what he did.

This.

That's quite a leap OP judging him for sharing a bed with his own daughter. I'm more worried about your state of mind than his tbh .

@AzureoftheEast sorry but how can he be "not that experienced" when it comes to sex when he has a 14 year old daughter?? did he not need to have sexual intercourse to get her mother pregnant??

This is the grey area aspect of affection vs. sexual assault.

I'd love it if I woke to my partner going down on me, despite never having said it, but in a shorter relationship, hell no!

I guess the strict definition is 'consent'. You can't give it while asleep, or even say "you may wake me by doing that", because you cant consent to it during the act.

But then the other side, is a boyfriend reaching around you while you sleep (spooning) with his hands on your breasts, 'assault'? A husband? Where is the strict line? Maybe the line for this is decided by the woman in the moment. "He kissed me there, I felt violated because I was asleep" vs another woman saying "I woke up and found that really cute"...

Honestly (personal opinion), in this case, I think he intended it to be cute and romantic. The fact that you were naked has certain implications (perhaps already had sex, comfortable with him touching you, etc). So I think kissing your bum, despite being a bit weird, falls into forgivable-to-grey area realm.

It sounds like you're not comfortable with aspects of the way he expressed his sexual interest. It sounds to me a little creepy, but if he was trying to say it seductively and just pathetically failed then it's more down to his immaturity sexually? Tell him that's weird and you don't like it if you don't. He sounds like he could do with quite a few pointers on certain things. Not that it's your responsibility.
He might just not be right for you. I wouldn't blame you, from the way you described him. It sounds like what a teenager would say/do.

No, I don't think it's sexual assault but that doesn't mean you have to be ok with it.

You can tell him not to do anything like that again, or you can break up with him - I think that might be for the best considering you suspect he's behaved inappropriately with his daughter.

I'd definitely find the bottom kissing a bit wierd - if you're uncomfortable with it, tell him that and tell him not to do anything like that again while you're asleep. Him sharing a bed with his daughter in those circumstances I don't think is a problem.

No, "this kind of thing" is not why sexual assault is not taken seriously. Sexual assault is not taken seriously because victims are blamed, because victims are not believed, and because of the pervasive culture built up over 1000s of years of women being viewed as second class citizens by men.

I'm not saying this incident was sexual assault. But suggesting that merely questioning whether an incident was SA is the reason why so many sexual predators go unpunished is grossly misogynistic.

If it was a man I felt safe with who loved me I would think that was cute (as long as it didn't wake me up!)

I genuinely wouldn’t want anyone kissing my bare bum while I was asleep. I think it’s a bit weird.

It’s comments like these on this thread that make me want to leave MN and find all the rational, normal people 😂

In part it might be overthinking but, we have instincts for a reason.

Best case scenario he was just being goofy.

But...why would he feel the need to tell you this? Worst case scenario: he could be attempting to make you anxious. By essentially saying he can do things to you while you sleep and have no say. Even, testing the waters to see what you will accept. If you brush this under the carpet, worse could happen. A power play. And setting you up for 'I thought you were OK with it' bs.

I couldn't imagine staying with someone that gave me a knot in my stomach. Which, this surely must. Or who I'd even consider could possibly mean me harm. Always remeber that men are women's biggest predators. A hint of unsafety from them? Run.

If you're getting an uncomfortable scratchy feeling in your subconscious that says you should be worried, listen to it.

Same! It would freak me out. I'm self conscious at the best of times and someones face that close to my uncovered arse while I'm sleeping would piss me right off!

I wouldnt mind it all that affection just for me but im a windy person in the mornings so he would be in for a shock lol.
Some of the comments i have to say are making me laugh love it.

I don’t understand this.

What, he went down under the covers and kissed all over your bum whilst you were asleep?

I think that’s really, really odd.

Really odd.

Personally op nothing here is jumping out at me as especially sinister... HOWEVER ... I'm always a firm believer in trusting your gut. If you feel uncomfortable then I'd question why that feeling is arising for you. Sometimes the things we can't put a finger on is our early warning system picking up on something. So either you trust him and feel safe with him (in which case stay) or you don't. If you don't then walk away. You don't need a reason or anyone else's approval to justify it.

I honestly dont see the problem if you’re in a relationship. I wouldn’t even really care if I woke up to him doing me 🤣 as long as it’s not aggressive or anything else weird going on in the relationship