Does this count as sexual assuault?

[AzureoftheEast]

A few weeks ago when we woke in the morning my partner told me that while I had been sleeping he had been kissing my bottom all over. He didn't say this in a threatening way, he just told me as if he had been doing something nice for me. I had no idea of this, I must point out that I had not been drinking the night before, I am sure I had not been drugged. I know that if a man has sexual intercourse or attempts it with a woman while she is asleep that is rape or sexual assault. I am feeling very confused now about what happened. At the time I thought nothing of it but now I am wondering about it. I feel a little stupid because a knowledge of consent in my job is a big thing and I assume my partner knows about such things because of his job too. I know that just because of his job that does not preclude him from sexual assault of course. In the past when it comes to sex he has always been very gentle and respectful but I have been doing some reading and found out that having sex with a sleeping partner is a fetish for some people. That makes a bit of sense because when we met he was not confident when it came to sex and not that experienced. We do not live together and have been together for 18 months. I have good friends but this is not something I want to discuss with them. Would like the perspective of more objective others to get some clarity on this please.

Another poster, ridiculing the idea of consent.

Men may as well turn gay with threads like this.

Or they can stay single if they can’t manage to keep to themselves when someone is sleeping and nothing has been previously discussed.

Out of curiosity, those who don’t see any issue with sexual activity taking place while asleep if it’s with a partner- what would you say if this was your daughter approaching you about this?
If your daughter explained that her boyfriend had admitted to touching/kissing an intimate body part while she was asleep and she wasn’t sure how she felt about it, would you dismiss her and tell her that because she’s in a relationship, you don’t see what the problem is? Would you tell her that because she’s had consensual sex with him many times before, that gives him free rein to have sex with her while she’s asleep.

I really hope this wouldn’t be the case.

Fuck me, the bar is low on this thread...

@Jifmicroliquid what the OP describes wouldn’t be a sexual activity to me.
But I can see why some people would see it like this.
For me, my bottom is not a sexual part. My breasts would be.
A kiss on my bottom wouldn’t be much more sexual than a kiss on my back or my shoulders.
And yes I do find it normal for my partner to touch me when we are in bd together. Putting his arm over me. I’d put my hand on his wait or his leg. All pretty normal stuff wo it being sexual.

Its very personal though and it’s really up to the OP to decide if it’s ok or not for her.

The stuff about sleeping with his 14yo dd…
Ive done the same with my two dc’s (boys) and I really can’t see the issue.

I think though that other stuff are going on that makes her questioning everything. So it’s hard to give proper advice iyswim

Kissing “all over your bottom” doesn’t, to me, feel similar to a partner getting into bed and cuddling up.

it suggests a prolonged, deliberate action.

So what do we need, an anatomical diagram where you mark with an x all the areas out of bounds whilst asleep?

Again, with the “isn’t consent ridiculous”

So whats your solution?

Am I in an alternate universe or something? Genuinely baffled here.

Do people like being kissed and groped in their sleep?? I genuinely don’t want to be touched in my sleep. I have also never felt the urge to touch or kiss a partner while they are asleep.

Oh you're a man. Of course.

You don't need a diagram, no. Just a little intelligence, a simple moral compass and some basic manners should do.

Talking.

My partner and I talk about sex. We discuss what works, what doesn’t. What we want, and what we don’t. We’ll float ideas and discuss, laugh, try things out, check in afterwards. Sex is very important to us. Consent is central to that.

Solution? Don’t touch or kiss people in an intimate area when they are asleep. If you want to have sex, wake them up and see if they want to.
Don’t just fiddle with them because you get off on it.
What is wrong with people??

Wow this thread is depressing. We may as well bring back the laws that said a man was entitled to have sex with his wife whenever he wanted to whether she wanted to or not and that he could beat her with a stick so long as it is no bigger than the width of his thumb.

A lot of people on the thread seem to be making the mistake of imagining how they would feel if it was their partner. But this is the op and her partner and she doesn't feel comfortable so it's not the same thing at all. A woman's gut feelings are the best indicator as to whether she can trust her partner. If it was just a harmless cuddle in bed why is he telling her about it the next day? He is telling her to test her boundaries and to be able to gather evidence of consent for the next thing he does which will be a step further and so on. Looks like he's got all his mates to come on this thread to back him up too.

Just say no for now. You can always say yes later if you decide it's something you do want to have in your relationship.

Wow this thread is depressing. We may as well bring back the laws that said a man was entitled to have sex with his wife whenever he wanted to whether she wanted to or not and that he could beat her with a stick so long as it is no bigger than the width of his thumb.

Conjugal rites?

Talk. It’s that simple.

It still must be CONSENSUAL.

A sleeping person cannot consent. But that’s not going to stop you, is it? There’s words for people like that you know.

For the trolly men.

Assume there is no consent unless it is explicitly given.

Nice and simple.

Also let's not forget that the way the incident is described, it doesn't sound like he was trying to wake her for sex. He was doing it for his own pleasure, not hers. Like her body was just a toy for him.

If that's something you're happy with in your relationship, fine. But let's not try to equate it to someone trying to initiate consensual sex.

I can't believe the responses on this thread... saying men are better off turning gay! A while ago, I have posted several times over the years about my H touching me in my sleep and starting sex repeatedly, and the responses were much, much different. There is more to it but that statement from me alone led to most of the responses calling it an assault. This was clearly a sexual action, and he did not have consent as it cant be given when asleep, so by law it would be assault. It is OP who decides how they feel about it, if they feel violated than that undersrandable. As for the poster who claimed she woke up her H with a BJ, that's fine if consent is given beforehand, but I wouldn't dream of doing that without having the discussion before. If you aren't comfortable with it OP then tell him, his reaction will tell you what you need to know.

Absolutely this 🙏

If you need it, please avoid sex altogether because you aren't grown up enough to have it.

Real men are capable of getting and understanding enthusiastic consent.

Same as the men who say, "you can't even talk to women nowadays". No YOU can't, please don't. Good men can.

I think the point they're making is that consent cannot be given whilst sleeping, so that means a husband cannot even touch his wife until she is fully woken up and lucid.

That rules out coming over in the middle of the night and snuggling, those tight hugs to reassure you when you're having a nightmare... you could argue even that kiss to wake you up when you've fallen asleep on the couch, or even touching you gently to wake you.

I realise I'm taking it to the extreme, but kissing, or any touching at all technically could be argued as a violation. Of course, I'm not arguing FOR bum kissing (say), but by the strictest interpretation, you're not allowed to cross onto their side of the bed at all while asleep.

@bifurCAT it's really not difficult to distinguish between giving someone who seems to be unsettled in their sleep a hug, and kissing their bottom all over whilst they sleep.