I feel like my fiance is putting me in an impossible position with communication. Am I just way off base here?

[AlertOP]

My fiance (38M) and I (35F) generally have a strong relationship and excellent communication. We did couples therapy after we first got engaged a few years ago which strengthened our relationship and communication a lot. I’m not really interested in “just break up” advice, please keep in mind what I’m presenting here is just one slice of our relationship.

We have been having this issue for a bit where when I bring up a conversation about something that bothers me, it goes completely sideways. We’re very respectful to each other, we don’t name call or yell, but these conversations seem to always end in both of us just feeling upset and misunderstood. I don’t bring these up super often, but I have noticed a trend.

We had another one of these conversations today where I wanted to bring up something that had rubbed me the wrong way in a previous conversation (he spoke to a coworker in a way that was very rude in front of me). Important context here is that my fiance has urged me since the beginning of our relationship to always tell him when something bothers me, and he gets upset if he finds out later that I didn’t discuss something with him when I was feeling it. So I try to bring things up.

I communicate as non violently as humanly possible. I use I feel statements, I acknowledge his perspective and intention, and I validate his experience.

He feels attacked every time. He gets defensive every time.

We finally had a meta conversation this past weekend about these discussions. He basically said that as long as I am telling him he did something “wrong” (I never use that language) he is always going to feel attacked and like I’m condemning him and therefore I should always expect him to get defensive.

I told him that this cycle makes me feel much less safe and willing to bring things up with him, which he wants me to do. He said that’s a problem for him in our relationship. I asked him to remember that I’m not attacking him and work on his defensiveness. He said that’s impossible. I said that’s a problem for me.

It’s like there’s no way out of this cycle. He wants me to bring things up and if I don’t, he’s upset, and if I do, he feels attacked.

I literally don’t know what else I could do in this situation. I have tried to adjust my verbiage at his request, but ultimately it boils down to no matter how I bring things up he is always going to feel like he’s being attacked. Is there something I’m missing here? This is not healthy right? I tried to explain to him that from my perspective we are always going to do things wrong unintentionally to each other and we need to be able to bring that up without the feeling of being attacked. He just doesn’t understand that.

Back to couples counseling with us I suspect.

It sounds like a him problem. It’s for him to work on.

Sounds like too much hard work ... over thinking and over reacting .

He isn’t respecting you at a very fundamental level. You can’t solve this within the relationship because he pretends to what something (honesty, communication, growth, respect) which he actually can’t tolerate. The request for honest, adult, communication is a lie. Whether he knows it or not.

I communicate as non violently as humanly possible. I use I feel statements, I acknowledge his perspective and intention, and I validate his experience.
Sorry but this level of naval gazing therapy speech sounds exhausting.
Do you have conversations that don't get picked apart to a cellular level?

If you need couples counseling that many times, so early on it's not going to work. You're beating a dead horse.

I'd be having a meta conversation on going your separate ways, it's just sounds exhausting.

I think going back to counselling is a good idea. I think revisiting relationship counselling throughout a relationship is always good (particularly if you've found it useful before).

I think he's right when he says that the immediate reaction to being criticised is defensiveness. I think that's probably true for most people. What he needs to work on is how he presents that feeling to you and also what happens next. Maybe it would work better for him is you flag an issue ahead of time? This way he can feel defensive, then give himself some time to move on from that immediate emotion and move towards being able to listen and move forward.

The other thing you could try is talking to him like a toddler. Instead of telling him what you don't like (No, don't throw the ball in the kitchen), you can tell him what you would prefer he do (Take the ball into the garden, please). Positive communication.

Using the most recent example, ask him to model how he would like you to have brought it up.

Either he won’t be able to, or you might get some genuine insight into how to word these things in a way which makes him feel less defensive.

Honestly I think you're both talking far too much about a whole lot of stuff that everyone else would be whatever over

Has he always been defensive about things that bothered you?

Or perhaps he became more defensive because you started bringing up more issues in the name of "better communication"?

Alternatively, it might not be a communication issue, but rather an incompatibility issue. He displays many behaviours that bother you, but they are ingrained and part of his personality—and likely will never change.

For example, "he spoke to a coworker in a way that was very rude in front of me." Unless his coworker was a bellend and deserved it, this speaks volumes about your partner.

Definitely stay together. Why spoil two houses?

This.

You are fundamentally incompatible.

Absolutely this

Have you tried communicating in binary?

Too much hard work. & Boring. Particularly the level of dissecting conversations. Fancy years of feeling unable to say what's on your mind, worried about his reaction. & He clearly thinks rudeness is ok and you've a cheek to pull him up on it. I don't know what you expect counselling to do, this is who he is and he hasn't changed for you. It's up to you if you can put up with this for years on end really. In which case, make yourself into exactly who he wants you to be and you'll be fine. For him.

I struggled to understand your OP through all the therapy speak, but if I've understood correctly he says he wants you to tell him when something bothers you but when you do he gets defensive and says he feels you're attacking him.

Either he doesn't mean it when he says he wants you to be honest if something is bothering you, or he needs to develop a thicker skin when you tell him what's bothering you and learn how to deal with constructive criticism a little better.

However, I suspect it would help immensely if you didn't discuss these issues using the vocabulary of a Californian therapist who charges $500/hour and used plain English instead.

What kind of issues are we talking here ?

it feels very much like you are walking on eggshells - over analysing.

you have no space to be you .

i agree with the pp who said if it’s this hard now .. absolutely don’t get married … do you share a house , there will be many things you disagree with, that is all fine how you are managing it isn’t

Don't worry about people ridiculing therapy OP.

I agree with the poster saying ask him to tell you how he would like you to bring it up and roleplay it. Also does he ever bring things up that you do, that he doesn't like?

What's a meta conversation?

I’m not really interested in “just break up” advice

I suspect it would be a lot less painful and a lot cheaper than shelling out thousands to get bogged down in parody level therapy speak and still not be able to solve anything.

A conversation about other conversations I think. Like those Russian dolls.

He wants you to never see him as being wrong. Boil it down, that's what it comes to. I have one like this. Cannot be criticised. You will end up making yourself smaller because you are not allowed to raise issues except on his terms.

I feel exhausted reading your op. God knows how it must be to be inside a relationship like this.

meta conversation? I’d just laugh at anyone who used that in rl. I truly would.