I feel like my fiance is putting me in an impossible position with communication. Am I just way off base here?

[AlertOP]

My fiance (38M) and I (35F) generally have a strong relationship and excellent communication. We did couples therapy after we first got engaged a few years ago which strengthened our relationship and communication a lot. I’m not really interested in “just break up” advice, please keep in mind what I’m presenting here is just one slice of our relationship.

We have been having this issue for a bit where when I bring up a conversation about something that bothers me, it goes completely sideways. We’re very respectful to each other, we don’t name call or yell, but these conversations seem to always end in both of us just feeling upset and misunderstood. I don’t bring these up super often, but I have noticed a trend.

We had another one of these conversations today where I wanted to bring up something that had rubbed me the wrong way in a previous conversation (he spoke to a coworker in a way that was very rude in front of me). Important context here is that my fiance has urged me since the beginning of our relationship to always tell him when something bothers me, and he gets upset if he finds out later that I didn’t discuss something with him when I was feeling it. So I try to bring things up.

I communicate as non violently as humanly possible. I use I feel statements, I acknowledge his perspective and intention, and I validate his experience.

He feels attacked every time. He gets defensive every time.

We finally had a meta conversation this past weekend about these discussions. He basically said that as long as I am telling him he did something “wrong” (I never use that language) he is always going to feel attacked and like I’m condemning him and therefore I should always expect him to get defensive.

I told him that this cycle makes me feel much less safe and willing to bring things up with him, which he wants me to do. He said that’s a problem for him in our relationship. I asked him to remember that I’m not attacking him and work on his defensiveness. He said that’s impossible. I said that’s a problem for me.

It’s like there’s no way out of this cycle. He wants me to bring things up and if I don’t, he’s upset, and if I do, he feels attacked.

I literally don’t know what else I could do in this situation. I have tried to adjust my verbiage at his request, but ultimately it boils down to no matter how I bring things up he is always going to feel like he’s being attacked. Is there something I’m missing here? This is not healthy right? I tried to explain to him that from my perspective we are always going to do things wrong unintentionally to each other and we need to be able to bring that up without the feeling of being attacked. He just doesn’t understand that.

Back to couples counseling with us I suspect.

The only things I can suggest is you letting him know what an issue is and letting him have time to digest it before he comes back to you. Responding rather than reacting. I wouldn’t like the lack of self awareness on his part, you could be the worlds best communicator but if the person on the receiving end isn’t even listening what’s the point?

I would also say maybe you should process the issues and ask yourself if it really needs raising or if you should just let it go?

“Therapy talk” can be genuinely helpful when dealing with difficult subjects but I’d be frustrated at having to use it for every little disagreement. With the co worker conversation I would’ve just said to my DP “you sounded like a right dick” and he could’ve disagreed or explained where he was coming from

I have tried to adjust my verbiage at his request

When you have to speak like this, it's a hiding to nothing. He wants you to raise any issues you have and isn't happy if you don't, but also isn't happy when you speak clearly.

He's gaslighting you and will continue to do that.

And too much couples therapy speak.

Sounds like the main problem is that you are discussing a problem and you want him to listen and he wants to solve.

He's training you to put up with everything you don't like as it's easier to do that than have a convo with him.

ie 'don't shout at Jimmy in front of me it makes me uncomfortable"

Him: "you're always criticising me I'm all hurt. I never seem to be able to do anything right in your eyes"

You (hopefully in future) Just don't do it again as I don't like it. It's disrespectful and uncalled for"

End of. Don't fall for his bullshit and don't talk about his feelings. Say what you want to say. Walk away.

Bots have relationship woes too.

I am not a bot although I will take that as a weird compliment lol.

Why would you assume they are in their 20s when their ages are in the first line of the OP?

Anyway @AlertOP it sounds like way too much hard work like me.

According to the first post they are 38 and 35.

I think people often claim to want things they don’t really want - ie he thinks he is the sort of person who wants you to bring stuff up with him but he definitely is not. The perfect answer for a relaxed relationship would be if you were 100 percent comfortable never addressing any of these annoyances but if course that would make you feel bad. So if you want to make it work ignore his claim that he wants you to bring everything up and start picking your battles - there will be some things that annoy you that are not worth bringing up at all and some things that are - be laser focused only on the latter and make sure it’s all about what you really need him to change. Hopefully having a much smaller number of these conversations focused on the “real” issues will also make him more receptive but if it doesn’t then you have to decide if you can live with that or not. Just don’t expect him to turn into the person he thinks he is - ie someone who can have unemotional and logical conversations about things he does that annoy you - because he obviously will not become that person.

Because they both sound ridiculous. And enmeshed in therapy speak, which seems to be the obsession du jour of those much younger. I'm quite surprised the opening post didn't include "CW" and "TW". 🙄

I know it got lost in the psycho babble but OP mentioned their ages in her OP!

This 100%.
He is very effectively shutting you down.
You have bent yourself out of shape trying not to offend him, but you do every time.
This is who he is.
The completely wrong man for you.
You will end up a shell of yourself.
Get therapy yourself to figure out what you need to do for yourself.
You cannot fix this or him.

Yea what is a meta conversation? All this therapy speak is so exhausting and pretentious

OP, you sound like you're reciting a psychology textbook! Nobody lives their life obsessing about every little thing in this way. I find it interesting that you've been engaged "a few years", but not yet married.....

Stop analysing every little thing, and just live your life. Do you like him? Do you love him? Do you get along pretty well most (not all) of the time? That's all you need. Just relax.

You are unhappy with how he spoke to someone else in your presence ? Can you elaborate on this ?

For example of you're trying to change how he communicates with other people I think he has a right to feel attacked

I’ve been with someone who was incredibly prickly/defensive/felt criticized over any little thing, which led to interminable discussions about “our communication difficulties” and his insistence that more and more therapy was needed.

I tried my level best to communicate well but nothing made a difference, because the problem wasn’t communication, it was that he could not stand being seen as less than perfect.

I’m now with someone who responds easily and empathetically to any considerately worded complaint/feedback or just a suggestion for doing something in a way that works better for me. It’s a world of difference, and greater happiness.

Honestly if he cant fix the way he responds, you’ll have to consider leaving. It will wear you down to exhaustion over time.

It’s like there’s no way out of this cycle. He wants me to bring things up and if I don’t, he’s upset, and if I do, he feels attacked

⬆️
this is the exact utter manipulative bullshit an ex pulled on me

it is purely designed to:

make you always the problem/bad guy
make him always a victim/good guy

make you afraid to speak up and make you afraid to keep quiet

sometimes all counselling does is give them a pop psychology language with which to destroy you to avoid having to raise a hand

to be 100% clear - I think he’s an abusive wanker who is mid-destruction of your entire self-worth by making fear and self-doubt your ‘normal’ with him

regardless of you not wanting to hear “break up” your choices are:

have a break up now

or have a break down later

What exactly are you criticising / complaining about ?
He may or may not be overly sensitive/ abusive / gaslightly, but at the same time the OP may be the one constantly on his back about things. It's impossible to tell from your posts.

Anyway, the whole thing just sounds exhausting. Do you ever just have a laugh together ?

I écho this op. Please don't dismiss this comment really think it through

This taking ownership crap is the oldest dodge in the book though.

You lost me at “I speak to him as non violently as possible.” I can’t bear this “non violent communication” idea, it seems to mean you can never be direct or assertive.

Yes it all sounds so exhausting and joyless.

I don’t know what motivated you to have relationship counselling early in the relationship - whose idea was it and why?

What it seems to have done is train you to not actually say what you feel but instead temper your language in a very guarded way. So you can’t say ‘crikey, you were really rude to Paul earlier’ but instead you’ve a complex careful sequence of sentences designed to avoid hurting his feelings. Your whole communication is centred on fear of upset.

I used to live with someone like this and it took me YEARS to (re)learn how to speak my mind.