I feel like my fiance is putting me in an impossible position with communication. Am I just way off base here?

[AlertOP]

My fiance (38M) and I (35F) generally have a strong relationship and excellent communication. We did couples therapy after we first got engaged a few years ago which strengthened our relationship and communication a lot. I’m not really interested in “just break up” advice, please keep in mind what I’m presenting here is just one slice of our relationship.

We have been having this issue for a bit where when I bring up a conversation about something that bothers me, it goes completely sideways. We’re very respectful to each other, we don’t name call or yell, but these conversations seem to always end in both of us just feeling upset and misunderstood. I don’t bring these up super often, but I have noticed a trend.

We had another one of these conversations today where I wanted to bring up something that had rubbed me the wrong way in a previous conversation (he spoke to a coworker in a way that was very rude in front of me). Important context here is that my fiance has urged me since the beginning of our relationship to always tell him when something bothers me, and he gets upset if he finds out later that I didn’t discuss something with him when I was feeling it. So I try to bring things up.

I communicate as non violently as humanly possible. I use I feel statements, I acknowledge his perspective and intention, and I validate his experience.

He feels attacked every time. He gets defensive every time.

We finally had a meta conversation this past weekend about these discussions. He basically said that as long as I am telling him he did something “wrong” (I never use that language) he is always going to feel attacked and like I’m condemning him and therefore I should always expect him to get defensive.

I told him that this cycle makes me feel much less safe and willing to bring things up with him, which he wants me to do. He said that’s a problem for him in our relationship. I asked him to remember that I’m not attacking him and work on his defensiveness. He said that’s impossible. I said that’s a problem for me.

It’s like there’s no way out of this cycle. He wants me to bring things up and if I don’t, he’s upset, and if I do, he feels attacked.

I literally don’t know what else I could do in this situation. I have tried to adjust my verbiage at his request, but ultimately it boils down to no matter how I bring things up he is always going to feel like he’s being attacked. Is there something I’m missing here? This is not healthy right? I tried to explain to him that from my perspective we are always going to do things wrong unintentionally to each other and we need to be able to bring that up without the feeling of being attacked. He just doesn’t understand that.

Back to couples counseling with us I suspect.

I know therapy isn't for everyone so it's fine! It's been a huge help for me for sure.

I have asked him many times how to bring things up so that he doesn't feel defensive and he usually suggests things that I literally already said in that conversation. When we were discussing things today, he basically said that if I could either say "You (he) didn't do anything wrong" or "I don't need any changes from this" that he wouldn't feel defensive. Which...Is fine if I just need validation I guess but doesn't address the issue of when he has actually done something that bothered me and/or I would like to adjust.

He does bring things up with me occasionally, although I will admit less often. I try very hard to not get defensive although I'm certain I do sometimes. My bigger reactions are needing a long time to process and being quiet while I form a response for a long time (which he is not a fan of, but respects), and that I cry really quickly which I feel like sometimes unintentionally shifts the emotional focus to me which is not where it should be when he's bringing something up. I will say that I definitely do not feel attacked like he does and I put a lot of effort into responding with curiosity and patience over reaction with harsh language. I'm sure I'm not perfect at it though.

I do think this is the right take. The strange thing is that when he recognizes himself that he's done something wrong, he is very good about taking ownership of it and apologizing with a lot of humility. It's just when I bring something up that he hasn't considered or doesn't think is a problem that he can't see it. Which yes, is a big problem.

Sounds to me like he is very fragile and emotionally has no resilience so everything you say that isn't positive takes him to a bad place. Nothing you can do about it. He needs to address his low self esteem himself.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things in terms of good communication style and how you structure your feedback. Literally what more can you do? Nothing!

There is no work around for the fragile male ego.

It’s a him problem.
Highly likely he made an effort before but can’t be bothered anymore
Plus you being careful with your communication helped so it has somehow reinforce the idea that it was all you/your issue to start with.

I asked him to remember that I’m not attacking him and work on his defensiveness. He said that’s impossible.
That’s telling you he isn’t willing to make any effort.

This is probably the most helpful advice in the thread really.

The vast majority of my advice on here includes "one or both of you desperately needs therapy ffs" but in this case I think OP and her fiance could do with a lot less therapy. A lot less picking over details, a lot less imbuing significance into the minutiae of reactions, a lot more shrugging things off and letting things go. Or if that's not possible, a lot more of letting each other go.

I am guessing there is a part of him from his past where he felt vulnerable and that ge needed to defend and himself - hence being ready to attack.
Maybe ask him did he feel vulnerable in his childhood like he needed to be ready to defend himself.

OK, if we cut through all the therapy speak here and translate this into plain English, what he has said to you is, "I don't mind you saying something bothers you as long as you make it clear that this is a you problem and I don't actually have to do anything about it."

He's saying that you're entitled to feel however you feel, but not entitled to expect any effort from him.

But what if it's a him problem?

For example, what's bothering you is that you are engaged to a man who is a rude dickhead towards his colleagues. Basically he wants you to say that the problem is not him being a rude dickhead, the problem is you not liking the fact that he's a rude dickhead. So you can continue to not like it - he doesn't care - as long as you don't expect him to stop being a rude dickhead.

I know you said you didn't want any "put him in the bin" advice, but, seriously, put him in the bin.

Good things should not be this much hard work.

If you've been at this for years and you still haven't resolved your communication issues, you're probably never going to.

I’d be amazed if any of your conversations got you anywhere at all ever. It’s like you’re participating in some kind of pussyfooting olympics. Your communication style is incredibly inefficient and that comes from someone who’s done a lot of therapy. If this is how your therapists suggest you communicate with each other I think it might be time to find a new one, especially if you actually want to get somewhere.

This feels like a ‘him’ problem to me. It also feels deep rooted, probably from childhood, linked to getting in trouble/ being caught out / shame. He needs to address this in his own therapy, which will ideally be depth based (schema therapy, psychodynamic therapy etc) as something like CBT won’t really touch the surface. I could be wrong of course but I have experience with this sort of thing.

If you are interested in therapy you could look up Dan Hughes Shield of Shame which can be insightful.

This is exhausting to deal with and you are not his therapist, personally I would keep a time limit in mind for when I would hope to see a significant improvement. And be prepared to walk away.

Jesus this just sounds ridiculous. I'm assuming you're both in your 20s, this navel gazing "I feel", "I feel attacked", "emotional focus" nonsense seems peculiarly generational.
Basically you're not suited.

Were your partner’s parents overly controlling and critical and therefore is he reacting based on treatment growing up?

Being single is better than this, OP.

We had another one of these conversations today where I wanted to bring up something that had rubbed me the wrong way in a previous conversation (he spoke to a coworker in a way that was very rude in front of me). Important context here is that my fiance has urged me since the beginning of our relationship to always tell him when something bothers me, and he gets upset if he finds out later that I didn’t discuss something with him when I was feeling it.

Are you sure he meant for you to tell him when you are bothered by how he spoke to a third party when it literally had no impact on you? And is not your business? And you have no idea as to the larger context- some work colleagues do have a ribbing type tone that sound rude to an outsider but it’s how they rub along perfectly happily.

I would have thought the “tell me when something bothers you” would apply to how he speaks to you or treats you? Or a close family member? Not a work mate of his that you have no connection to and no idea what their relationship is like. You’re not the work colleague or your fiancé’s line manager so you really shouldn’t be telling him how to manage his work relations.

In addition, it is impossible to broach a topic of this thing you do bothers me without it feeling a criticism/attack by the recipient just like it is impossible for the recipient to offer an explanation or mitigating circumstances without it feeling like defensiveness/excuses to you. There isn’t any way to fancy talk your way out of these feelings as they are a natural, human reaction to this type of conversation.

Just acknowledge that a criticism is an attack and the explanation is a defence. There is nothing wrong with having conflicts in a relationship- with attack and defence, they all have them. The goal is not to have a relationship with zero conflicts, that isn’t what therapy is supposed to get you to, it is an impossible goal post. The key to couples therapy is learn healthy conflict management in a way that is respectful and mutually satisfactory even if it is to agree to disagree on a subject. But you’re always going to have the feelings, it’s what you do with them that matters not the fact you and him feel them.

Sounds exhausting and awful.

He's told you there is no possibility of change, so he’s saying you have to suck it up and either never raise anything that bothers you, or accept he will be childish and shitty and aggressive to you if you do.

And as you don’t want to leave him, take your pick.

(Eventually the relationship will end though OP).

This!!

Why do you feel bound to return to couples counselling instead of just ending the relationship?

How many more years are you prepared to dedicate to working at this communication - at the opportunity cost of a relationship without all of this angst?

Oh, the fragile male ego! Which blends seamlessly with controlling behaviour, eventually turning into plain abuse. He’ll tell you you’re nagging next 🙄.
Look, you seem hell bent on learning the hard way. At least make him foot the bill for therapy. When it’s all done, come back, we’ll support you. You’re not the first or the last one.

Honestly.. chuck him back.
Your style of writing suggests you’re very emotional intelligent (perhaps it just me… ) but almost too theory based and perfect in your approach towards each other. It is tiring to read.

Gosh it sounds so dull and over analytical. I simply couldn’t be bothered. If you’re having to have therapy and scrutiny to this degree, I’d say give up. A relationship should be loving, fun and rewarding, not anxiety inducing or emotionally taxing.

On the simplest level, OP, is there any joy left here in this situation?

If not, then have a ponder.

Emotionally intelligent but using way too many words is the theme of my life...lol.
It gets worse when I'm emotional too for sure. May be part of my contribution to this problem.

There is a lot of joy. It's definitely one of those when you're in a good groove, it's great kind of things. The bad is less but it's harder for sure.

You and your fiance do not have "excellent communication". Quite the opposite.