What is wrong with young men?

[PortiasBiscuit]

DD 21yo , is beautiful, funny, intelligent and kind. Is asked out on dates all the time. Goes along on 3 or 4 dates, told she is all those things and more. Constant texting, plans for weekend trips and can’t wait to see you. Talk for hours.
Then .. nothing. One before last claimed his Granny had died so he couldn’t see her.
This has happened 5 or 6 times recently, every time I can see her confidence shrinking. Everytime she is hopeful it might be different. She’s not after marriage or settling down, just a bit of companionship and fun. What the hell is going on?

I don't think this is necessarily anything to do with current issues like social media, online dating, pornhub etc. I came across many men like this in the early 90s, hence why I didn't really have any serious relationships until well into my 20s, and they were all with older guys. The younger ones either weren't interested in anything beyond a couple of dates and a quick shag or were already taken. I just think men mature much more slowly and very differently to women, and a lot of them can't be bothered putting any kind of effort in. Mates, family, jobs, hobbies, they all come first before any girl.

She will find someone eventually who's just as into her as she is into him. Unfortunately she just has to wade through the rest of them first.

I think apps just make dating dysfunctional, every person I know using them says they just get ghosted even after some good dates. Too much choice and then people can't stop looking rather than focusing on what's on front of them. I don't think it's necessarily that they just want sex it's that they can't help thinking 'but maybe I'm just one swipe away from the 100% right one' and I think women are doing that just as much as men

I suspect there will be a big pushback again apps soon as everyone gets tired of them.

She is going for the wrong type plus tall, good looking solvent men will have options. Unfortunately there aren’t that many of them!

"told she is all those things and more. Constant texting, plans for weekend trips and can’t wait to see you. Talk for hours."

She needs to develop and tune in to her bullshit radar, because all the above are red flags. She's young though – it's takes a while to build up the experience.

I know but the lads that she's going out with were described as tall and good looking. These lads have all the options so will be less likely to commit, especially around uni age.

I don't actually think a man's height and any related boost in romantic opportunities dictates their character or behaviour.

I don't think the players would be any less players if they weren't as tall. They'd still be trying to play, they'd still be taking their opportunities, they'd still be "shopping" around. They might just not get women as easily or in such high numbers. They'd still get them though - if good looking, outgoing etc.

Likewise I don't think the non players become players, just because they have a decent amount of opportunities.
I know tall, attractive guys who settle into steady relationships, if they are inclined to and want them. Being tall and attractive doesn't turn them into players, if they're not that way inclined at that point in their life. If they're the "settle young and want a steady relationship" type, they're that type.

Among the player type, being talk might be an advantage .. but being talk doesn't make someone the player type.

The point of the thread, imho, is that op's DD is meeting player types and not recognising them as such. Or not considering they may br players and investing too much too early and giving them too much time

Up to 2am chatting, letting them waste her time and make her tired?
Intense communication relatively early on.

She needs boundaries with these guys and she needs to consider the possibility that they may be players who flitter away when they aren't getting sex early enough and when another opportunity comes their way.

I think it’s opportunity that often turns men into players which increase depending on circumstances. A friend dated a footballer when we were younger. He was a nice guy but she couldn’t handle the fact so many women would literally throw themselves at him in front of her, I often witnessed it too. It was a huge mind fuck & that was before social media.

The point of the thread, imho, is that op's DD is meeting player types and not recognising them as such. Or not considering they may br players and investing too much too early and giving them too much time

Agree with that.

Why is she up chatting with these men at 2am? Doesn't she have to get up in the morning for work?

I can't help thinking that the men who keep women up chatting so late at night are testing boundaries and seeing how far they can push. If your daughter had a cut-off time that was earlier, 10am for example, perhaps they wouldn't be monopolising her time because they would have less of her time available to them.

I have no opinion of first date sex; it works for some and for many it doesn't. Up to each woman to decide for herself.

These men have a whole host of options, and women chase after them.

Shes 21yo , not 12. They were chatting, she thought they had a connection and she was enjoying his company.
Have you never fancied anyone?

I think what @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe is suggesting is she's making herself too available. If she firmly said at 930 "lovely chatting I'm going to bed now" they'd be left wanting more, she's giving herself to them rather than making them earn access to her.

It does sound like the classic trying too hard. If you want a boyfriend you give out a mystical desperate energy. If you don’t want one they come around like flies.

There’s probably even more of that energy if your mum wants it too!

This is kinda weird ..... The op's DD is a beautiful, smart, funny,, good prospects etc. young woman.

Who do you think good looking young men choose when they get into steady relationships.

There's no reason it wouldn't be op's DD.
She's not looking outside her league (and leagues are rather vague anyway).

She just has to meet one who's interested in steady relationship.

(Also she's very young, the guys are probably likewise very young. A good portion of them will probably not be thinking of getting into steady serious relationships after this point).

I think she's just running into the fact that so many are just looking for casual sex at this age.

Also the more confident/forward ones in approaching her, are probably the player type.

Also, guys who approach and pull in clubs ..are likely to be player-ish.

She might be better meeting men through hobbies, sports etc.

But these men jump in with both feet. It’s her that’s saying maybe 4 dates on 5 days is too much.

Isn't this a sort of love bombing - which she should be recognising as a flag.

I know she's young but this is an opportunity to learn that very full on, overly enthusiastic, unmeasured, too much too soon guys ...might not actually be genuine or well adjusted.

Don’t worry, she’s learning, some would say the hard way. Today she is just a little more cynical and a little less confident.

It's horrible, but ..... I suppose every woman has to learn that not all men, in fact the minority of men, are looking for a relationship

If she starts with the assumption that they are, it's going to be very disappointing and maybe upsetting.

If she starts with the assumption that they may well not be .... It's a better viewpoint from which to deal with whatever happens

I'm inclined to think these guys are similar to the older (right up to quite old!) men looking for sex and casual sexual relationships on e.g. OLD. They project their agenda (sex or at most fwb type stuff) onto women ...they believe women might want that too (most don't but ..),.

If thet get interest and indulgence from a woman, they get very excited and happy and carried away with the prospect that this attractive women is "up for it" with them. That's the point at which they often shock and severely disappoint the woman with dick pics and or overtly sexual comments .... when their thinking and agenda shines through.

I think these young men are getting carried away with excitement at the assumption that this good looking girl is interested in them. She may actually only be interested in a potential relationship but because they're primarily seeking sex and casual sexual relationships they project that onto her. Their entire mentality is excitement and triumph at getting a "fish" caught on their hook. They want to rush the interaction along to the sex.

I presume (just speculating) that it becomes clear in the ongoing communication and dates that your DD is not looking for sex or a fwb ..but actually thinking along dating and relationship lines .... And they bail out. Because that's not what they're looking for and also because - in a weird way - they're moral enough not to want to lie to her, deceive her, use her etc when they realise she's thinking along relationship lines. I'd imagine they are also constantly trying to pull through whatever channels and they'll probably come across other girls who look like they might be up for it, so they'll change focus to them.

I can't speak for the guy she used to know who came into her workplace, but the guys approaching/getting talking in clubs ...that's usually not a place where shyer, less confident, less player type guys thrive. The opposite. So those guys are bar guys and possible fuck boys anyway.

a little less confident.

Maybe you can assure her that her confidence shouldn't be attached to random men's agendas.

Their agenda is likely not a steady (potentially long term) relationship; so it's nothing to do with her if they bail when they realise hers is.

It's different agendas/wants ... Nothing to do with her attractiveness or value.

She should also have it pointed out to her that that sort of intense, OTT, full on, unmeasured attention and contact early on ...is not a sign of a well adjusted man with an agenda of getting to know someone, dating steadily and building a relationship.

I presume she's looking for men of a similar age. The problem with most men that age is that they're basically sentient meat turnips who aren't ready for a relationship. I'd tell her to pull right back on the texting like mad - she's probably coming across as far too available and a bit needy - and to treat early dates as new friendships rather than jumping in with both feet. She doesn't 'need' a boyfriend. She just wants one.

Tell her to play it cooler and to build up her life so it is too full to go on four dates in five days. It's always good not to be 100% free and available. She needs to be busy, committed to things that are really important to her at least 50% of the time. Fitness classes, career skills training, creative hobbies, seeing friends and family. She needs short, mid and long term plans that she's really looking forward to or working towards, so that dating takes on less importance in her life until she truly falls in love eith a man who deserves her.