What is wrong with young men?

[PortiasBiscuit]

DD 21yo , is beautiful, funny, intelligent and kind. Is asked out on dates all the time. Goes along on 3 or 4 dates, told she is all those things and more. Constant texting, plans for weekend trips and can’t wait to see you. Talk for hours.
Then .. nothing. One before last claimed his Granny had died so he couldn’t see her.
This has happened 5 or 6 times recently, every time I can see her confidence shrinking. Everytime she is hopeful it might be different. She’s not after marriage or settling down, just a bit of companionship and fun. What the hell is going on?

There's no shortage of attractive young women.

And there's no shortage of attractive young men either.

She didn't cheat on him because he was away on a cruise for what, 14 days max. (?) and she was "lonely".

If you're truly lonely, you gave the option of friends, acquaintances, family etc. Even just taking your laptop to Costa and sitting there. Or going to a meet up group. You don't cheat on your partner because you're temporarily "lonely" fof a matter of days.
(And with contemporary communications, you'd have thought they could have been regularly chatting and videoing anyway).

She obviously built something up with the guy at work, she obvious acted on it - she used the excuse of 'loneliness" while he was on holiday to get a tiny violin going and lessen her responsibility and agency. A person committed to their partner does not cheat on them when they're on holiday cause they're "lonely.

There is if they have to be tall as well.

I would totally agree. DS is 20 and has a lot of female “friends”, a bit spoilt for choice really. But has admitted that he is not interested in a relationship because it would be unfair to any girl who wanted a proper relationship. So he flits around like a butterfly avoiding anything serious. I think it it partly due to his first love being very controlling, and he isn’t ready to fall into that trap again. He has never had to try to attract women, unlike some of his friends, who then attach themselves quickly.

They all think he is lovely and are happy to hang out with him, but having been hurt himself he doesn’t want to hurt anyone else. He is upfront with anyone he goes out with, but I suspect as soon as they behave in the slightest bit controlling he becomes a fridge.
Both DH and I were the same and were in our late 20s when we got together, the timing was just right for us and we have been together for over 30yrs.

When he is ready he will settle down, but at the moment I think he wants to find someone where he feels mutual attraction rather than constantly being pursued.

Both sexes can be put off by an over enthusiastic potential partner maybe suggest that your daughter plays it cool and continues to live the single life until both are ready. I know I was always turned off by future planning.

It is such a shame that young people rely so heavily on dating apps. There are so many better ways to meet people. Sports and hobby’s are a good start. Socialising with people who have common interests is a great way to meet a future partner. Online dating seems to be such a lazy and limiting way to find your future partner. You may be rejecting people who if you met face to face may be an instant hit.

I need to tell my DS this...works in the City, reasonably good looking (tall, athletic) seems to think that the girls just want "one night stands" which he's not into. He wants moonlight and "love" too!

it's like going out with someone now is seen as such a commitment by guys that they won't do it.

dd suggested going to nandos for a third date and the lad told her that a meal out was too much commitment 😳

Oh OP she's meeting them in clubs... Why are you (and her) so surprised at this happening?
There's so much online about guys being players and trying to 'pull' in clubs. But also these guys don't want a girlfriend. Just an ego boost. They're tall and good-looking (or so you say) there'll be plenty of women throwing themselves at them. Sorry.

While @Angrymum22 I agree dating apps aren't great and you can get ghosted, at least people can declare their intentions upfront with some, like Bumble. Don't date the people looking for an ONS/'casual dating'/'friends with benefits'.

The only foolproof way to met a guy the real, 'old-fashioned' way is to do a regular hobby. Not only do you have shared interests you're less likely to be messed about by someone you'll be seeing fairly regularly.

Easier said than done though.

Well where is he finding these girls 😂

Tell her to hold the sex back and to make herself high value and make them work for her! Strangely men seem to enjoy chasing and the better the chase the harder they fall in my experience.

The most forward ones are the dickheads just trying their luck.

I absolutely loathe The Rules, Men Date Bitches and all such 'game playing' guides. But this quote's spot on and it took me FAR too long to work it out for myself!

It's best to do your own selecting, be pro-active. OK, you'll get a few knockbacks but, ime, they're usually polite and you might even make a new friend here and there.

I was unaware that you are besties with his ex girlfriend and she shared all this with you? Or that in reality you have never met them and have no idea and are wildly guessing very incorrectly.

Partners cheat all the time for lots of reasons including being lonely, do you not read the mumsnet posts?! 🤣🤣🤣

Really this is just missing the point which is it is not okay to just bash on men constantly. It is not supposed to be misandrynet. It is shit to lump all young men as the same which is what is happening on this thread.

Who the fuck cares what they expect? Just because other people expect something doesn't mean you have to go along with them.

The op didn't suggest being tall is a deal breaker for her DD, she just mentioned these guys are tall & good-looking in the context of posters suggesting they may be players etc.

V few women I know require men to be tall, if they are attracted to them.
Most just prefer the man is as tall or taller than them, which most men are!
Thinking otherwise is incel thinking.

Partners cheat all the time for lots of reasons including being lonely

Cheaters don't cheat cause they're "lonely" for 14 days (with WhatsApp, video calling etc available) and presumably not being locked in a room on their own.

Anyone who truly believes a cheater cheats because they're "lonely" (because their other half is elsewhere for a matter of days) is too naive to navigate life.

It's an excuse.
Like most of the reasons cheaters claim they cheat.
They don't say why they really cheat because it is unpalatable and makes them look shit.

I have no idea how this could be confusing to anyone.

Op ..they're after sex.

They are, in recent parlance, "fuck boys".

Your DD is not having sex quickly or indicating she will have sex quickly.

The young women who do so, will be either having sex quickly because they also want sex, or having sex quickly because it's expected/they feel they should/they have low self esteem/they think they'll get a relationship out of it/they're gullible etc. etc.

Your DD does not. She wants a boyfriend and she's not going to have sex for the sake of it or because her self esteem is low etc.

They can see that.

They therefore move on to women they believe they will get sex quickly from.

And, in our culture, they will get that.

Your DD just needs to find young men who are not looking for casual sex, not prioritising getting notches on their bed post & fulfilling their porn goals (sex with as many women as possible, the different races, the threesome, the milf, anal etc etc. That's how they think).

A young man open to a relationship may be harder to find than sex seekers but she only needs one.

She should absolutely not be letting them waste as much of her time, and investing as much in them - in the early part, like she appears to be doing.

Does she have lots of friends and a decent social life? I feel like she is too young to be on OLD and should just be making the most of her time.
If she's unaffected by this all then I assume she knows what she is doing and is just enjoying herself. Tough though when so many are settling in to longer term relationships.

I was unaware that you are besties with his ex girlfriend

Bull shit needs no introduction.

OP, I think it can be just as hard for the young men, too.

My son is 26. He's educated, has a decent job and is ambitious but not to the exclusion of everything else, is kind, funny, has interests and hobbies. Doesn't multidate.

He's met women at work, through hobbies and online. He knows he's not perfect (in the sense that no one is not because he's a deviant or majorly flawed!) He actively reflects, learns and has adopted the mantra of becoming the best version of yourself. It's something we talk about.

He socialises and drinks in moderation, doesn't go out and get pissed, doesn't flirt with other women, doesn't take drugs, doesn't play games, doesn't go awol. He wants a sexual relationship with a partner (as most of us do) but is happy to wait for a woman's timescales without pushiness (yes, he did acknowledge that telling me this might have been oversharing a little but we've always discussed consent and relationships in general).

I've brought him up, after all, and brought him up to be the sort of man I'd want to date basically.

He currently has a male flatmate and they both joke that he's turning his housemate into a good husband. He's previously had female flatmates and they've said he's the best they've had in terms of housework, cleanliness etc. He's not looking for someone to look after him.

But he comes up against the same issues many young women complain about - flakiness, haven't got over an ex yet, no direction in life, think he's just what they're looking for but they aren't ready for a relationship yet.

He'd love to meet someone, settle down, start a family and build a life together.

He's essentially in the same boat as a lot of women who know what they want but can't find a man who wants it too. In theory, he should have an abundance of choice but it just doesn't work like that.

I also said ‘the OP’s dd might WANT to have sex after a couple of dates too.
She is 21yo. She has the libido of a 21yo. Who says it’s not ok for women to want to have sex and that they have to be hard to get etc….?

Or is it also a case of who cares what SHE expects too?

If she wants to have sex, that's fine, but I still don't see why she would need to have sex with every guy she dates if that is not what she wants. She doesn't have to care what they expect. It takes two to consent to sex anyway.

Exactly! Plenty of women just want casual sex as well as men, especially in their twenties!

No she doesn’t have to have sex with every guy she dates.
But that’s also what she has done if I understand well. And there is nothing wrong with that as it was consensual.

Her issue is that she wants it to become more and the guys she has met don’t.
And you know what? It’s ok too. She can’t expect them to want the whole bf/gf experience because they’ve slept together either.

And it certainly doesn’t mean there is something wrong with all men, as the OP suggests.

You're missing my point.

Right now she only dates one guy at a time. My suggestion is that she dates multiple untill she finds one she want to be stable with. If she still wants to have sex while dating around with some of them, she can, but it's entirely optional.

She might be less inclined to sleep with any of them if she has multiple guys on rotation, though, and that's perfectly fine.

My top advice would be for her not to sleep with him until they have established a relationship.
Aside from that, in my 20s, I would date men a few years older as they tend to have settled down abit.