Sister self-identifying as ASD is now identifying rest of family as ASD

[Kipsmum]

That's it, really. Two years ago my DS, in her late 50s, was divorced by my DBIL after 28 years of marriage. She's always been prickly and as she's aged I and my DB and DBIL have had to tiptoe around her more and more delicately. During the divorce process she went to a counsellor and since then has communicated with us in 'therapy speak'. Everything is about her, her feelings and her speaking her truth. My DB and I listened and nodded and tried to support her and we hoped she'd emerge the other side of therapy happier and easier to get along with.

Now she's sent us several massive WA messages to explain that she's done an online questionnaire and has diagnosed herself as ASD. She's started saying that both our parents were ASD and she also says my brother is ASD. She cites things like the fact that my parents were quiet people who only had a small social circle, as proof. She's said my dad had no friends and I gently reminded her that he belong to the bowling club and also the local cricket club and had friends from his allotment: they all came to his funeral. She's said the same of my mum and I've pointed out that Mum had a number of friends she was regularly in touch with and until she died had several holidays a year with those friends or her sister or other relatives. She also volunteered in a charity shop and did day one evening classes and made friends there. My sister is furious when I point these inconvenient facts out.

My DB is a quiet, family-orientated man like my father and DS says this is proof he's ASD, but DB's certainly not a black-and-white thinker and has no issues with communication and social skills, let alone the more obvious indications of ASD. DS has been angry with him because he's told her he thinks she's got this wrong.

We have no idea what to do or what to say. Unless we just nod and agree with her, DS gets very angry with us. If anyone has any idea of what's going on, please shine a light.

Just let her get angry. Don’t enable- you’re just feeding the “feels” monster. Tell her to get a proper diagnosis or STFu- that’s the great thing about siblings- no need to be polite to them 🤣🤣🤣

Maybe, but we're a polite kind of family — we tend to avoid conflict where possible. DS is the odd one out.

I would urge her to go for an assessment and diagnosis, otherwise you don’t want to hear anymore.

Well then you just gotta grey rock- so just go “mmm, interesting”. Or start making up new diagnoses for her so go “yeah, with all this talk of neuro- diversity, you got me thinking- I googled the symptoms and I think you might also have ADHD and bipolar and also maybe narcissism because you keep talking about yourself”.

OK , even if you all were ASD ....so what? They are people also and deserve a life.

Refuting her evidence won't work, not least because the reasons you've given aren't relevant (do you think all people with ASD sit at home with no friends or hobbies?)

However you don't need to engage with her about it, a polite encouragement for her to seek her own support, (I say support rather than diagnosis because she may not have the option of getting assessed - where I live the nhs won't offer assessments to adults at all, and private is ££££) and a reminder that it's not up to her to diagnose other people who may not have any interest in whether they could be neurodivergent.

Just smile and say ‘ok!’ What response would she give?! It’s a dead end.

Nobody here knows whether your family are autistic. You don’t seem to know much about autism, and it’s up to you whether you want to learn more, or just dismiss it.

Refuting her evidence won't work, not least because the reasons you've given aren't relevant (do you think all people with ASD sit at home with no friends or hobbies?)

No, but my sister does.

@Kipsmum you've said she mentioned them having a small social circle and no friends. It's very common for people with autism to have 'friends' they know through hobby clubs, who they consider friends, but wouldn't fit the average NT persons definition of friends.

If you're not interested though, don't engage with her. But she may well have a point. It's not an unreasonable thing to be curious about.

How is it different to NT friends? I meet people at my hobby club and enjoy their company and consider them friends. Going to their funeral and on holiday with them would be supportive of the fact they are friends. Why is this different to a NT friend?

You sound just like my sister.

Sister it’s just not up to you to diagnose us with anything. If we were interested in pursuing ideas about our neurotype then we would discuss it privately with appropriate professionals. Please leave this alone.

repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

@Kipsmum , interesting you say that, given I'm late diagnosed autistic.

@hamsandyams I appreciate it's not a binary split, but I've understood after a while that my friendships are different to the type of relationships that NT tend to consider friends, and it's something that's common for people who are autistic (though of course, there's still variation)

For me, my friends are generally people I meet through a shared interest. I see them in the context of that interest. That's what we talk about. I like them, I enjoy their company. It wouldn't occur to me to contact them outside of said hobby.

For NT people, friendships tend to be more nuanced. Eg friends to go out with and have fun, friends who you would phone for emotional support, a different level of closeness. Friendships can change eg move from say, acquaintances you have at a hobby group to people you might go to dinner with, or visit other people's houses etc.

For me, and a lot of people with autism, friendships start and end with the shared interest. I don't know how to progress friendships beyond that, and if it does happen it's usually because I've met someone who is very sociable and extrovert and does all the work to invite me to things. And I say that as a professional, who is considered by societies standards to be 'successful', but there's some aspects of being human that are just a bit beyond me. People who don't know I'm autistic tend to assume I'm independent, just introverted, or at worst, a bit aloof/indifferent.

Basically people with autism often get as far as what many people who are neurotypical would consider an 'acquaintance' and think 'job done, I've made a friend' and not realise there's more to it than that. And then get confused when they realise that other people in said group are socialising outside of the group and realise that they're outside looking in.

I've got a friend who is self diagnosed as ADHD - she is lovely, but talks a LOT about this. She has told me before that she thinks I'm ND. I don't think I am- (I do think I'm a bit weird,) but it's a strange thing having someone tell you they think that you are something, that you don't feel you are! My husband is on the list to to be diagnosed with ASD, (this will take years, but he has only done this so our Autistic daughter isn't on her own with diagnosis- but assuming he is right and is ND, it doesn't affect him at all, he loves his career and life ) I have a sibling who has severe autism, along with other diagnosis, and can't live independently. There is a big trend now to self diagnose- (and it may well be true for your sister. )However, I think in your place id keep closing down her going on about this to you, and affecting you with this, by repeatedly encouraging her to go for diagnosis. I think the huge population of people self diagnosing, is quite troubling- as it's not always a helpful thing.

Fwiw I may have thoughts about other family members being ASD, but I would never share that, unless someone sought me out to ask about it.
It's ok to push back against her armchair diagnosing other people. However, getting a diagnosis for herself might not actually be possible, so bear that in mind if you intend to push her down that route.

Could you just sort of Hmmm that's interesting, do you think it would be valuable to get an official diagnosis?

@Kipsmum My DD has an actual NHS diagnosis of ASD and has always loved other kids. This was discussed in her assessment and pointed out that many autistic people are highly social and that it's a myth that they are anti social.
You need to tell your sister to get a proper diagnosis as she's harming those who are diagnosed as the he more people who self diagnose, the less seriously the general public take the very mention of ASD.
I'm already starting to see it whenever we go anywhere and I need^^ to mention her autism (she's only a child) and I get the eye roll. I've already had a few people mutter "yeah sure she is, diagnosed by Dr Google?!" under their breath.

It INFURIATES me

Nail on head! This is one of those MN posts that will stick with me 👍🏻 (re: my DD) thank you 🙏

@VegTrug aw I'm glad it helped as I was a little bit afraid that I was going to find a post telling me that I was talking rubbish!
Its not very easy to explain, because of course there are say, NT who are introverts, and people who are a bit anti social, and people dismiss it as an extension of that. But it is different, it's missing out on the cues/code to know different levels of relationship. My assessor helped me to understand that I see everyone as either friend, foe, or irrelevant. And it was a pretty sobering experience to get to my forties and realised that I'd never understood that friendships need work to maintain them, and that's not something on my radar at all. Hence the friends I have held on to, are the ones who make the calls, send the invites, keep up the communication etc..

Also going back to the OP, fwiw my communication skills are my career. I've worked as a counsellor, various mental health roles and now social services. Humans are pretty much my special interest. It's all consciously learned behaviour though, none of it is intuitive. I pretty much calculate and theorise what other people are doing and thinking and feeling, and respond by mimicking what I've observed by others. The effect is being someone who appears socially adept, and the outcome is the same, but the means to get there (and the energy expenditure) is very different.

None of this is to say that your sister does have autism, just that your reasons for dismissing it aren't as concrete as you think.

Thank you: interesting perspective on the situation. I can see how infuriating it could be. I've gently suggested that DS gets properly diagnosed and been told there's no need, it's clear as day to her and she hasn't got £1000s to spend on a private diagnosis and can't wait years for an NHS one.

‘Hey sis - not sure if you’re aware but you’re being really annoying. Stop going on. Continue with therapy if it’s helping but maybe bring up that you need to start working on life/social skills. Xx’

Or maybe something a bit more polite.

She may be autistic but we will never know unless she seeks a professional diagnosis. Until she has that it feels really inappropriate of her to be forcibly co-opting other members of the family, and rewriting history, in order to support her conviction that she has ASD. My parents are dead so she can't hurt them, but DS's speculation about our DB feels really offensive to him and to me — and surely our feelings count?

You make some interesting observations regarding friendship. I know a number of people who, if I didn't keep things ticking over with invitations and arrangements to meet, I'd never see or hear from again. I've tended to assume that they have no real interest in maintaining a connection with me if they don't reciprocate and usually let the relationship fade out. Someone would have to be really interesting and good company for me to continually do all the work, and even then I'd eventually feel resentful about the imbalance.

When I read this, I wonder why it's offensive to be considered autistic?
It's a neurotype and a common one.
As part of some one considering this diagnosis for themselves, they can often seek to see it in other family members as there are often more in the family.
She's going through a lot, and trying to make sense of it, even though it doesn't look constructive from the outside.

It can be used as an excuse in life. Why does everything need a diagnosis now. It is like finding religion, they can excuse parts of themselves they can't deal with. One of my family members was recently suggested as autistic. She's not, she just gets on with it all, just keeps moving forward and doesn't expend energy on people or conversations because that is how she has had to live to come out on top of a bad beginning. It is not offensive, it does no good for anyone who is autistic though. It dilutes it and makes a mockery of the condition.