Sister self-identifying as ASD is now identifying rest of family as ASD

[Kipsmum]

That's it, really. Two years ago my DS, in her late 50s, was divorced by my DBIL after 28 years of marriage. She's always been prickly and as she's aged I and my DB and DBIL have had to tiptoe around her more and more delicately. During the divorce process she went to a counsellor and since then has communicated with us in 'therapy speak'. Everything is about her, her feelings and her speaking her truth. My DB and I listened and nodded and tried to support her and we hoped she'd emerge the other side of therapy happier and easier to get along with.

Now she's sent us several massive WA messages to explain that she's done an online questionnaire and has diagnosed herself as ASD. She's started saying that both our parents were ASD and she also says my brother is ASD. She cites things like the fact that my parents were quiet people who only had a small social circle, as proof. She's said my dad had no friends and I gently reminded her that he belong to the bowling club and also the local cricket club and had friends from his allotment: they all came to his funeral. She's said the same of my mum and I've pointed out that Mum had a number of friends she was regularly in touch with and until she died had several holidays a year with those friends or her sister or other relatives. She also volunteered in a charity shop and did day one evening classes and made friends there. My sister is furious when I point these inconvenient facts out.

My DB is a quiet, family-orientated man like my father and DS says this is proof he's ASD, but DB's certainly not a black-and-white thinker and has no issues with communication and social skills, let alone the more obvious indications of ASD. DS has been angry with him because he's told her he thinks she's got this wrong.

We have no idea what to do or what to say. Unless we just nod and agree with her, DS gets very angry with us. If anyone has any idea of what's going on, please shine a light.

OP, as mother to an autistic child and someone on the WL for assessment myself I have found some of the posts on this thread a bit tricky (not necessarily yours, it's a long thread).

However, I'm really impressed by your openness to hearing other poster's experiences and trying to do your best for your sister whilst putting in appropriate boundaries that are absolutely essential for your own wellbeing.

Thank you. I feel as if I'm on a roller-coaster ride at the moment, but that things that have weighed me down for years, like why DSis seemed so angry and aggressive towards us, no matter how hard we tried to respectful and loving, have shifted if not lifted. I think of how much my lovely mum must have been through. I saw someone quoting 'A parent cannot be happier than their saddest child' somewhere the other day and my heart breaks for Mum, because my sister has never been happy. My heart breaks for DSis, too, of course.

And a little bit for me. I'm indebted to a number of people here for their input.

Sounds a lot like my sister who was diagnosed with ADHD. We used to receive long letters filled with everything we had ever done wrong, most of which came as news to us. She went on meds both for the ADHD and meds for depression/anxiety and our relationship has been a lot better.

I think if it were said to me, in relation to the fact that I grew up feeling defective, out of place and wrong, I’d feel quite angry. Because there was a massive power imbalance, and the whole world against me, when I was just a child.

I've been reflecting on this. I understand that she (may have) felt that the whole world was against her and she was powerless. From my perspective I also know that the whole world wasn't against her and she did have power.

I had psychotherapy about 30 years ago: I was in a bad relationship and couldn't find a way out. I can remember being encouraged to take responsibility for my feelings and accept the fact that what I felt was my stuff to deal with.

Is it possible for those with autism or EUPD to take that on board? Is it a possibility that DSis will ever be able to say 'I feel this, but I know those are my feelings and I don't expect you to feel the same way?'

Hmmm, as a child, you think she had power? How many of us do, as a child?

It’s definitely possible for an autistic person to understand that people see things differently. I think I have a real tendency as an autistic person to think that if I explain things over and over again, people will understand and feel the same. That it’s a case of finding the right words. That can make me a bit like a dog with a bone and it’s very hard for me to shift perspective and hold the two conflicting points of view. It’s taken me a long time to accept that I can’t, and shouldn’t, try to force others to share my perspective. So I think it’s probably harder than it is for neurotypical people. It’s extra hard when it concerns your own life I think! Because that different perspective can be hugely invalidating. Invalidation is very tricky and it’s possible to validate without agreeing. I think your sister might have felt invalidated by your comment and that has triggered her.

This, with bells on.

^I can remember being encouraged to take responsibility for my feelings and accept the fact that what I felt was my stuff to deal with.
Is it possible for those with autism or EUPD to take that on board? Is it a possibility that DSis will ever be able to say 'I feel this, but I know those are my feelings and I don't expect you to feel the same way?'^

It depends on the person and how they are and what they choose but in principle the answer to this is a big fat YES Also for PTSD. Again, I've observed a number of people who have done this.

Having said that, there are individuals who are too damaged too young or who choose not to take responsibility for their emotions and actions. In the case of the close relative with EUPD she was extremely badly damaged very young and never had the external stability or support to manage to internally stabilize, though in fairness she flailed around trying but failed. Her daughter, who also has EUPD, cooperated with treatment and has indeed taken responsibility for her actions and emotions. She isn't cured but manages.

It really depends on the person and if the difficulties they face will drive them to seek treatment / help, or not.

I think at this point the best things you can do is 1) look after yourself and 2) do some reading on how best to talk to someone with fairly heavy trauma. In your sister's case it does seem to be heavy trauma, whatever any underlying diagnosis, as she's been so angry and blaming you for so long.

Hmmm, as a child, you think she had power? How many of us do, as a child?

I think that depends on what you think of as power. I know several parents involved in power struggles with quite small children, for example. And certainly my mum was the kind of person who would listen and change things: I can think of a couple of examples relating to me as I grew up. But not total power, obviously.

Please tell me how to validate without agreeing: that would be very useful with DSis. Saying 'I can see your point of view' is the best solution I've managed, but very frustrating because then I don't get validated.

I'm going out for the evening shortly, and I have commitments tomorrow and over the weekend. I hope to be able to come back here occasionally but may not have the ability.

It sounds annoying that your sister won't let this go.
However you maybe need to examine your own prejudices given that you find it "offensive" that your DS is suggesting certain people in your family are/were ND.

Hi OP. I have NC for this. I know the thread had moved on and you might not be back so this message might just disappear.

Your opening post really resonated with me. I have an older brother who seemed to make it his business to diagnoses the rest of the family with mental health problems. It was exhausting as he would send messages sort of appraising our personalities at various times.

If I argued back about something he would double down and go on and on.

We are very different people and I have come to accept that his opinion of me doesn’t count for much. I’m happily married with a good life. He thinks I’m depressed. It’s probably because I just quieten down when he’s around so I can’t be misquoted.

this all kicked off about 6 years ago and with a bit of time and distance we’re in a better place.

If I think of him as having ASD then weirdly it helps me forgive his accusations.

Been thinking about your question.

Might it help if you you say that clearly up to this point you haven't been able to understand her perspective but that you'd like to try? that you can't promise to always say the right thing because you don't get it, but that you want to understand? Your experience of your mother was one experience, and you see dimly that hers was different and more hurtful, and you want to understand?

I'm wondering if you kind of put yourself on one side and really listen, putting aside all the times that you want to say 'but ...' and try to kind of get into her shoes, as someone who feels rejected and hurt (no matter how unreasonable it seems or is).

It depends on how far she's willing or able to try to connect and how far she's willing or able to exercise some self-control when you get it 'wrong' (from her perspective).

I wonder, even making the effort if she sees you're sincere, if that will count for something quite valuable. But I really think she needs outside help. You can't do this on your own.

I don't know if anyone will see this, probably not, but I revisited this thread today to remind myself of some of the advice offered and thought I'd update for the hell of it.

I did pretty much what @DucklingSwimmingInstructress suggested in the last post. Tried very hard to listen, empathise, put myself in her shoes. It didn't really seem to move us on. Nothing new came up. I found it very draining. It's much easier to listen to a stranger, where you don't know it they are being unreasonable or not and it doesn't really matter.

My partner and I had a particularly nice Christmas organised with friends and family, so I sent DS a letter in her Christmas card saying that I needed some time out from our conversations and would be back in touch in the new year. She took that rather better than I'd feared.

We've both erected some boundaries. I contact her once a fortnight now. I've tried several times suggesting she sees a therapist because I can't be objective about our relationship. If we're on the phone she ends the call at that point. If we're messaging I get a furious accusation of being a 'fixer'.

The situation she volunteered for last year goes on and on in a predictably draining way — which was why no one else volunteered to do it. She now describes it as a life sentence. I've stopped pointing out that she could drop out any day and the world wouldn't end. For the last few weeks she's fixated on my validating her. I have no idea what she means by validation any more. Saying 'Yes, I believe you, yes I hear what you're saying, and yes, I agree' doesn't seem to be enough. It's almost as if she wants me to recant my memories, recant myself, and become a kind of void. I'm not sure I'm making any sense any more, even to myself.

I'm beginning to feel that going NC is the only recourse I have left. DB has already gone NC. We come from the kind of low-drama family where people managed to rub along even if they didn't like each other very much, so going NC is a huge thing.

I remember your thread very well. You have done brilliantly getting this far in terms of your own progress since you last posted.
Your sister is never going to change, in that she’s not doing much to help herself. If whatever she has is undiagnosed, then it doesn’t give her the right to verbally abuse you.
And she is, these messages sound exhausting. Nothing you do is right, you don’t give her enough. Does she ever ask how you are?
You are a really loving sister but I think you have done more than enough. If you want to try NC then do so. You deserve a life too!

Peggy, I can't believe you remember. Thank you for commenting. You've made me feel quite tearful. We just can't connect in a comfortable way and it's exhausting trying. She needs professional help. 🌺🌺🌺 to you for remembering.