Sister self-identifying as ASD is now identifying rest of family as ASD

[Kipsmum]

That's it, really. Two years ago my DS, in her late 50s, was divorced by my DBIL after 28 years of marriage. She's always been prickly and as she's aged I and my DB and DBIL have had to tiptoe around her more and more delicately. During the divorce process she went to a counsellor and since then has communicated with us in 'therapy speak'. Everything is about her, her feelings and her speaking her truth. My DB and I listened and nodded and tried to support her and we hoped she'd emerge the other side of therapy happier and easier to get along with.

Now she's sent us several massive WA messages to explain that she's done an online questionnaire and has diagnosed herself as ASD. She's started saying that both our parents were ASD and she also says my brother is ASD. She cites things like the fact that my parents were quiet people who only had a small social circle, as proof. She's said my dad had no friends and I gently reminded her that he belong to the bowling club and also the local cricket club and had friends from his allotment: they all came to his funeral. She's said the same of my mum and I've pointed out that Mum had a number of friends she was regularly in touch with and until she died had several holidays a year with those friends or her sister or other relatives. She also volunteered in a charity shop and did day one evening classes and made friends there. My sister is furious when I point these inconvenient facts out.

My DB is a quiet, family-orientated man like my father and DS says this is proof he's ASD, but DB's certainly not a black-and-white thinker and has no issues with communication and social skills, let alone the more obvious indications of ASD. DS has been angry with him because he's told her he thinks she's got this wrong.

We have no idea what to do or what to say. Unless we just nod and agree with her, DS gets very angry with us. If anyone has any idea of what's going on, please shine a light.

You have an HR problem then - requiring somebody to have on OH assessment isn’t something they can sue over.

@Anisty

Did you miss the bit where I said I was diagnosed later in life? I know only too well how the system works. However, getting a diagnosis is not impossible. Just often long winded and challenging.

I have ASD and have tonnes of friends. We aren’t all loners.
It does amuse me the way we are depicted at times.

This is interesting and echoes conversations I’ve had recently with colleagues, one who is diagnosed and one who thinks she may be. I have a similar professional background to yourself. What better way to learn how to relate to people than to study them to this degree? I don’t think it’s that unusual for non NT women particularly to end up in this kind of work. I’m very likely adhd myself.

I echo this. My ds is autistic and I was diagnosed as an adult. The social attitude to ND people who function fairly well is upsetting.

Before I got my diagnosis my family had the same stance as you OP. my mother is extremely defensive if mine ir my kids autism comes up as she won't accept she's likely autistic herself. She thinks all the autistic grand kids are 'normal' because her kids acted the same when they were kid. Except we have all had adult diagnosis. My advice is just drop it with her. Tell her you need to agree to disagree for the sake of the relationship as you will not be changing your mind and fine the topic frustrating. Incidentally the fact she's going on and on about it is kinda autistic! Fairly common for women who realise/get diagnosed as adults to turn ND into a special interest that they talk about and research in a typically autistic special interest way 🤷‍♀️

If your sister is autistic, she may be searching for a 'why' to help her explain it: there does seem to be a familial link sometimes, so she might be trying to find a link between family members and herself to help contextualise it. It's neither here nor there whether your parents were or not, so I'd let that go: focus on telling her not to diagnose your brother (or he can tell her himself) as it's not something he's interested in hearing more about and just ignore the rest.

I think a lot of the difficulty in the OP 's situation (and in so many of the situations being discussed here) is the sheer difficulty/expense of getting an ASD assessment.

It feels like lots of people are walking around with Schrödinger's Autism, and that just makes things more difficult for everyone.

You can't BE ASD!! I have ASD I don't have your sister. Listen if you write it out correctly:
My sister is autistic spectrum disorder. Does not make sense. She isn't the disorder.

It sounds as if she's having a difficult time, which is to be expected with the divorce. Unfortunately I know a few people who have gone down the therapy talk route, and it tends to replace a real personality. But...if their real personality brings them no joy and they feel better speaking in slightly robotic phrases that reframe the world in a way that is comfortable for them then who can say they are wrong?

I would say just don't smile and nod - let her crack on with it as long as she isn't joining a cult or being manipulated. Don't let her tell the rest of you who you are obviously - she sounds like the last person to be giving advice.

Tempted to say 'So what?'
The only issue is really that she's getting on your wick, banging on about it - and you're trying to engage and getting massively frustrated. If she is on the Spectrum then inflexibility of thought is a normal sign, so she won't be dissuaded from her views.
So just don't engage! Say 'I'm happy with who I am - If you're not, then see someone about it'?

I'm autistic and this is exactly what I go through. I am sociable and do want friends but either don't know the 'rules' or can't maintain them.

It sounds like who does or doesn’t have autism isn’t really the problem, the problem is your sister is angry and broadcasting her views and feelings at you - just don’t let her. Move the conversation on, politely close down discussions you’re not comfortable with, limit your contact with her.

I have four siblings and I’m the baby by many years - the best lesson I’ve learnt is I don’t HAVE to do or say anything. Some people just aren’t receptive to listening because of who they are or where they’re at in their life so the only thing you can influence is your response to them.

@ReadWithScepticism people who have been through the NICE guideline compliant diagnostic process have to satisfy the following criteria:

• criterion A: persistent deficits in reciprocal social communication and social interaction
• criterion B: restricted, repetitive patterns of behaviour, interests or activities
• criterion C: symptoms must be present in the early developmental period
• criterion D: symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning
• criterion E: these disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability or global developmental delay.

Are you suggesting that people who are "normal, healthy people who happen to be outliers in respect of a particular set of neurologically influenced characteristics" are being given a diagnosis that is reserved for people who meet the criteria above?

To be fair, I think people are using 'ASD' for 'Autistic'. DD2 says that she is autistic, and likes us to refer to her as 'being autistic', not 'having autism' because her autism is as much a part of her as anything else. She doesn't see it as something she 'has'.

Do you know the OP’s family well, then? I guess you must, to know that everyone is functioning just fine and that a diagnosis wouldn’t benefit anyone?!

Thank you, @WildFigs That's it entirely. I would never dream of telling someone they were autistic.

Why is it offensive? That’s only true if you have a negative view of autism.

@ReadWithScepticism how many people who went to school in the 80's do you know whose parents were asked to take them to a psychologist for low self-esteem at the age of 7?? It wasn't exactly an enlightened era, yet I stuck out enough that the HT asked my mother to take me to a psychologist.

I wasn't allowed to do times tables tests because I got them all right. I wasn't allowed to do maths work in class and had to paint Noah's Ark because I was too far ahead in the text book. I taught other kids to read. I volunteered to wash paint pots at break time to avoid the playground. I managed to make a badly grazed knee last a whole term to avoid the playground. The list goes on.

I’m autistic. I think my sister is, she doesn’t. That’s because she thinks autism means ‘being a bit shit socially’.

She’s an extremely rigid thinker, gets incredibly fixated and inflexible about things, has sensory issues, very poor emotional regulation and has explosive meltdowns. She’s also incredibly rude without meaning to be. But she thinks she’s an amazing communicator with outstanding social skills, so couldn’t possibly be autistic.

Unfortunately, without accepting it, she’ll never be able to regulate herself or understand herself properly. But that’s up to her, I guess.

When you’re confirmed as autistic later in life, it does reframe everything. I often feel that my sister is negating all that and essentially saying ‘no, there actually is something intrinsically wrong with you and everything’s your fault’ - she’s also highly offensive about my autistic dc and doubts their diagnosis even though they have one. She knows better than the assessor, who she thinks has mistaken anxiety for autism.

We don’t really have a relationship now. Mainly because I won’t tolerate her attitude to my dc.

You don’t sound as though you like your days very much, so you might not care. But if you do care about keeping a good relationship with her, I’d suggest educating yourself about autism and neurodivergence, hearing her perspective and valuing what she has discovered about herself.

For the most part, self diagnosis is a positive thing, if people read about autism and identify it in themselves, they’re usually right (that’s what the Clinical Psychologist who diagnosed one of my dc said to me). We’re also likely moving towards a model where self ID is encouraged and becomes the norm, according to professionals working in this area. So I’d accept what your says about herself.

But you’d tell someone they aren’t?

The social attitude is upsetting. But as an autistic adult and the parent of autistic dc, I disagree that self ID is a problem.

Absolutely! My sister moved away after marrying and didn't see much of my parents for some years, apart from an annual visit. So she had very little insight into our parent's lives. My DB and I lived closer and were more involved both practically and emotionally. We saw them almost every week in the decade before their deaths, we knew their friends, so to be told that they were reclusive and had no friends is really irritating.

I'm not sure how true that is though.
The law only says that employers must offer 'reasonable adjustments'. There's no detail regarding how the process of identifying and quantifying reasonable adjustments should work.
At the same time , you cannot force anybody to have an OH assessment. The ACAS page is very clear on that, the employee has to agree.
Therefore, it's not clear whether refusing adjustments due to a lack of OH assessment is lawful. OH assessments can be required for the job but it looks like this has to be agreed in advance - like a physical fitness test for example?

The main point anyway was I don't think most people care about self-ID unless it affects them. Also, as ND people are so varied they themselves might have different reactions.

At work I do my job following the required policies/procedures + duties to my staff. Outside of that I only put up with what benefits me. If someone keeps talking at me r.e. a subject I have no interest in, I'm under no obligation to listen. Also... I mean... aDHD... We don't do things that bore us so whose ND wins :)

Not an alcoholic, I don't think, but seems to use alcohol therapeutically. We don't see each other to socialise or stay with each other very often, though we talk on the phone every week or so, so difficult to know what's going on.

My ex BIL is a nice man and we're in touch too. He's suspects borderline personality disorder. For the last few years of their marriage he tried to encourage her to ask for MH help, but she refused.

She can self refer for assessment through "right to choose" with the nhs.
Probably worth doing, her rigid views on everyone else having it could be an element of asd that she's struggling with to be honest.
Just try not to get drawn into debates too much and remind yourself that her opinion doesn't actually matter.