Mum is ‘so looking forward to being a granny’ - but I need to seriously manage her expectations

[howtomum123]

Hi everyone,

I’ve been having counselling about my childhood from 2014, but pretty solidly from 2018 to the present (with the same therapist since then). From this, I’ve been unpicking that my mum was/is emotionally immature, insecure, self-centred, expects us all to put her needs, wants and emotions first, even when we were tiny children.

She lives about an hour away with my dad, and I live with DH, 10 minutes from his parents.

I’m 31 now and pregnant with DC1 and due any day now. She has made awful comments to me over the years, including around a MMC I had at the end of last year (repeated incessant phone calls when I’d said I wasn’t ready to talk; wanting to know about the scans prior to surgical management and saying ‘so it had died then’).

Back when I went to uni, it was that my then-boyfriend would ‘meet someone else and forget all about me’; conversely, she’d phone me every single day at the exact same time demanding to know who I was with and what I was doing, and she wanted a copy of my timetable and to put a tracking app on my ipad

She seems to genuinely expect access to my personal/medical information, e.g. when my midwife appointments are, what jabs I’ve had, and when I don’t want to share information with her, or if she happens to find something minor out from a family member, she absolutely hits the roof. The problem is that when we were growing up and we wanted to have these conversations with her about our health and choices, she would react furiously to us talking about contraception, and just neglected to tell us anything about periods or puberty at all.

She has lied about me to family members, telling them that we hadn’t told them when our scan would be (even though DH had), and also told me that she would come and ‘hijack’ my baby from nursery, which I actually spoke to the police about, on the advice of my midwife.

My problem is managing her expectations as I get closer to having my baby. Everything in my brain and body is screaming at me that I do not want her near us. There is a note on my hospital records saying that she is not to be allowed in or given any information about us.

She seems to think she was a wonderful mum (and that I’m an abnormal daughter/our bad relationship is my fault), and my dad has said that she is ‘so looking forward to being a granny’. He constantly constantly throws us under the bus - we’re ‘too sensitive’, she ‘doesn’t do emotions’, it’s just how she is etc etc, for the last 30-ish years. Since having counselling, I’ve given up hope that he’ll ever stand up for us against her volatile and unstable behaviour.

I can’t express how much I do not want her ‘being a granny’. How dare she think that she can lash out at us with her anger and silent treatment (days of it) when we were so small, neglect us or even abuse us emotionally and psychologically, lie about me to others, behave in such an intrusive and enmeshed way, and yet still expect a lovely cuddly ‘grandma’ relationship?

She’s hugely insecure about my relationship with MIL (who’s genuinely supportive and wants to support both DH and me as well as our new baby, whereas my mum seems to see the baby as a trophy or a toy and has no genuine interest in my wellbeing). She hates that MIL is only 10 minutes away, and has spread the idea within the family that I’m under MIL’s thumb and she is controlling me - actually, I decided to move here to be with DH and to put some healthy distance between me and my own parents. She doesn’t seem able to understand that I can and do make my own decisions - I’m an adult and have been for some time.

There’s so much more I could post (and have done in the past). This is already so long, I’m really sorry.

TLDR - how do I manage my mum’s expectations of what her involvement will be with my baby when she did such a poor job of raising us as a mother?

Thank you if you’ve got this far

Go low or no contact. Put her on an information diet.

Be really, really careful about what you tell her and when. My Mum is similar and phoned, messaged and texted constantly in the run up. Stupid me did keep her updated and she repaid me by trying to gatecrash the birth, and claimed not to understand how invasive and disturbing her behaviour was afterwards.

I've also had to put up with a lot of crap because of bereavements, Im NC now and wish I'd done it earlier. Believe me, you won't want to be dealing with her nonsense when you've just given birth and might be feeling a bit wobbly.

The Stately Homes thread is helpful.

Good luck with your pregnancy.

Your dad is her enabler. He knows she's a nightmare and it's the only way he can deal with it.

I would recommend you go very low contact, with a view to maybe going no contact at some point. There is no reasoning with an unreasonable person, and she will never change.

You're going to need rock solid boundaries, but be prepared for this to drive her insane. Toxic people hate boundaries.

You will also need to emotionally detach from her, which means not giving a shit about her mental behaviour and never taking the bait when the threats and emotional blackmail starts up.

Feel free to keep your front door well and truly bolted, and to not pick up the phone to your parents. Block her number if you want to. Your life. Your choices.

This is a very special time for you. And it's wonderful, getting to know your baby and becoming a family. Don't let her spoil it. And don't hesitate to ban her from your house if that's what it takes.

I could have written this too. The only thing was, my mum could be lovely sometimes too and that made it more difficult to understand the situation and my reaction and feelings.
Something happened which turned our lives upside down and following that she became incredibly toxic. I had to get away and ended up moving abroad just to escape. Of course she told everyone I’d abandoned her in her hours of need. So many people in my hometown hate me now because “I abandoned her” etc but they don’t know what she was really like and what she put me through. I wouldn’t wish my childhood on anyone. Of course in her eyes she was a perfect mum.

She has passed away now and I’m torn with guilt because my feelings are so conflicting. Honestly she sounds so much like how you have described your own mum, but she also had moments where she was wonderful, loving and supportive. Because of the juxtaposition of those behaviours, I really struggled with knowing what her mood would be and I recall always being on eggshells around her. Those “good” traits also cause me to feel so much guilt, like perhaps I was the unreasonable person despite knowing deep down I was a child and I shouldn’t have been emotionally manipulated or shamed constantly for not being the daughter she wanted.

Little things like “why aren’t you blonde with blue eyes”, “why didn’t you get all As in your exam”, “why didn’t you win the sports day races”, “why can’t you sing like Leann rhymes”??? As a child I shouldn’t have been made to feel like I did.

Heck, I’ve never had therapy in my life and I feel like I have just trauma dumped all over your post OP! Sorry!

I wish you well with the baby and I agree with everyone else, low contact. Just because she birthed you doesn’t mean she can be so mean to you.

Sounds like all that money spent on 'the therapy years' was somewhat pointless but it's your money to throw away, just like anyone with an addiction.

You don't need some stranger to over analyse everything someone says or does to decide how to best manage the relationship with your parents or anyone else for that matter.

What you do need is to start taking responsibility for your own decisions. If you don't want to tell your parents anything, then don't.
You don't need anyone else to give you permission.

How do you manage difficult conversations with others generally? Maybe use your therapy money on assertiveness training instead? You might find it more useful when dealing with the toddler years and playground parents and other tricky situations.

The wonderful thing is @howtomum123 , that when your baby arrives your protective instincts arrive too, and you are likely to feel much more empowered to stand up to your mum on the baby's behalf than you have been able to for yourself.

I was/am in a very similar situation and I find LC works best for me - I can give my mother some information and we see her as little as possible (basically when it's unavoidable) - but there has been no visible drama to allow her to play the victim.

Put your plans in place for the birth and afterwards, and build your own little family the way you wish yours had been; it's a very special time, enjoy every minute.

You can't manage her expectations. There's nothing you can do to change her. You can choose to see her a lot less, or not at all, or put up with her.

Nc.
It's harder to break contact once she's in your dc lives.
Just crack on with your lovely wee family and don't look back x

@Kool4katz For people who had a very difficult childhood, therapy is not always a one time deal. You sometimes have to go back for a refresher course, especially when you encounter a new situation. Its a process; not an addiction or a waste of money.

No contact is very fashionable on Mumsnet.

I think it has some disadvantages. Children like to know who their grandparents are. Arguably if their grandparents are not violent/abusive/dangerous criminals there are advantages in there being some sort of relationship.

It is, of course, very difficult when someone oversteps boundaries and overseeing them causes you distress.

If you can do some kind of minimal supervised contact - seeing her at her house, so it's easy for you leave - for an hour every couple of months, it might be worth trying. Harder to get her to leave if she comes to your own home.

Partners can also be helpful, 'Mother-in-law, as we said it's time to go now. We need to get her/him home for a nap. See you again in a couple of months.'

I think you need to text her, and your dad, explaining that due to your mums ongoing manipulation and childhood abuse you're not comfortable having them around your baby. If you dont want to be completely no contact you could tell them you'll let them know when baby has arrived that you're both well but its not an invitation to visit. You need to protect your space and mental health, and as quickly as possible before your baby arrives.

You don't want the newborn days of your first child marred by messy arguments and turning your mother away at the door.

Definitely time to go no contact. You'll have to block your father as well, because she will undoubtedly try and use him as an avenue of approach.

Do not let that woman anywhere near your baby. This is your time with your baby being due, you and your husband have plenty to be dealing with, none of which need your mother's narcissistic hands all over.

Your post gave me pause, OP, because I found myself thinking "she doesn't sound THAT bad" and then realised I was thinking that because my mum is exactly the same and I have internalised all those same messages you have! Well done for recognising her behaviour and removing yourself from it (I did the same, location-wise, but clearly still have to do some work emotionally!).

One thing I will say is that my mum is very different as a grandmother than she was as a mother, and is overall a very positive presence in my daughter's life, although I do monitor their interactions very closely and will step that up as she gets older. In fact, I have found being a parent an incredibly healing experience when it comes to my feelings about my mum and my childhood. I've been able to assert my boundaries, gain some much-needed "power" in the relationship and, most importantly, I care so much less about what she thinks! You may find that things change for you too.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that you suddenly increase contact or allow your mum to be a primary caregiver to your son or anything! But personally I wouldn't go no-contact at this time, not until you know how things settle and how the interactions with your son go. Not least because if things DO go badly, if my experience is anything to go by, it will be so much easier for you emotionally to go NC once you are a parent.

I think you’ve misunderstood therapy.

There is so much of your original post that I could have written so I just wanted to add some to say that it's bloody hard what's happening to you but it's not your problem to deal with, it's hers. Rock solid boundaries are the way forward.

I would really consider sorting this before baby is born. Having peace after you’ve given birth is worth its weight in gold.

You've written how awful your mum’s behaviour has been, and it seems that she at least acknowledges that you have issues but takes no blame for it. So part of the hard bit is done- it’s not unchartered territory for you to challenge her behaviour and for her to push back. One thing I think is relevant is you said, after saying how bad it has been, is how you manage her expectations? I think that’s being far too kind. I think the question should be “how do I tell my mother that I don’t want her being a part of my child’s life?”

You know there’ll be fireworks, you’ve already had to involve the police, so I guess you could look at the legal route. If you really want her out of your life then consider a civil injunction.You've tried to address this with her before, so don’t waste your energy offering explanations and justifications. You don’t owe that to her. She knows why this is happening.

You are me 10 years ago, I could have written all of this. You need to care 5000% less about how she feels, what she thinks, what she says about (or to you) because you can't control any of that and you'll end up tied in knots trying to e.g worrying about "if I do X she will do Y" - that's how you stay trapped.

YOU are the mum and you gatekeep this baby. I really put my foot down in pregnancy and started to pull away when she crossed the line and each time I very clearly told her why -
"mum do not shout at me I'm a grown adult and will make my own decisions for my body and health. I will not be spoken to that way."
"Mum I said this topic isn't up for discussion as we will end up arguing. Please leave it"
"Ok I can see you feel very strongly aboit this and are getting quite emotional*, DH and I are going to leave now and will see you when you're feeling under better control of your emotions/under better control of how you speak to us"

The key is to keep your statements simple, factual, non emotional, be clear and be prepared to walk away/leave wherever you are/end the conversation if she kicks off. I'm not going to lie, it is HARD at first, but gets so easy and if you can make it work you will end up having "trained" her in a sense to behave nicer towards you. I do have a much better relationship with my mum now, at least one I am happy with because she is scared I'll cut her off from me and my kids. Once, she said to my first something about me being "bad mummy" (she loved to talk passive aggressively to me through the baby) and I said - do not EVER talk to my child like that again. Come on DH it's time to leave. I didn't have to explain, she knew exactly what she was doing and that she said it to make me feel insecure. I could picture so clearly in my head that she would undermine me constantly with my precious child and the minute they got to be a turbulent teenage years and I tried to parent through that it would be "I'm off to live with grandma because she REALLY loves me". Was I hell letting that happen.

Anyway, sorry that was so long! Start now and stick at it. If you can crack being tough with her and not caring when she lies to everyone about how mean you are then you have hope at training her to be nicer/more respectful to you. She is clearly strong willed and so you have to be stronger.

*(they HATE it when you say they are being emotional, it works v well to make them reflect after)

Move house. Don't leave a forwarding address..... I'm only half joking. I don't suppose you are lucky enough to have security gates, they'd be handy in this instance.

You've had lots of good tips on managing contact with her. You also have a perfect excuse coming up. I was busy with baby/out at a baby class/out for a walk etc. You could also give her a dose of her own batshittery and tell her you won't have a phone near the baby so it's mostly in a drawer which you check once a day ...

I would practice giving out next to no information to family, siblings, aunts, uncles etc. She will just mine them for it. If they are none the wiser, it's easier for them.
If any are particularly close then it might be worth having a conversation to say you are not being isolated by your husband and his family. This is an active decision made by you to reduce contact with your parents due to your mothers toxic behaviour.

Visits - half way point and preferably somewhere with a park and/or a playground so you can set the tone for future visits. Playgrounds bore most adults to tears so it's a good way to end a long pub lunch. If she's allergic to cats, get one. 😘

Best of luck with the birth. Concentrate on your newborn and your husband and build the family you wish you'd had. You can't change her so don't bother giving her headspace.

I think the whole house visit thing is tricky. Mine used to always want me to go to hers but would then spend the entire visit trying to push me into eating or drinking stuff I didn't want. The worst one was when I drove and stayed in a hotel and she repeatedly offered me wine to stop me leaving in the car.

I tried to reframe things to get her to meet in a neutral place like a cafe or restaurant but she'd find some way of being really disruptive about that too - like arriving a half an hour early and calling me to say she was there to try and rush me along, when she knew I had something else on.

Any boundary I put in place to try and manage the relationship had to be attacked.

The comment comparing the OP having therapy for a dysfunctional childhood to addiction seemed a bit unnecessary.

Children of narcissistic parents (like the OP) are usually people pleasers and have trouble asserting boundaries because they've been brainwashed their entire lives into people pleasing and not having boundaries. It's not nearly so easy as just saying 'assert boundaries.' That's why therapy can be so important.

Quite. OP's mum wouldn't have had the power that she did without the full support of OP's dad. He is as dangerous as her.

Op I too had a complicated relationship with my mother. I never felt ready to go no contact through i moved to a different country so contact was by default low. It was becoming a mother that gave me the strength to place boundaries. I didn't want my wonderful children to feel they were second best. Like you I had an amazing mil and the support from her and her as a grandma was plenty.

Mum died 9 years ago in truth it's rare I miss her. She was not a part of my life.

Mil passed 5 years ago. Not a day goes by where I don't miss her.

The children speak with love and fondness of mil my mother is rarelt mentioned. I feel good about that. I broke that curse.

I have been in your position. I wish I had known what I know now. My dc are late teens.

The situation is now about protecting your dc. It’s no longer so much about what you have been through but how you are going to prevent her from doing the same to your children. Trust me she is going to be doing her best to muscle in, she now has brand new supply.

I choose up play happy families for a while, big mistake. She undermined my parenting, played mother, tried to freeze me out, played games and used to have secrets from mummy. She was trying very hard to literally replace me, and expected to be their number one.
In the end I went very low contact and moved 250 miles away, it was the best thing I ever did. I took back control of my life, my children and put her firmly on the back burner. She hit the roof. The most almighty blow up followed, and she became extremely abusive. She tried to turn my dh and dc against me, she lied to our family. But we held strong.
She stopped speaking to me for a year and when she did speak she insulted me and said she would never forgive me for moving.

I strongly suggest you tell her now that she is no longer welcome and the midwife is concerned about the impact on you and the baby.

Please don’t do what I did, and think you can manage her or she will change. Neither is possible.

If you cut her out now then you can enjoy your baby without her ruining it for you. Yes it would have been better ten years ago, but maybe your love for your baby will give you the strength to do this.

You can get a restraining order if you need one.

Your instincts are screaming because you know she is going to harm all of you. Threatening to kidnap your baby is unforgivable op, I can’t imagine how it feels to have this said to you newly pregnant with your first baby.

You can do this op. Your baby needs you to advocate for them, and have a different life to the one you have had. Once he is here you are likely to realise your childhood was even worse than you thought.

💐
This is the happiest days of your life, do not let that woman take anything else from you.

Not read all the posts... but just wanted to say something along the lines of.. so what if you are overly sensitive, being controlled by MIL ect ( I know your not) but that's your mums reality and unfortunately she will not be able to change her narrative of the situation. As for family members, I'm imaging that your mum is wanting to keep control of her narrative of events. Family members may or may not know who emotionally controlling she can be and they probably see the situation much more fully from a distance than you think.
I'm saying this from seeing my DH navigate his relationship with his mum. DH had a borderline abusive/neglectful upbringing which since he became an adult seems to have been brushed under the carpet by everyone in his family. His mums narrative is that 'steve' is the naughty troubled kid always naughty and needed punishing or locking in a cubard ( as a toddler). She would tell all the family how bad he was ect. Since we had our own first baby he really looked at his childhood and thought.. I wasn't naughty and bad child. I was just a normal child and it was her parenting that exacerbated the situation! He cut himself off from all his family for about 15yrs because he thought everyone thought of him as the bad one( not the very sensitive, thoughtful man he is). Somehow he has been able to accept that his mums narrative of him being bad, is very true to her but he now has the confidence inside to know that he is not ther person she thinks.
Definitely low contact. Let her get angry from the side lines. And enjoy your lovely baby when it arrives! Stay strong

Fear, obligation and guilt.

It can be easy. Go NC.

Block her on all platforms.
If she turns up on the door phone the police
If you df reaches out tell him you don't want to discuss her with him and if he continues do the same to him
If friends or family reach out to you, do the above
It really doesn't matter what lies she spreads, those who care about you will know it's lies. Those who side with your dm let them go too.

Your mh and that of your dh and baby will thank you for it.