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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help me resolve a family dinner dilemma

136 replies

Dinnerdilemma · 02/11/2024 12:13

For a long time, DP and I have hosted my parents once a week for dinner. Over time, we’ve acquired a few extra regulars - elderly relatives and friends who are on their own (divorced or widowed). It’s usually a lovely get-together and something we all look forward to and enjoy.

We recently invited another (recently widowed) elderly man - not someone we know very well, but my mum was close to his wife, and one of our other regular guests is friends with him. He lives in our village. He’s always seemed quiet and unassuming, so we thought it would be nice to invite him where he’s now on his own.

Well, it turns out he has lots of strong opinions, many of which we just can’t get on board with. For example, sexist ideas about men’s and women’s roles, anti feminism, anti women progressing professionally. He has views on relationships that sound sympathetic to incel subculture.

When we tried to politely challenge some of his ideas - for example by telling him about a young, highly educated woman we know who competed with thousands of other applicants to secure a highly sought-after job - he dismissed our argument, saying well that’s all well and good, but it will come down to outcomes (as though to suggest she won’t deliver). DP works in a male-dominated industry and said to him some of the most competent, impressive people he’s worked with have been women. This man wasn’t having it.

And all this is being said in front of our young daughter, which I’m deeply uncomfortable with.

He tells us his views as though they’re fact and that we need to get on YouTube and watch this or that, as though to prove it. He’s said other things that have had us raising our eyebrows and which have left us, and others, feeling uncomfortable at our usually chilled-out and lovely meal. And he stays until really late afterwards, dominating the conversation!

Free speech = fine of course, but there are some (sexist/misogynistic/conspiracy theorist) views I don’t want aired in our home, around our family dinner table, in front of our daughter.

The problem now is that he knows it’s a regular weekly meal. He’s friends with one of our (lovely and much less opinionated) regulars (he and her husband were close) and last week he asked her if the meal was going ahead and she said yes, so he came again. He’s also recently widowed and lonely, so to tell him we don’t want him to come anymore would seem brutal.

Do we be direct and tell him it’s not going to work anymore (and say why)? Do we make some excuse up (e.g., more family are coming so there’s not enough room - which will actually be true come Christmas when our eldest and his girlfriend will be back from uni - and I know DS will not be able to shrug off his sexism/misogyny!)? DD has some activities ramping up this half-term so we could say we’re going to be too busy and pare back the dinners - but still quietly invite the original crowd. Or do we just put up with it out of kindness?

I’ve stopped looking forward to these once-lovely get-togethers. ☹️ Grateful for any help with navigating this.

OP posts:
AmyDudley · 02/11/2024 16:31

You sound like a lovely kind person, and that is why you don't want to upset people. But this man has no problem foisting his upsetting and vile opinions onto others.
This is your home, you are hosting him and providing him with dinner and he has the cheek to make insulting remarks about women in fornt of you, your DD and your female friends and family.

Time he accepted that his views are not welcome. And I would tell him this bluntly. 'Bob your opinions are very offensive and are spoiling our family get togethers, so you aren't invited any more.' If you or your DH don't want to do it, then get the friend who brought him along (and must have known what he is like) to do it.
(Put a big sign on your door saying 'Bigot free zone' in case he decides to rock up anyway.)

You aren't going to change his views and he won't be able to stop himself expressing them, so he has ruled himself out of pleasant company. That's his problem not yours.Your DD not having to listen to sexist nonsense in her home, is more important than this man's feelings.

Bournetilly · 02/11/2024 16:33

Greyrocked · 02/11/2024 13:41

I would be brutally honest “I’m sorry we didn’t feel the views you expressed were ones we want our daughter exposed to. We wish you all the best”

If he asks again this is all you need to say!

ThisIsSockward · 02/11/2024 16:41

Unless he's particularly obtuse, surely he noticed that some of you didn't agree with his views, so it can't come as a complete surprise that he didn't mesh well with the group and isn't automatically invited forever from now on.

It's up to your other friend whether she wants to exclude herself or not to avoid an awkward conversation with him, but I wouldn't try to change him or get him to moderate his expressed views, nor would I allow him to ruin a pleasant tradition.

Moulook31 · 02/11/2024 16:47

I would go back to just having your parents and inform everyone else that you cannot cope with the catering at the moment. Then after a while you can start inviting only those that you want and leaving out the over-bearing man.

Savingthehedgehogs · 02/11/2024 16:54

The mutual friend will have to deal with it, you should be honest with her about the issue and say you aren’t comfortable.

ThePoetsWife · 02/11/2024 17:15

Ffs - just tell him the truth

Pumpkinforever · 02/11/2024 17:17

Why are you letting other people invite random strangers to your home for a meal? Honest to go @Dinnerdilemma get a grip on the situation. Just say to mutual friend that he is not welcome end of.

You owe this bloke nothing. He is a stranger taking advantage of your hospitality. You need to act as a role model to your daughter to show that she shouldn’t have to accept people which such horrible views just because he is a lonely widower.

suburberphobe · 02/11/2024 17:46

Why are you letting other people invite random strangers to your home for a meal?

Yes, indeed. Not so "lovely" then. (And why on earth are you running around after her delivering meals?).

I wouldn't dream of bringing a random stranger to an invitation for dinner.

So many posters are suggesting inviting him again - why?!

I wouldn't be having any mysoginistic, racist people over my threshold thanks.

Reminds me of that Julia Roberts quote about women are not rehabilitation centres for men.

Barney16 · 02/11/2024 18:09

Tell him he's welcome but his views aren't so, if he's going to express his views he won't be able to come anymore. I wouldn't stop having dinners, but before the next one go round and tell him. Then it's up to him.

SerafinasGoose · 02/11/2024 18:18

diddl · 02/11/2024 16:05

Did he though?

He was invited the first time & it seems that invitations are ongoing once invited?

(Unless I have misunderstood?)

Well, I certainly don't turn up to others' dinners every week having merely been invited once. This is someone else's time, labour and money being expected for free here.

He's not invited. It really is that simple. But it's very doubtful that the type of personality that enjoys making generous strangers a present of his rancid, right-wing opinons would have any real grasp of social manners or etiquette.

diddl · 02/11/2024 18:23

SerafinasGoose · 02/11/2024 18:18

Well, I certainly don't turn up to others' dinners every week having merely been invited once. This is someone else's time, labour and money being expected for free here.

He's not invited. It really is that simple. But it's very doubtful that the type of personality that enjoys making generous strangers a present of his rancid, right-wing opinons would have any real grasp of social manners or etiquette.

Well as I put I may have understood.

As may the other invitee who he asked.

"Is the meal going ahead?"

"Yes".

I mean she answered the question that was asked.

Perhaps she should have added "but not for you"!

They both seem to have the idea that he could go again.

Perhaps they were both wrong?

Noodles1234 · 03/11/2024 17:55

If you’re happy to keep him albeit a change of tone, just be straight and say we would be happy to have you over again at some point in the future with a selection of others, but we cannot be onboard with some of your views around our DD, we would request you refrain from these or we would need to stop this arrangement. This is to keep conversation light and airy and avoiding difficult topics to keep everyone with a happy feeling.
or just say (as well as maybe), we have other guests and cannot accommodate everyone, so when we have another free spot we will let you know.

can I just say how lovely you are to do this, it’s people like you who absolutely are amazing in communities and I hope when I’m older there’s someone like you (as I’m a rubbish cook)!

Getamoveon2024 · 03/11/2024 18:04

You sound like a lovely person op. But I would tell him straight. “Malcolm, your views are misogynistic and outdated and they are not welcome at our table. If you continue to talk like this, we will not invite you again. Your choice. I do not want to have this conversation again”. Then move on. If he carries on, he isn’t welcome back.

SpoonyNavyGoose · 03/11/2024 18:26

Don’t invite him again, and tell everyone else in the meal group not to invite him either.
If he turns up uninvited, be straight with him that you cannot tolerate his views at the dinner table. Hopefully he will reflect on the reasons you give, but sadly he probably won’t.

Judecb · 03/11/2024 18:56

Be honest and direct with him. Tell him you do not find his opinions acceptable. If he can't rein it in, he isn't welcome.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 03/11/2024 18:58

Pumpkinforever · 02/11/2024 17:17

Why are you letting other people invite random strangers to your home for a meal? Honest to go @Dinnerdilemma get a grip on the situation. Just say to mutual friend that he is not welcome end of.

You owe this bloke nothing. He is a stranger taking advantage of your hospitality. You need to act as a role model to your daughter to show that she shouldn’t have to accept people which such horrible views just because he is a lonely widower.

Agreed and even when you told her that you didn't want uninvited people just deciding to turn up, she still didn't get it. Took a huff and started saying she couldn't come either and suggesting that she doesn't want to lie to him.

I didn't think your second post in dealing with him was at all clear.
I think you should expressly tell him, and your other guests that you don't want univited people rocking up for meals full stop. It's disrespectful to the hosts. They have to be invited and they cannot invite randoms without even asking you. If they have a problem with that and won't come again then so be it. They are taking offence where there is none, and where they have invited someone who caused offence - twice - and should be apologising to YOU. It goes against the spirit of your gatherings. If they want to cook him dinner and listen to his awful opinions, then they are welcome to do so. They don't have the right to try to blackmail you into allowing him to continue to be imposed on you.

DisforDarkChocolate · 03/11/2024 19:02

There is no need to cancel for everyone, even for a couple of weeks.

Sorry, Bob but these are friendly sociable dinners and you were so rude I don't want my daughter exposed to your views. It ain't kind but neither is he.

Toptops · 03/11/2024 19:57

I'd recommend you pause your lovely dinners except for family members and close friends until, say, after the new year.
Tell all your regulars, and him, that you are taking a break from the weekly meal while family stuff is sorted out.
Then hand invite the chosen ones, making it clear this is a personal invite just for them.
As it sounds like he's very thick skinned, you may still have to explain to him why he's not invited.

Cantalever · 03/11/2024 19:59

5128gap · 02/11/2024 16:31

The first one. I'd say "Bill, I'm sorry but I don't think it worked well when you came for dinner because you've obviously got some strong opinions and so have we, and it ended up being a bit awkward. The dinners are just meant to be light hearted and fun for everyone and all that talk about women from you changed the dynamic. We were a bit uncomfortable and offended' See how he responds and take it from there. If he apologises and says he'll keep off the topic you could give him a chance if you felt like it. (I wouldn't. But you're kinder than me!)

Why start with "I'm sorry"? Classic conditioned female deference. She is not sorry, so why say it like it is? Tell him the truth.

5128gap · 03/11/2024 20:06

Cantalever · 03/11/2024 19:59

Why start with "I'm sorry"? Classic conditioned female deference. She is not sorry, so why say it like it is? Tell him the truth.

Fair cop. I am indeed a classically conditioned deferential female. However, the OP has indicated that whether we think he deserves both barrels or not, she wants to approach the matter with tact to avoid unpleasantness in the group. An 'I'm sorry' here is used as a softener of an unpopular message as in 'I regret to inform you' rather than an apology.

AnnieSnap · 03/11/2024 20:29

It’s absolutely reasonable and the right thing to do to be honest with him. You shouldn’t feel uncomfortable about it because you must do this for your daughter. It’s also a message he needs to hear. I doubt a man with those strongly held opinions will reflect on them, but at least he will learn how unacceptable they are to (many/most) other people.

BlueFlowers5 · 03/11/2024 20:51

Other nicer invitees might leave your weekly Sunday dinners OP. I wouldnt stop your dinners, but get hubby to give him and his friend a ring and tell him he is making people uncomfortable and maybe he has a male friend he could meet etc?
And that he can't come again

OhcantthInkofaname · 03/11/2024 21:59

I'd have your DP explain to him that the women at the table aren't willing to listen to his nonsense. You know hearing it from a mere woman won't have any effect.

shehasglasses48 · 03/11/2024 21:59

You sound like a lovely person and actually I’d like to take your annoying visitor’s place! I’d say try to educate him but it seems a bit too late for that. X

Bernardo1 · 03/11/2024 22:35

Be direct, tell him, drop him.

If he is shocked, but promises to behave, then let his presence continue, for now!

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