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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help me resolve a family dinner dilemma

136 replies

Dinnerdilemma · 02/11/2024 12:13

For a long time, DP and I have hosted my parents once a week for dinner. Over time, we’ve acquired a few extra regulars - elderly relatives and friends who are on their own (divorced or widowed). It’s usually a lovely get-together and something we all look forward to and enjoy.

We recently invited another (recently widowed) elderly man - not someone we know very well, but my mum was close to his wife, and one of our other regular guests is friends with him. He lives in our village. He’s always seemed quiet and unassuming, so we thought it would be nice to invite him where he’s now on his own.

Well, it turns out he has lots of strong opinions, many of which we just can’t get on board with. For example, sexist ideas about men’s and women’s roles, anti feminism, anti women progressing professionally. He has views on relationships that sound sympathetic to incel subculture.

When we tried to politely challenge some of his ideas - for example by telling him about a young, highly educated woman we know who competed with thousands of other applicants to secure a highly sought-after job - he dismissed our argument, saying well that’s all well and good, but it will come down to outcomes (as though to suggest she won’t deliver). DP works in a male-dominated industry and said to him some of the most competent, impressive people he’s worked with have been women. This man wasn’t having it.

And all this is being said in front of our young daughter, which I’m deeply uncomfortable with.

He tells us his views as though they’re fact and that we need to get on YouTube and watch this or that, as though to prove it. He’s said other things that have had us raising our eyebrows and which have left us, and others, feeling uncomfortable at our usually chilled-out and lovely meal. And he stays until really late afterwards, dominating the conversation!

Free speech = fine of course, but there are some (sexist/misogynistic/conspiracy theorist) views I don’t want aired in our home, around our family dinner table, in front of our daughter.

The problem now is that he knows it’s a regular weekly meal. He’s friends with one of our (lovely and much less opinionated) regulars (he and her husband were close) and last week he asked her if the meal was going ahead and she said yes, so he came again. He’s also recently widowed and lonely, so to tell him we don’t want him to come anymore would seem brutal.

Do we be direct and tell him it’s not going to work anymore (and say why)? Do we make some excuse up (e.g., more family are coming so there’s not enough room - which will actually be true come Christmas when our eldest and his girlfriend will be back from uni - and I know DS will not be able to shrug off his sexism/misogyny!)? DD has some activities ramping up this half-term so we could say we’re going to be too busy and pare back the dinners - but still quietly invite the original crowd. Or do we just put up with it out of kindness?

I’ve stopped looking forward to these once-lovely get-togethers. ☹️ Grateful for any help with navigating this.

OP posts:
Namaqua · 02/11/2024 13:52

Ok didn't see your update. Glad to see you have dealt with this, and that you and DH realise you need to be more assertive in general. You sound lovely people though 🙂

diddl · 02/11/2024 13:53

but he said we’d drop a dinner round all the same, which I think is a lovely gesture to say we still want to include her.

But she knows that you want to include her as you invited her!

She declined!

No wonder you get walked all over!

Opentooffers · 02/11/2024 13:53

I think after your parent's and relatives only one, have a break from everyone for a week. Then start again, inviting only the people you want there and making it clear to anyone who knows him that he is not to be invited. Best not to mention to him that its happening.
I think in future, as its your house, you should put a rule in place that you decide who can come, so anyone who suggests someone they know, but you don't, should be declined.
I'd only tell him straight if he directly asks you, but avoidance till then is fine.

Secondguess · 02/11/2024 13:55

It sounds like you're running a public service. Why on earth are you delivering a meal to the"friend"? It sounds like the friend isn't happy that you're not inviting the rude man. The friend should be apologising, why are you bending over in apology to them?

Your first responsibility is to your family-you are teaching your daughter how to behave as an adult, and it sounds like she's seeing both adults in her home capitulate to the wants (not needs) of random people. This is normalising something unhealthy. It needs to stop.

Notsandwiches · 02/11/2024 13:57

So many recommendations to lie or not to tell him...as women shouldn't we be past these people pleasing behaviours? Tell him straight: "I find your attitude towards women offensive and I'm not prepared to listen to it in my own home."

MolkosTeenageAngst · 02/11/2024 13:59

It’s not brutal to tell somebody he’s sexist and being widowed isn’t an excuse for misogyny and sexism. Would you continue to let a racist into your house just to be polite? You don’t need an elaborate excuse, just inform him that the weekly dinners haven’t been working out as some of his opinions are outdated and offensive and that you can’t have your DD around somebody who doesn’t believe women are equal to men. Telling him the truth is the kindest option to everybody as it might show him that his views are not acceptable and make him think twice before sharing them in front of other women and girls.

BobbyBiscuits · 02/11/2024 14:01

He's grown up enough to have antiquated misogynistic views he sees fit to loudly vocalise at dinner with near strangers, so he's grown up enough to accept he's been excluded from the dinner because of this.
There's no point in telling him directly, but if he sees people going into your house then tough.
If he was prepared to either tone it down or realise what he thinks is outdated and frankly, wrong then you'd give him another chance.
But he'll end up offending everyone if you allow him to keep attending.

category12 · 02/11/2024 14:09

diddl · 02/11/2024 13:53

but he said we’d drop a dinner round all the same, which I think is a lovely gesture to say we still want to include her.

But she knows that you want to include her as you invited her!

She declined!

No wonder you get walked all over!

Agree with this.

This woman clearly thinks his views are fine otherwise she wouldn't be friends with him. It won't have been the first time she's heard him sound off.

And you say she doesn't "get" why you don't want him back and she's now staying away herself.

I'm not sure she's as lovely as you think.

I don't think you and dh should be creeping around her acting like you need to make it up to her, when he's her obnoxious pushy friend that she inflicted on you.

Drom · 02/11/2024 14:10

category12 · 02/11/2024 14:09

Agree with this.

This woman clearly thinks his views are fine otherwise she wouldn't be friends with him. It won't have been the first time she's heard him sound off.

And you say she doesn't "get" why you don't want him back and she's now staying away herself.

I'm not sure she's as lovely as you think.

I don't think you and dh should be creeping around her acting like you need to make it up to her, when he's her obnoxious pushy friend that she inflicted on you.

Indeed.

DeeCeeCherry · 02/11/2024 14:13

The problem now is that he knows it’s a regular weekly meal

How is this a problem? Tell him his views are offensive and certainly not appropriate for dinner conversation. So, he's no longer welcome.

I can never understand why people tiptoe around obnoxious people. I mean why? Especially in your own home? & Letting him carry on speaking like that in front of your daughter really is not on.

It should've been nipped in the bud immediately, rather than him having the time and opportunity to express his ignorant views.

Usnone · 02/11/2024 14:13

I think that you're fudging a bit, hoping the mutual friend then the actual bloke will get the hint. Fair enough if that's your M.O.

I would be much more blunt & not care a jot about him potentially being "upset". He's an ignorant, verbose boor and I'd tell him that.

pikkumyy77 · 02/11/2024 14:30

Its a dinner party not a debating society. Free speech doesn’t enter into it! Free speech slso doesn’t mean no consequences for racist, misogynistic, speech. Au contraire: you should have shut him down in the moment over and over again. Refusing him admission is a natural consequence of his awful opinions.

Drom · 02/11/2024 14:36

DeeCeeCherry · 02/11/2024 14:13

The problem now is that he knows it’s a regular weekly meal

How is this a problem? Tell him his views are offensive and certainly not appropriate for dinner conversation. So, he's no longer welcome.

I can never understand why people tiptoe around obnoxious people. I mean why? Especially in your own home? & Letting him carry on speaking like that in front of your daughter really is not on.

It should've been nipped in the bud immediately, rather than him having the time and opportunity to express his ignorant views.

Yes, it’s not an open-to-all weekly club, it’s a private dinner in someone’s house.

Cherrysoup · 02/11/2024 14:38

I’d speak to lovely mutual friend again and just tell her that you can’t have him voicing his unwelcome views in front of your dd. Keep up your boundaries, don’t compromise on your beliefs. He may be widowed and lonely, but you don’t need to have someone with his opinions in your home.

Starlight7080 · 02/11/2024 14:38

Just because he is a widow and lonely doesn't mean you have to put up with him in your home.
He sounds like he has probably upset/offended or worse a lot of people in his lifetime. Maybe he needs a taste of that medicine.

I wonder how he treated his wife.

Just tell the other he is not invited. He will get the picture

Octonaut4Life · 02/11/2024 14:40

Be clear with him that he is not welcome due to his objectionable views. Why are you so worried about his comfort when he doesn't care a jot about your comfort, or your daughter's? You're just reinforcing his views that women are just there to make his life more comfortable and who cares about their feelings.

HiccupHorrendousHaddock · 02/11/2024 14:46

It’s awkward because you sound lovely and caring people. I imagine you’d shy away from tackling him head on.

Unfortunately, he clearly has the hide of a rhino if he came for dinner having asked the mutual friend “if it was on” and believes himself to have a standing invitation.

I think the only sure fire way is to speak to him. Whether it’s telling him straight that you don’t want his company or giving some flannel about it getting a bit to big to be manageable anymore and lts “last in first out” so regrettably he isn’t invited… however you approach him, he needs telling straight.

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 02/11/2024 14:50

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/11/2024 13:09

I'd tell him he's not welcome because you don't like his sexist opinions and don't want him saying things like that in front of your teenage daughter.

This ... in the hope he might take it on board

Wonderballs · 02/11/2024 14:50

Can you change the day of the week? Might also make things easier when you invite others again

LookItsMeAgain · 02/11/2024 14:52

I would say to him "I wonder, John, if you remember the signs you would see outside shops and other establishments that read "Management reserve the right to refuse admission"? Well, based on your very vocal opinions, we feel that we must now refuse you admission to the meal that you keep showing up for. We cannot expose our daughter to such beliefs and while you are entitled to have these beliefs, you are not entitled to share them with our daughter."
On the off chance that he disputes this, you can come back with the suggestion that @WhereYouLeftIt made about him being invited to ONE meal and he's just kept coming even though he wasn't actually invited by the hosts.

For the time being, I'd either cancel the meal or have it just for family (not even extended family) in the run up to Christmas and you can have time to decide what to do during the coming weeks.

BirthdayRainbow · 02/11/2024 14:56

This is very simple. Your daughter or this man.

MilesOfCarpetTiles · 02/11/2024 14:59

I also feel that this isn't "not liking his views" (as some people relish this). It's that they (sound like, from what OP say) are untrue.

Every woman doesn't share one set of skills or personality types or characteristics with every other woman. So thinking you can extrapolate these to someone based on what sex they are is stupid. Particularly if they think one sex is superior on top of this.

Incel whining is unacceptable.

ReadingInTheRain583 · 02/11/2024 15:02

"Nigel, whilst you're fully entitled to your views on XYZ topics, they don't fit with our family values. You're very welcome to continue to join us for dinner, as long as these topics are avoided"

As an aside, does it not cost you a small fortune to feed all these waifs and strays?

ZenNudist · 02/11/2024 15:05

I understand you want to be sensitive to other people's feelings, but this man was not sensitive to your feelings when he turned up at your house and expressed misogynistic views.

A more direct approach is necessary.Otherwise you will be continually pussyfooting around who can and cannot be invited to these meals.

"I'm sorry Dave but you are not invited again. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to work out why. Please don't invite yourself again."

Farfarout · 02/11/2024 15:15

Just say it's all got a bit much to organise and that you'll be having a get together next year but will be seeing your family only for now. Then persuade one of the people who introduced him to hold it or meet in a pub so you can leave.