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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help me resolve a family dinner dilemma

136 replies

Dinnerdilemma · 02/11/2024 12:13

For a long time, DP and I have hosted my parents once a week for dinner. Over time, we’ve acquired a few extra regulars - elderly relatives and friends who are on their own (divorced or widowed). It’s usually a lovely get-together and something we all look forward to and enjoy.

We recently invited another (recently widowed) elderly man - not someone we know very well, but my mum was close to his wife, and one of our other regular guests is friends with him. He lives in our village. He’s always seemed quiet and unassuming, so we thought it would be nice to invite him where he’s now on his own.

Well, it turns out he has lots of strong opinions, many of which we just can’t get on board with. For example, sexist ideas about men’s and women’s roles, anti feminism, anti women progressing professionally. He has views on relationships that sound sympathetic to incel subculture.

When we tried to politely challenge some of his ideas - for example by telling him about a young, highly educated woman we know who competed with thousands of other applicants to secure a highly sought-after job - he dismissed our argument, saying well that’s all well and good, but it will come down to outcomes (as though to suggest she won’t deliver). DP works in a male-dominated industry and said to him some of the most competent, impressive people he’s worked with have been women. This man wasn’t having it.

And all this is being said in front of our young daughter, which I’m deeply uncomfortable with.

He tells us his views as though they’re fact and that we need to get on YouTube and watch this or that, as though to prove it. He’s said other things that have had us raising our eyebrows and which have left us, and others, feeling uncomfortable at our usually chilled-out and lovely meal. And he stays until really late afterwards, dominating the conversation!

Free speech = fine of course, but there are some (sexist/misogynistic/conspiracy theorist) views I don’t want aired in our home, around our family dinner table, in front of our daughter.

The problem now is that he knows it’s a regular weekly meal. He’s friends with one of our (lovely and much less opinionated) regulars (he and her husband were close) and last week he asked her if the meal was going ahead and she said yes, so he came again. He’s also recently widowed and lonely, so to tell him we don’t want him to come anymore would seem brutal.

Do we be direct and tell him it’s not going to work anymore (and say why)? Do we make some excuse up (e.g., more family are coming so there’s not enough room - which will actually be true come Christmas when our eldest and his girlfriend will be back from uni - and I know DS will not be able to shrug off his sexism/misogyny!)? DD has some activities ramping up this half-term so we could say we’re going to be too busy and pare back the dinners - but still quietly invite the original crowd. Or do we just put up with it out of kindness?

I’ve stopped looking forward to these once-lovely get-togethers. ☹️ Grateful for any help with navigating this.

OP posts:
Ezekiela · 02/11/2024 13:15

As he turned up without an invitation the second time, you will need to explicitly uninvite him. First off, tell the mutual friend that you don't want her to invite him or let him know it's happening.

Then I would be blunt with him, tell him he was overbearing and dominated the conversation which spoiled the ambience, so it's best if he doesn't come again. If he protests / promises he won't do it, stick to "It doesn't work for us." You could tell him that his remarks upset some people. You don't have to say who.

Don't worry about offending him. He's not worried about offending you.

pizzaHeart · 02/11/2024 13:17

when you are inviting people next time tell: just to let you know we are not inviting John anymore. Our family doesn’t share his views.
I think it’ll send a strong message to others as well.

beetr00 · 02/11/2024 13:18

there is a saying that "no good deed goes unpunished" @Dinnerdilemma

"Do we be direct and tell him it’s not going to work anymore (and say why)?" absolutely, yes.

mnahmnah · 02/11/2024 13:18

I would just tell him that although everyone is entitled to their views, his really don’t align with yours, and it’s making the meals less enjoyable for you in your own home, so it would be best he didn’t come anymore. If he complains, you simply tell him that he is proving your point. All with a smile, but firm.

2024onwardsandup · 02/11/2024 13:18

Good lord don’t cancel and then tie yourself up in knots trying to pretend he’s not the problem

he’s been outrageously offensive to you and your daughter.

women are always made to feel so bad for being offended by incredibly offensive behaviour

do you think he’s posting somewhere worried about if he’s offended you? of course not

he thinks his needs are priority and he is entitled to come to your house regardless of how rude and offensive he is

bet he didn’t jump up and offer to clear the dishes

i would very clearly say he is not welcome because his misogynistic views are deeply offensive to you and your daughter (and husband)

this notion that men shouldn’t be called out is why the world is - on the whole - ignoring what’s happening to women and girls in Afghanistan.

he’s an arsehole. You don’t want him in your house because he’s an arsehole. declare it loud and proud

if hes lonely well then thats his own offensive selves problem

jay55 · 02/11/2024 13:19

Just tell him he's not invited. Don't worry about upsetting him. He happily upsets you without a care.

Dearg · 02/11/2024 13:21

jay55 · 02/11/2024 13:19

Just tell him he's not invited. Don't worry about upsetting him. He happily upsets you without a care.

Came on to say just this. You showed him a lovely kindness. He has abused that. You owe him nothing.

Shinyandnew1 · 02/11/2024 13:24

He’s friends with one of our (lovely and much less opinionated) regulars (he and her husband were close) and last week he asked her if the meal was going ahead and she said yes, so he came again.

You need to speak to this friend!

Is he just turning up every week then, without an invitation? That’s really weird.

GG1986 · 02/11/2024 13:30

Stop the dinners, otherwise this will be a weekly invitation for who knows how many years! If somebody came in to my home and was offensive especially in front of my daughter then they wouldn't be coming back. So either stop the dinners or call him out on his behaviour and tell him he is not invited again.

Doggymummar · 02/11/2024 13:34

Have you tried not inviting him?

Drom · 02/11/2024 13:34

GG1986 · 02/11/2024 13:30

Stop the dinners, otherwise this will be a weekly invitation for who knows how many years! If somebody came in to my home and was offensive especially in front of my daughter then they wouldn't be coming back. So either stop the dinners or call him out on his behaviour and tell him he is not invited again.

There’s absolutely no need to stop inviting everyone else to a weekly dinner the OP enjoys because one one-time invitee is a misogynist arsehole!

Couchpotato3 · 02/11/2024 13:36

Why should you bend yourself out of shape and stop having your lovely dinners just because of one ignorant man? He has thoroughly offended you and your family and is no longer welcome in your house.

Just tell your friend who 'invited' him this and make it clear that he is not to be brought along again. If he turns up uninvited, keep him at the door and simply say 'Sorry, Rudebloke, the dinner is only for invited guests.' Rinse and repeat. If he pushes back, tell him straight 'You were not invited because we found your views offensive and your presence disrupted the nice atmosphere of our meal. Goodbye!'

Maddy70 · 02/11/2024 13:36

Havalona · 02/11/2024 13:00

I think I'd just invite your parents and relatives for a few weeks. If and when anyone asks I would say that you have important family matters to discuss and this is our opportunity in private, or something like that.

Then gradually re invite the nice friends and leave Mr. Mysoginist out of it. As pp said have your answer ready and do not be cowed by him. He is making you, and I've no doubt all the others at your table uncomfortable. Nope, out he goes.

Exactly this 👏

2024onwardsandup · 02/11/2024 13:37

@Havalona why shouldn’t she just say no you can’t come because you’re a prick?

Dinnerdilemma · 02/11/2024 13:38

Thank you, thank you, thank you all for your replies. I feel so reassured that I’m not imagining he’s an arse.

DP and I are clearly crap with enforcing boundaries and need to get better (we both put up with two shitty ex-partners for far too long), but I’m pleased to say that DP has now been in contact with the (lovely) mutual friend. He doesn’t think she completely gets it, and she’s opted out of coming to the next meal, but he said we’d drop a dinner round all the same, which I think is a lovely gesture to say we still want to include her.

DP has also messaged the man concerned to say we have a lot ramping up for us as a family at the moment, so no meals. I’m hoping him coming will then peter out (he’s only been coming more recently so isn’t an established regular), and if it doesn’t, we’ll need to say to him candidly what the issue has been. But we have a reprieve for now. (It may be tricky on our mutual friend, as if he asks if there’s a meal, she may feel she has to lie, if she still wants to come in future. 😬)

Again, I really appreciate you all reassuring me that my gut feeling with this was right - I have a habit of ignoring it. And I agree so much that this is how women and girls are conditioned to be - nice, kind, accommodating, even (often) to their own detriment. No more (on this matter at least)!

I have to dash out for the rest of the day now, so apologies for not thanking or responding individually, or for a while if anyone else posts.

OP posts:
Dinnerdilemma · 02/11/2024 13:39

P.S. It will be just parents and relatives at the next one. <relieved sigh>

OP posts:
Greyrocked · 02/11/2024 13:41

I would be brutally honest “I’m sorry we didn’t feel the views you expressed were ones we want our daughter exposed to. We wish you all the best”

HateThese4Leggedbeasts · 02/11/2024 13:42

Dearg · 02/11/2024 13:21

Came on to say just this. You showed him a lovely kindness. He has abused that. You owe him nothing.

Agreed!

Drom · 02/11/2024 13:43

Dinnerdilemma · 02/11/2024 13:38

Thank you, thank you, thank you all for your replies. I feel so reassured that I’m not imagining he’s an arse.

DP and I are clearly crap with enforcing boundaries and need to get better (we both put up with two shitty ex-partners for far too long), but I’m pleased to say that DP has now been in contact with the (lovely) mutual friend. He doesn’t think she completely gets it, and she’s opted out of coming to the next meal, but he said we’d drop a dinner round all the same, which I think is a lovely gesture to say we still want to include her.

DP has also messaged the man concerned to say we have a lot ramping up for us as a family at the moment, so no meals. I’m hoping him coming will then peter out (he’s only been coming more recently so isn’t an established regular), and if it doesn’t, we’ll need to say to him candidly what the issue has been. But we have a reprieve for now. (It may be tricky on our mutual friend, as if he asks if there’s a meal, she may feel she has to lie, if she still wants to come in future. 😬)

Again, I really appreciate you all reassuring me that my gut feeling with this was right - I have a habit of ignoring it. And I agree so much that this is how women and girls are conditioned to be - nice, kind, accommodating, even (often) to their own detriment. No more (on this matter at least)!

I have to dash out for the rest of the day now, so apologies for not thanking or responding individually, or for a while if anyone else posts.

You can’t make the friend behave like a boundaried adult. Her shit is her shit, bluntly, and if she’s blissfully fine with the fact that her friend is a raging misogynist, I’m not sure she’s all that ‘lovely’. It’s never too late to work your way out from under your social conditioning. We all do it.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 02/11/2024 13:43

Shinyandnew1 · 02/11/2024 13:24

He’s friends with one of our (lovely and much less opinionated) regulars (he and her husband were close) and last week he asked her if the meal was going ahead and she said yes, so he came again.

You need to speak to this friend!

Is he just turning up every week then, without an invitation? That’s really weird.

Exactly! Never mind him, you need some boundaries with some of the others, by the sounds of it! What's stopping them from inviting some random bloke they happened to meet at the bus stop?

No invitations, unless issued by you and/or through you if someone knows of someone who might need help.

CrabSignalArmy · 02/11/2024 13:44

I'm glad he's not invited but I hope if there's contact again you have the confidence to say clearly that no, it's not just the lack of room but simply that such nasty sexist views are not welcome. It is not your job to provide a cosy audience for his diatribe, and you don't owe him the kindness of pretending that it's not his personality that's the problem. Indeed it might be more of a kindness to let him know the truth. If he's lonely it's obvious that the main reason is that he's not a very nice person.

WhereYouLeftIt · 02/11/2024 13:45

"Do we be direct and tell him it’s not going to work anymore (and say why)? Do we make some excuse up ..."

Of course you be direct! Because he's just going to turn up on your doorstep regardless otherwise - he doesn't feel he needs to be invited, he regards your house as some sort of day-care drop-in centre - "last week he asked her if the meal was going ahead and she said yes, so he came again." "The meal" - FFS!

In fact, I'd use that as my opening words.

'John, I invited you to my home once, and you seem to believe that you can now turn up uninvited. This is absolutely not the case, and that you did so was very rude. Please never do that again. I invited you once, and you were frankly not good company and I will not be inviting you again.'

Do not be kind-hearted and soften the message in the slightest. He will simply see that as a challenge, and that you are a silly woman who needs to be taught to be more hospitable.

WhereYouLeftIt · 02/11/2024 13:47

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 02/11/2024 13:43

Exactly! Never mind him, you need some boundaries with some of the others, by the sounds of it! What's stopping them from inviting some random bloke they happened to meet at the bus stop?

No invitations, unless issued by you and/or through you if someone knows of someone who might need help.

Very good point! Nobody should be issuing invites except you. You need to bring this up with her, ASAP.

Bumblebeestiltskin · 02/11/2024 13:48

Greyrocked · 02/11/2024 13:41

I would be brutally honest “I’m sorry we didn’t feel the views you expressed were ones we want our daughter exposed to. We wish you all the best”

Totally agree with this!

Namaqua · 02/11/2024 13:49

I would pare back the frequency of the meals, and say to him that he is invited again on the proviso that he keeps his offensive sexist views to himself. If he amends his behaviour fine, if not, no more invites.