How do I navigate this?

[namechangeGOT]

Background -
me 40 him 48
Married 18 years, together for 22
1 child - 12 years
House owned outright no mortgage.
Sex frequently.
He has about 50k in savings, me none.
I pay all bills, he pays for holidays/car repairs/DIY etc.

Issue -

I don't think I'm in love with him anymore. The more I think about it the less I see myself growing old with him. Of course there are good times, we holiday a lot, we're comfortably well off, the 'ease' of my life makes me think I would be stupid to go it alone now. I've never even lived alone before, our child has everything he could possibly need. This would end if I left. I do fancy him, occasionally but more often than not he just simply gets on my tits. I love him and care for him but I cannot shake the feeling that I am missing out on my life by being frightened to death to leave.

Will I balls up l? Will my son hate me forever more. Of course, I have no desire to hurt my husband, he's a kind hardworking man with a lot on offer but I just don't 'want' him anymore. Quite honestly? He bores the fuck out of me. This isn't a flash in the pan thing, iv felt like this for some time and I am trying my hardest to make any rushed decisions but I don't know what to do.

I have a family who would help me, yes I would be far less 'well off', but I would feel so free.

The thing is, I know my husband does not feel this way, I know he loves me, he does see us in our old age and he would be devastated if I was to end it. We do things together, we go away, we have nights out. In fact, everything 'written down' sounds idyllic but I'm not in love with him.

What do I do? Again, I don't want to rush this but what do I do to prepare for if I do decide to leave? How do I make this better for him? I'm in such a mess that I'm making myself ill with the stress of it all.

He sounds SUFFOCATING. Op, join a women’s institute, ‘I really feel like I need to give something back and it’s such an amazing group blah blah blah’ ang please please go for a run. Tell him you want to go alone, you hate the treadmill it feels like your feet hit really heavily compared to outside (I feel this, I don’t like treadmills), reach out to your friend who’s drifted and say I’d love to catch up I mean just me and you not BoBTheGluedOnHusband. I guess you should book joint counselling where you tell him how you feel. Which is absolutely smothered and emotionally manipulated to never ever have a free moment without him and oh my god you can’t breathe. Share some of these examples.

And this just proves the point I was making to @sunflowersngunpowdr . OP , this is actually a very very disturbing situation.

Here's what would happen if you insisted on going out, or had been insiting in the past - he would have told you that you wanted to cheat, accused you of flirting, insisted you were out fucking other men. This would have been interspersed with woe-is-me whining about how you obviously don't love him, dont' care about his feelings etc. Topped, most likely, with whinges about how he is only this way because he loves you so much, is so insecure blah blah. The final nail is the one that not ALL men like this use, but he clearly would have, involving crying to the DC about how mummy doesn't love them enough either.

If you are going to try to carve out your life for yourself before you just walk out, you need to be prepared for these. There are stock answers you need to just continue to respond with. So to the accusations of cheating, "I'm not cheating, you know that. If you really believe that, you shouldn't be with me. To the woe is me attitude, "I love you very much but it's perfectly okay for an adult to want some time and space with other people." To the whinges that he's insecure, "I'm sorry you feel insecure but that is your problem, not mine. I can't change that. YOu should seek help - I'll support you with that" And to the passive aggressive comments to your DS, "Blimey, Dad's being a bit silly isn't he? I'll get you some treates if you like, just let me know. But right now I want to gossip with Jane over a coffee and frankly, you'll be bored AND the conversation isn't appropriate with you. I'll see you later."

Your DS is 12. I'll be interested to see at what point he starts pushing back as well or if he's been so indoctrinated he's going to struggle. What happens hwen he wants to go out with friends or do things independently?

This.

Honestly? In your shoes, I'd leave. You got together with him when you were just barely an adult, and have never lived on your own. It sounds like you've never had a chance to properly get to know yourself. Don't you owe it to yourself to find out who you really are? You, on your own, not as one half of a suffocating relationship.

I don't think he's as nice as you seem to think, tbh. He sounds extremely controlling and manipulative. I'd get out while you're still relatively young. I very seriously doubt that you'd regret it.

Sorry OP but this is sounding worse with every post. He's controlling and manipulative. I'm not surprised you're not happy he is managing almost every part of your life.

You are allowed to be happy and live a full and busy life. You are allowed to do things on your own and choose your own coat and go running whenever you like.

I think you do what he wants because the alternative is difficult and he makes it known that he's not happy.

You are entitled to a fair share of the assets whether they are in his name or not. I really think you should get some advice.

I am retracting my earlier ‘maybe he doesn’t quite realise ‘ feelings based on the M and S food shop post
that is manipulative , spiteful and immature.
It is utterly unforgivable to pitch a young child against you so that he gets his way of keeping you on a short leash.
It is him that can’t survive alone .
Please consider Women’s Aid / Counselling to help you understand your autonomy and give you the tools to either thrive within the relationship- or leave .
and if nothing else , please consider what masculine behaviour is being modelled to your son.

Today has been a very difficult thing for me, reading all of these. I think writing down some of the things that are 'normal' in my marriage, things that I have just become accustomed to have made me see them for what they are. And that's not been an easy thing to have done. I think I have become so robotic in my acceptance of being told what to do that I havnt seen what's truly been happening. I don't think I do still mainly. I waiver between 'how stupid have you been', to 'he's just looking after you' - he tells me often how much he looks after me. This strikes me as odd - there's a line in game of thrones where Tywin tells Joffrey that 'any man who says I am the king is no true king' and this rings a bit true here, surely I don't need telling I am being looked after?

Tonight, I have made a pie. A mince beef and onion one. I was 'told' I had put the oxo cube in at the wrong time. How will I know if Iv browned the mince enough if Iv made it brown with the oxo is what I was asked. I'm 40, not 18 still. I've realised, he treats me like a child. Everything is annoying me, but frightening me at the same time. In bed, at night he clings to me like I'll vanish. It irritates me. My favourite genre of music (bizarrely Gangsta Rap!) is met with criticism and mockery.

At the risk of coming across as Samantha Brick, I am pretty, I do not look my age. I have a nice figure and I take care of myself. I try and dress well. He never ever says I look beautiful, unless we are out with his friends. Then he ramps up the compliments to quite an embarrassing level. I don't understand it.

I'm just so confused and tired. My head has been in a quandary now for 2 years and it's exhausting.

I'm so very grateful for the messages on here. I will try to be better.

You've outgrown him @namechangeGOT and you don't need looking after or to be told what to do.

It will be hard to break away but you only get one life. His wants and needs are not more important than yours.

Good luck.

You don't need to be better.
It's great that you are now realising what is going on, although I'm sure it's hard & confusing for you.

Please seek counselling in some form now so that you can explore & process these thoughts further.

You could have a very different life away from the controlling grip of this man and it could be amazing.

Op, your last post really resonates with me. Something is always wrong with whatever I've done, clinging onto me at night, no compliments unless we are out, telling me how much he does for me. The difference between us is that my stbxh is more subtle with his attempts to control me. I'll go away for the weekend with friends (he knows I wouldn't accept being told I can't) but at some point he'll call and have a go at me, accusing me of not putting the children's coats in the right place, for example, or not leaving the right food for them. If I move away from him at night, he'll tell me he needs me to hug him as he's so stressed with work, or so lonely because I don't give him enough affection during the day etc, etc. He also doesn't like me doing volunteering/ studying as he says I'm only doing these to avoid spending time with him. It's mind blowing what their emotional manipulation trains us to put up with. But no more. I will be divorced before the end of the year. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. And I don't believe they will change. Please leave him and find yourself. You may well have another 50 years on this planet. Take your freedom back.

Dear @namechangeGOT . I feel so sad reading your post as it reminds me painfully of me. My marriage and yours are different in many ways, but what is similar is this, I too was unhappy for a very long time, and while I felt that it had something to do with my husband, I could not, for the life of me, point the finger at it. It all looked like he was a great husband, many women envied me on being with him, and yet, I was so sad and unhappy. What opened my eyes was counselling. I would just throw things at her, randomly and they made no sense to me, but every now and then she would come with words like, controlling, abuse, narcissist and little by little the fog was clearing and I starting learning the truth about my marriage and my husband. Do not get me wrong, I am still often confused and if asked, cannot respond in a clear and concise way when someone asks why I decided to leave, but I did.After being with him for 25 years I finally found a courage to leave him. I was deeply unhappy, I was lost to myself, I did not know who I was anymore or what I wanted, when present, he would suck up all the oxygen in the air, it would be hard to breathe. I have been separated for three and divorced for a little over one year and as of now, I absolutely do not want another relationship, I feel like I am done, I just want to be left alone, I want to be by myself, I want to be free.

Problem is that when you say abuse and control, you see physical violence, but more often then not, it is all but. My ex husband never, yelled, screamed, cursed, or hit me.He was mostly a good father to our kids. He never told me what I should and should not be doing, but he made sure I knew what he wanted and eventually, whenever I had to do something, go somewhere, buy something, say something, I would “confer” with him in my head.

I am sorry, I could go on and on about this, especially because, I am still learning, still clearing that fog. Anyway, my advice is, start therapy, you will see how soon they will be able to sift through all of it and help you see things for what they are. You may decide to keep your marriage, perhaps do couples counselling or something, but based on my personal experience, I would say, run, and do not look back!

Good luck OP!

I’m not sure if it’s already been recommended but I found a book called “Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to stay” (or something very similar) really helpful.

@namechangeGOT you dint need to be better. There is NOTHING wrong with you.
Youve just been dragged down by someone who slowly eroded your freedom in the name of love/care.

Can I suggest you see a counsellor to help you process all of this?
I have no doubt it’s hard to swallow, the realisation that the man you thought was amazing isn’t actually such a good man.
Do you think he’d let you do that?

@namechangeGOT This must be suffocating and overwhelming for you- your eyes are open and now deciding what to do next will be tricky. I suggest start small, there are plenty of female only classes and spaces that you can escape to, to give yourself breathing space. If he asks to join you- well he doesn’t meet the criteria. I hope you find tbe space to make a decision- if I were in your shoes I’d give him an ultimatum, change or loose me.

I read your opening post and at first thought ok this marriage just needs a little work and it'll be fine. Then the more I read, the more horrified I became.

He is controlling. It's just not as "obvious" as you never go against his wishes in any major way. The example you gave of going to the shop without him and his comments on the matter were a good example. Those little digs that make it quite clear he wasn't happy about it. That's not normal. The way he got the treadmill so you wouldn't go out running, so then you just used that. He has you so conditioned into doing what he wants.

Controlling behaviour isn't always overt. It can be very subtle. Things like not doing something as you know he won't like it, and it's just easier not to. He also uses your DS to get his own way, like making any hobbies you want to try a "family" thing.

Him having all the savings is a part of the control issue. He wants to leave you without funds so that you can't leave him. You can't even buy your own coat without going through him!

Please take some of the suggestions you've had on board. Counselling and/or joining a female only activity. You need to get some support and a life outside of this marriage. The way you're living isn't right and that's why you feel the way you do. It's not you, it's him.

Thank you everyone. My husband is working a late shift next Wednesday, I have decided to go and see my sister while he is working. I'm going to show her my posts here I think as I'm not very good explaining things in person. My worry is that, funnily enough, she's not that keen on him and never has been and her advice/help may be a bit biased due to her feelings surrounding him. I need things clear in my head before I speak properly with him.

I'm not a wallflower or an introvert, I am usually quite vocal when it comes to opinions/my POV. I don't understand how I've got to this stage. I don't know where I've lost who I was or even why.

I don't know if anyone has posted this OP but reading "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft, free pdf here could help a lot. It covers all types of abuse from emotional to physical and also covers leaving safely. I found it helpful to solidify some "no, this isn't right" feelings and give you some feeling of validation.

The way he involves your son in his control over you makes my blood run cold. If that happens again, I'd just say "oh, you two will love a boys night in!" or something flippant/jovial like that.

Can you reach out to your son's Godmother again? You can always say you can't say too much but are considering changes in your life and would love to be in touch more. It sounds like she has his number and could help you see the wood from the trees.

ETA that's a great idea to see your sister. I wouldn't worry about her not thinking well of him - there will be a reason for that based on what she has seen of his treatment of you. You don't need to give him every benefit of every doubt anymore.

I think unless you've decided to definitely want to go, you need to explain that you (as with most people) need some 'me time' and make sure to act on it and get it. Start running outside again, sod the bloody treadmill. Me time is not necessarily a reflection of the partner, it's just something most people need for themselves. No wonder you feel suffocated - you are being! FWIW, I think his behaviour does sound controlling. You should be able to go out and do what you want without him coming up with a way or reason not to.

Oh I've just read more posts - the M&S thing, the overegged compliments when with others. Awful.

Definitely have an honest discussion with your sister about how you feel, about how things are, about how to get back to the you that you would have been if he hadn't been conrolling and squashing you (clue: you either lay down the law and set about doing whatever tf you want or you leave him). He won't like having his (imagined) authority over you challenged. People who behave like he has been doing (probable narcissist) are usually unhappy and uncomfortable with themselves and insecure at their core and above all do not want to be alone. So he may adjust his behaviour if he understands you're sick of his ways and what you want him to do and not do. Or he might not. OR you might have just gone past the point of wanting to see if he's capable of change. I mean he's choosing to behave in these ways so he should be capable of choosing not to.

You simply cannot spend any more of YOUR life feeling anxious about just wanting to be you. Ugh - so sick of men that want to own a shiny lovely lady who takes care of them and end up squashing and tarnishing their spirit with badness. He doesn't own you - you both need to recognise that you being with him is a choice.

This moment you are having (and posted about last night) is quite overwhelming and scary so please be kind to yourself. It involves reframing a great deal about your relationship and yourself, and that is not something you can do in 5 minutes.

A few points specifically on this post though:
YOu say your sister isn't keen on your DH and you're concerned this will negatively impact her views. The reality is that it's far more likely that your sister is not keen on him because she has always been aware of his short comings on some level. She knows and loves you so she's probably seen the way he controls you and hated it. Also, family members re often the ones who do see some of the genuine negative stuff for various reasons. Sometimes, it's because as part of the abuse the person starts by attempting to alienate their victim from family using one or more techniques such as ) putting barriers in place for relationships with family b) subtly convincing the victim their family are a bad influence/toxic/unpleasant so that the victim chooses to distance themselves and/or has conflict or c) by attempting to create a negative view of the victim by the family so that the FAMIL will distance themselves/create conflict. The third option is one that works for the abuser even if it doesn't work as planned as it creates distance, but it does mean the family are more alert to the abuser's tactics.

Re not being a wallflower or an introvert - of course not. Relationships like this often develop with strong, independent women. You have empathy, the confidence to be able to review a situation from multiple perspectives etc... sadly, that feeds right into his desires as it means he can convince you that your view is not the right view and his is. I

I read your initial post and thought your marriage just needed some work. But having read through the thread, it’s clear to me that your husband is a passive aggressive, covert narcissist and it’s very, very damaging not only to you but to your child too.

I think you should read this book and then get finances in order asap. Don’t tell him anything. See a lawyer. Speak to your family and close friends and make sure they know what’s going on. You are going to need a lot of support.

This book should help you clarify what’s been happening over the years and how your husband has been able to manipulate you with expert precision.

https://ia600600.us.archive.org/31/items/hybridphilosophy-collection/The-Covert-Passive-Aggressive-Narcissist-by-Debbie-Mirza.pdf

After you’ve read it, you can look up the author on YouTube Debbie Mirza and she has lots of videos you can watch. But read first and try to let it all sink in. What you’ve been experiencing is actually horrific manipulation and abuse over a long period of time. It’s insidious and slow burning. I hope this helps and you can get the help you need to be free of this. For you and your child.

@TipsyJoker I have just skim read that book. Thank you. If the opportunity presents itself, I will pass it to SIL whose ex is currently entering into a hoovering phase.

OP - good luck speaking with your sister. Please do so with an open mind - her negative view of him is not a bad thing, it's a sign of problems you probably couldn't see for al ong time. x

Im late 50’s, and I can honestly say that over the last 20 years, every single woman I have known in your situation, feeling like “something is missing” or “the grass is greener” and who has ended their relationship, has been worse off and is now alone or with someone second rate.
Good men are very hard to find so try to work and build on what you have.
The menopause has a lot to answer for .

Sorry OP. I confess to not reading the full thread before writing the above, and your updates re his controlling and suffocating you do change things.

I'm not in a very good place today. Iv spent the last two days analysing the entirety of my marriage, going back to when we first moved in together.

I remember with clarity when we first moved into the house. He used to go out a lot, he would tell me every time when I asked about tea that he'd be back at 8pm. So I would get our tea ready and he wouldn't come back. Everytime, but I wasn't allowed out. I even remember his dad saying that it's not right for couples to go out separately.

He had a stag do in Prague, they got him one of those strippers that takes his clothes off and cavorts all over them. That was in 2006, in 2009 his friends put the pictures on Facebook for all to see during one of my IVF cycles. I never had a hen do, I couldn't afford it.

Iv never lived alone.
Iv never been on a 'girls' holiday.
Iv never even been on a spa day or anything like it.

Iv travelled the world with him and yet, iv never been anywhere alone. I once told him I was going to Doncaster Christmas shopping but there had been an accident so traffic was horrendous so I went to Meadowhall instead, he went saw the receipts stating 'Meadowhall', I was given the Spanish Inquisition for days about that. He still didn't believe my reason for changing my mind.

I have so many things going through my mind I can't cope with it.