Talk to me about gaslighting. Am I guilty?

[BrightSideOfTheMoon]

My adult child has said I gaslight her. I don't recognise it at all. I am distraught. She wants me to talk to her about it so I need to understand more. I do not want to brush what she says aside.

She is vulnerable. And almost certainly neurotypical. Going through hell.

She hasn't given me any examples that I can give to make this more comprehensible - what she gives me is generalised and abstract.

I am not going to post identifying details on a public forum, but if anyone can help me to understand what might be going on, I would appreciate it.

We can’t say if you’re guilty as you’ve not given any examples, but I’ve noticed a big rise in younger people on SM saying their parents are narcissistic and going NC with them. It seems to be a trend.

You might be in a tricky spot here because if you deny your gaslighting here that could be seen as gaslighting itself. I’d want my child to know I was very serious about listening to them and resolving any issues, probably the best way to do this fairly is to get some outside help. That way you stand a better chance of understanding each other.

I think it is impossible for people to advise without some examples.

One thing could be that when she tells you how she feels about things you try to reframe her thinking so she views things the way you would.

Could you describe a recent difficult interaction with her perhaps?

It will be impossible for you to even have a proper conversation with her about it, if she will not give actual examples.

Gaslighting is rather a specific thing - where you deny things have happened that the other person experienced and knows happened, make them question their own experience and start to doubt if they can trust their own perception.

It can be don't accidentally I guess but usually isn't. I lived with it for years from my ex and it is very very damaging. Examples from him were eg. Sending a lot of vile text messages and then deleting them from my phone and telling me they were never sent.
Behaving horrifically - then in the evening apologising and begging forgiveness and promising change - and the next morning the evening convo had 'never happened' I'd imagined it and his behaviour the day before had not happened either.

I think it is possible, if you are able to be completely honest with yourself, to think hard about your interactions with her and consider whether you ever deny things or deny her experience or things. If you find that you do, then you will need to keep this at the forefront of your mind and make sure you catch yourself when it next starts to happen, and consciously approach things differently.

But it is also possible that her upset is coming from a different reason - Ime many many young people throw these terms around without any actual understanding of what they really mean.
This doesn't mean that she may not have other genuine reasons to be unhappy about your relationship, and so an open and non-judgemental exploration of her feelings, to understand where things are going awry is almost certainly a very good idea.

Thank you.

I have experienced gaslighting myself and would never do that to someone else. I experienced an abusive relative creating deliberate mayhem - like saying I didn’t give them information that I had definitely given them, spreading lies so that no one trusted me, creating dramas around ‘diary mix-ups’ and refusing to accept that it was them who had got the dates wrong even when shown proof.
My daughter makes a lot of accusations that I don’t recognise, and her clear distress makes it hard to respond. I try to reassure her and listen, and I have apologised for the times I’ve messed up. The things I’ve apologised for are often brought up again and again - like a trump card. It’s very difficult because our interactions tend to be well spaced and then when we do talk she is straight into the ‘issues’ - no time for building some common ground or even chatting about general news.
We have had counselling but it didn’t work out… my daughter got angry with the counsellor.

I would recommend a family counsellor for a safe place fir you both to hash it out. Good luck to you.

We had a counsellor, who we chose together... daughter took issue with her.

I mean I think the issue is confused by the fact is that it is always understood as an extreme type of abusive behaviour. It certainly can be but it’s also more common place than that.

So if someone asked you if you finished the chocolate biscuits and you denied it when you had, then that is gaslighting.

Lots of people might try to get off the hook occasionally when they are confronted by something they don’t want to admit. But that’s different to regularly undermining someone else’s reality to the extent that they disbelieve themselves and question their own perceptions.

I think the term is used far too often currently.

You still haven't given an example of what your daughter sees as gaslighting...

You also need to stop apologising for the same things and tell her "no, I've apologised for that already, you can't keep using that against me"

Does your dd struggle to 'move on' in relationships with other people?

She doesn't give me examples.

I'm not sure.

She can be very 'black and white' about things. Which is her neurodiversity, I think.

She might have heard this term and doesn't quite understand what it really means.

On the other hand, do the two of you have conversations where you disagree on whether or not something happened, or who said what, or who hasn't remembered being told something?

"Explain where you think I've been gaslighting"

Sounds like she has a very dominant personality and sees you'll back down easily.

I have noticed younger people in my family throw around terms like ‘gaslighting’ and ‘narcissism’ like confetti. They constantly use therapy-speak. I’ve been to therapy and I really encourage it if is needed but I do the constant flow of language is tiring.
’Barney is such a narcissist (he turned up 10 minutes late) and I feel so unbelievably triggered by him’ (ex was always 10 minutes late too!) No, Barney is a bit selfish and can be disorganised and you’re a bit pissed off because your ex was as well.
Without knowing any examples it’s hard to say but having been around teens who can present whole rafts of evidence concerning their parents, if your DD can’t give you an example, I would think there probably aren’t any.
However, she is clearly, clearly struggling. Family therapy was tough and she struggled with the counsellor.
Would she be better going to one on her own, one she feels more at ease with, who she can work with without feeling on the spot?

Discussing past events is a total minefield.

She regards herself as very well informed about mental health and was livid when I questioned her understanding of gaslighting. I could have asked the question better but I was feeling exasperated and misrepresented.

She is adult, not teen.

However I suspect that we fall into mum-teen mode when stressed.

@PeggyMitchellsCameo thank you for recognising that she is struggling. I feel it and it rips me apart that she experiences me as a perpetrator.

I've been through a lot of family difficulties and am very open to the likelihood that this messed things up for my own children. I have tried very hard to be open about it and accept responsibility.

It sounds like she can't manage/understand other people not thinking exactly as she does, I don't think it's that unusual in someone ND and I expect that might be what is at the heart of her thinking you gas light her. I would imagine it's also why things didn't work out with the counsellor.

I'd try to explain that people having different opinions or people seeing things differently to other people is not gas lighting. Gas lighting is where someone deliberately makes you think you're going mad by denying something that happened or pretending something happened when it didn't.

Your daughter telling you that you're gas lighting her when you're not is actually a form of gas lighting itself! You are questioning yourself and don't know what is going on or what you've done. However only you know if that is a route worth going down with your daughter!

I think this is all down to her being ND though really - her going through hell probably isn't helping (whatever that means) and she might be taking a bit of that out on you as well. You might be better not addressing the individual issues but going with a general (but genuine) 'I wasn't a perfect parent and I'm very sorry if you feel I got a lot wrong, what can I do to help things move forward?'

I suspect that she struggles with theory of mind and that you have a different perspective from her and it's this that she sees as gaslighting. But that is not the correct use of the term since you are quite clearly trying to understand her position and experience not undermine or deny it. I don't have any advice other than to use a lot of statements like 'so you see it like this' and clearly differentiate that from 'and I see it like this' and be curious as to why you each see it differently. Avoid getting into an argument as to who is right or wrong as that will exacerbate things. Make it ok for her to see it as she sees it but that it's also ok for you to see it as you do. She may need some education around different people have different experiences of the same tho ing and that's ok. I think it would be helpful for you to work with a therapist on this.

So if someone asked you if you finished the chocolate biscuits and you denied it when you had, then that is gaslighting.

It would be gaslighting, if they had either observed you do it, or knew that was the only logical explanation (maybe because you were the only other person there). Otherwise it’s just lying.

Gaslighting depends on throwing into doubt someone’s knowledge/memory of events.

I'd say "DD I'm concerned you feel that way. It's a serious allegation. I need to understand exactly what I do or say that makes you feel that way, so please give me specific examples." If none are forthcoming then I'd be clear that I wasn't going to sit passively while I was accused of an abusive behaviour, so we either talked in specifics or the accusations stopped. She is being extremely unfair to you.

I think if she cannot give a single example, it’s unlikely you are gaslighting her. If she knows this is not true and she is trying to make you doubt reality, she is fact gaslighting you.