No longer blindsided by H

[Gingerloaf]

This is a second thread - first one was ‘blindsided by H’

A couple of weeks has passed since that thread ended and suffice to say the shit show is a gift that keeps on giving.

An attempt was made at face to face discussions about ‘us’ and there were tentative noises from H although his concern for how OW would take his leaving her seemed to occupy his mind rather more than it should.

A period of time to reflect and H has decided he is required to look after his mental health - it’s somewhat bizarre that the perpetrator decides that he is the victim and must be protected at all costs. So I readily agreed to some non contact ( more for myself than him) it took less than 2 weeks for the next contact to be made.
Once again the me, me, me dialogue was started. There was also a completely useless email but hey, we have to show we are ‘reasonable’ even if all other behaviours are that of a small child.

Plenty of things afoot for me - busy calendar ahead.
What has been pleasing is the righteous anger of other woman in my age range who are now seeing this pattern play out in so many long term relationships. This is now taking the form of politely confronting OW and asking WTAF was she thinking??
Reputations are being bruised shall we say - and frankly they have both had a very polite and easy run of it up until now.
There is a lot of evidence that the relationship is strained but that was always predicted and very sad considering this little diversion has cost us a relationship of almost 40 years.

So no reconciliation, not even a whiff of ‘I am sorry’ and certainly no adult / reasonable discussions.

Looking forward to hearing from
@Goldcushions2
@MillyCentTap
@shamedbysiri
@Diarygirlqueen
@Acrossthepond55
@Fannyfiggs

I have noticed an awful lot of tarot card reading reels on FB - apparently he’s coming in with a communication and a desire to reconnect ( according to the spirits) Time will tell! Who says FB is not listening to us??

I can't suggest anything, but I would suggest 50/50 is the starting point.

I would guess the property no longer has a mortgage ?
if there is a mortgage and it is you that has been paying it for the last x months I would expect 100% of the mortgage payments for these months on top of the 50%.

Otherwise if it is you that is paying the bills for the house that would make sense ? as it is you that is using the gas/water/electricity/landline/internet etc etc etc and I expect you have removed him from the Council Tax bill so you get the 20 ?% discount.

Did the higher earner pay a larger amount to the mortgage during these years ? or was it 50/50 or did the lower earner not pay towards the mortgage ? etc.

I think once you establish this in your mind that will make a solicitor's session clearer.

Is there any proof - i.e. a paid £600 per month for the mortgage and b paid 400 for the mortgage i.e. bank statements and mortgage statements.

has anyone received a high amount of money into their bank account i.e. an inheritance and can it be proved where the money came from.

did anyone take x amount of years to be at home to look after children for x years and thus not paid as much into a private pension.

proof and paperwork, as much as you can find/supply will help you the most.

As he has had a complete personality change I do not feel he is going to be kind / considerate / guilty and suggest that you get a higher % because he had an affair and left you and he has her in his ear telling him to get every penny he can - as she will want / need him to contribute to their future
( right now she thinks they have a future and she will want him to pay his way and one day she will realise that he is living in her dead husband's house for nothing - unless she has already sold up and moved )

p.s. the very least he can do is pay for the divorce as he is the adulterer. and I am sure he will pay that willingly as he will want to be ' free '
and yes I see the flying pigs too.

I think this is a question for the legal area of Mumsnet

the above reply is an excellent suggestion from @justasking111 and all you need to do is copy and paste most of your post.

Sometimes you can negotiate the split of the house if you agree to leave pensions alone

Does he have a better pension than you op?

In my case it was about how much each of us had contributed financially to the household during the marriage, up until the date of the split. His abuse and cheating was of no relevance whatsoever, infuriatingly.

I really do think it's worth spending the money on your solicitor @Gingerloaf he or she will have the knowledge of what to do with all the information you can give.

Judge told my mother that my father could have committed adultery with 100 women and it would still have made no difference to the financial settlement.

My mother hadn't worked in 24 years, father paid all bills and it was still 50/50. No dependent children, no pensions, the house (with 20 years still left on the mortgage) was the only asset they had. Judge ordered the house to be sold and the equity - after the bank fees, court fees and the huge credit card bill my mother had run up after my father left were deducted - was split 50/50.

Given the situation you describe, it's likely to be 50/50. There are a lot of variables though and I would suggest that hour at a decent solicitor would be money well spent. As I said earlier, my settlement as unusual in the extreme (and a much longer story). I got 100% and the judge declared my ex's housing needs were met as he was living with OW. My friend got 70%. She had two young children and he was in the process of buying a house with OW. However in order to give him his 30% she had to sell a rental property she'd bought as a young single woman and used to rest to reduce the mortgage on the family home so she could stay there. It really is worth getting legal advice.

Regardless of anything, you will probably have to attend mediation which will hopefully help you avoid court so I would set out what you'd like to happen in terms of the assets and see what he has to say.

Thanks folks

I have spent on the solicitor and no I cannot ask him to pay my legal fees ( seems a bit rich considering I am at the solicitor because of him) and his living with OW counts for nothing

It was worth an ask - frankly it seems that being adulterous and behaving badly is rickety boo in the eyes of the law.

@Gingerloaf

frankly it seems that being adulterous and behaving badly is rickety boo in the eyes of the law

My DS was told by his attorney (US) exactly that. No fault means literally 'no one is at fault'. On one hand it means that stbxDiL cannot stop him from divorcing her, which is good, because she thinks he should take her back. But on the other hand it means he feels he's basically 'paying her' for having cheated on him.

He, too, has a lot of understandable anger on this issue. But he's determined to keep a cool head, lean on friends & family for support, and above all listen to his attorney.

Unfortunately you're right. I was very lucky with the judge in my case who was contemptuous of my ex and did in fact take issue that he had had a fine old time spending thousands out of our business on OW but had stopped paying the mortgage and was happy for the children and I to be homeless. Judge was a decent man who hinted at having a disabled child family member so was very sympathetic to my circumstances. I don't agree that your ex living with OW and having his housing needs met won't come back to bite him on the arse. I have seen it happen before. Be prepared for him to suddenly move out and create distance between them for any perspective legal arrangements.

The only time I have heard of a husband getting ptactically nothing is in a domestic violence case where there is certified domestic violence.

This is similar to what my son was told (again US). That the ONLY thing a judge is allowed to 'consider' in division of assets is domestic abuse. But there has to be an 'official' paper trail with the courts, allegations aren't sufficient.

DS has a restraining order against her, but that on its own is not enough as it's based on allegations.

My ex husband got nothing. Complicated situation. It is very rare.

That's because adultery has not been a crime in England and Wales since the introduction of the Matrimonial Causes Act in 1857.

We'd need a 100 times the number of courts/prisons if it still was...

I don't think anyone is unsympathetic to a spouse that has been cheated on, I have myself in the past, but the courts cannot financially punish someone for leaving a marriage regardless of how that happens.
Can you imagine if we went back to women can't leave because they wouldn't get money from the house.
Well it's just the same with a man leaving, both spouses should get a fair share of matrimonial assets irrespective of the way one of them left.
It's emotionally tough but legally fair for both parties, as it should be.
I know it's human naito want to get one over on him financially but it will be far healthier for you to realise there has to be a fair split of assets and then move on in your headspace, another step on your road to leaving him in the past where he belongs.

Thanks folks - it seems that people’s experience varies - in the past the errant spouse may have paid legal fees
The concept of no blame divorce has practical advantages but at the end of the day there are some divorces that are due to a ‘fault’ or action of a spouse

It was worth an ask because IRL so many people tell me what they had eg 60/40 split, legal fees paid - this simplified version is perhaps more brutal on some spouses

I honestly think the ‘no fault’ divorce should be a mutually agreed option. To me it somehow devalues the concept and seriousness of the nature of marriage and is unfair on the spouse who never desired a divorce and kept their vows.
A marriage is a mutual agreement as well as a legal contract and if one partner honoured the terms of that contract and the other didn’t, they should be treated more favourably. The law usually looks carefully at who broke the terms of a contract to establish what is fair compensation in other circumstances. I don’t think a marriage contract should be treated differently.
Just my opinion and I can see how no fault divorces ease the process for those who mutually want it.

@Thewookiemustgo

If both parties had to agree to 'no fault' that would trap my son in a marriage with a wife who cheated on him for who knows how long. She wants him back and if she could block the divorce in any way, she would. As it is she's stalling at every chance she gets.

She 'broke' the contract. Why should he be 'stuck' with her for any longer than need be because the courts need proof of why he doesn't want to be married to her anymore?

Obvs he's not happy about her ending up with half the 'community property' because it was his job that paid for all off it, but if he was faced with the choice of losing money or not being able to divorce, he'd tell her to take it and shove it up her cheating arse.

Hi, I have been reading your posts and I would just like to comment on your posts about Christmas. Can I point out not to post any pics of Christmas until after you get home as he may realise your home is empty and take the chance to go in and nose around/take stuff. Or you could ahem "lose your house keys" right before you go away and get a new set of locks put in and reinforce the back door locks too. And forget to give him a new set with all the rush of Christmas. But he legally does still have access to your house and I would hate him to take his chances on getting in when you are not there. Don't worry too much about all that no fault divorce stuff, my ex was dreadful, I filed for divorce and he stalled it and refused to file paperwork etc and nothing ever happened to him. It is a joke. At the end of the day focus on getting rid of him and leave karma deal with him and her, karma for you will be you enjoying your freedom with all the people who know he is an utter fool having a beyond middle aged crisis. Think of him with pity, he has just jumped into the bear pit and as soon as she realises there is very little money to be had from him and his divorce, she will throw him back into the pond

That’s absolutely terrible. I’m so sorry.
I don’t think I explained what I meant clearly enough. I meant if both parties agree to the divorce they should be able to do so without attributing blame as an option.
In other cases I still don’t think a veto should be allowed at all and blame should affect the compensatory outcome.
I think it’s totally unfair that her cheating doesn’t affect anything, I was trying to say that if one person broke the contract, they should be made to forfeit their right to veto a divorce and the other spouse should be fairly compensated. At present I think it remains unfair and I would prefer a system where nobody gets trapped but the injured party gets a fair result. It makes me angry just reading about what is happening to Ginger and to your son. I hate injustice of any kind.

If both parties agree to the divorce, they can without apportioning any blame. It comes under irretrievable breakdown of marriage. They can divorce a year after the separation happens.
If one doesn’t agree, the other can apply for a divorce under Irretrievable breakdown, 2 years after separation. Other can only stop it if there are issues regarding finances he/ she can bring up.
If there are no children and finances are agreed between parties who both agree to the divorce, it’s cheap and easy one year after separation.
Disputes and children make it expensive.
You should try to negotiate agreement before going to court.
My first was negotiated before we saw the judge. We had 3 days of court in the High Court booked, but because we came to an agreement reached in the hallway while waiting to go in, it took half an hour. We each went into the witness nox, answered a couple of questions under oath. He went first and went home while I went in. After my questions, I was told, by the judge, I was granted my divorce . The money was rubber stamped and I had full custody of the child under 16. All done. Expensive though ..took most of my settlement. Thank goodness it was only a couple of hours of court time.

#2 was a quickie divorce. He didn’t want it. So I waited 3 years… I had a stroke in that time, ..served him papers and 3 weeks later got a letter from the Sheriff that my divorce was complete. No visiting court . No lawyers. Downloaded forms , posted to court. All done by post. I wasn’t looking for anything from him. He threatened to come after me for money after he got the papers. I laughed in his face. For one, I had nothing, he’s a millionaire. For 2 , the three weeks was already up and the letter was probably in the post.

He was a serial adulterer. And a bully. I think I could have had him done for abuse separate to the divorce but it wasn’t worth the hassle.

I think divorce was simplified to make it easier for women who weren’t allowed to own property back in the day, who were totally dependent on their menfolk. I think it was only in the late 1969s or 70s that a woman could open her own bank account without her father or husband.
Things could be fairer but maybe they’ll do something further down the line.

I hope so too. I understand why things are set up the way they are but one size never fits all and the outcomes alter lives forever. No system is perfect, sadly.

My eldest son in London went for a mutually agreed divorce. No one committed adultery, they just went off each other. It was done online forms and post , too. No mutual children.
Children always mean court because they have to be sure there are adequate arrangements. For example, if I hadn’t had a bedroom for my son to have to himself aged 4, my husband who stayed in the marital home, would have got custody

I think there should be (although I know there isn’t) an argument made that OP’s hard-earned money shouldn’t be adding to the already well-oiled pension fund of the Merry Widow. Who knows if that isn’t her modus operandi. Would love to know if Mr Budgie was married prior to her getting her feathery claws into him. I suspect she’s the type.