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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

No longer blindsided by H

1000 replies

Gingerloaf · 13/10/2024 14:04

This is a second thread - first one was ‘blindsided by H’

A couple of weeks has passed since that thread ended and suffice to say the shit show is a gift that keeps on giving.

An attempt was made at face to face discussions about ‘us’ and there were tentative noises from H although his concern for how OW would take his leaving her seemed to occupy his mind rather more than it should.

A period of time to reflect and H has decided he is required to look after his mental health - it’s somewhat bizarre that the perpetrator decides that he is the victim and must be protected at all costs. So I readily agreed to some non contact ( more for myself than him) it took less than 2 weeks for the next contact to be made.
Once again the me, me, me dialogue was started. There was also a completely useless email but hey, we have to show we are ‘reasonable’ even if all other behaviours are that of a small child.

Plenty of things afoot for me - busy calendar ahead.
What has been pleasing is the righteous anger of other woman in my age range who are now seeing this pattern play out in so many long term relationships. This is now taking the form of politely confronting OW and asking WTAF was she thinking??
Reputations are being bruised shall we say - and frankly they have both had a very polite and easy run of it up until now.
There is a lot of evidence that the relationship is strained but that was always predicted and very sad considering this little diversion has cost us a relationship of almost 40 years.

So no reconciliation, not even a whiff of ‘I am sorry’ and certainly no adult / reasonable discussions.

Looking forward to hearing from
@Goldcushions2
@MillyCentTap
@shamedbysiri
@Diarygirlqueen
@Acrossthepond55
@Fannyfiggs

I have noticed an awful lot of tarot card reading reels on FB - apparently he’s coming in with a communication and a desire to reconnect ( according to the spirits) Time will tell! Who says FB is not listening to us??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Thewookiemustgo · 15/11/2024 10:00

@YorkshireTeaDance another ploy is to block the number when they at home to avoid any notifications or contact showing up then and unblock it when they want contact. Phone going everywhere with them, even to the bathroom, phone ‘accidentally’ left in coat pocket when they get home, phone constantly face down, all can look normal but might not be. Frequent cash withdrawals and unusually large amounts of it in their wallet which vanishes quickly is never good. Cash/ burner phone hidden in the car, in the garage to pay for stuff so that it stays off credit card bills and statements, viagra hidden with it. The garage and compartments in the car you don’t usually go into keep it all out of the house.
Horrible feeling and I’m so sorry. Cheating really brings out the devious in people.

DearDenimEagle · 15/11/2024 10:18

YorkshireTeaDance · 15/11/2024 07:55

You are doing so well dealing with all of this in such an outwardly calm and collected way.

I'm still gathering evidence. I've trawled through a huge amount of info and so far have found nothing incriminating. Although I have access to his phone, he usually has it with him so I don't get long blocks of time to check it out surreptitiously.

On the surface he's doing all the things that make me feel we have a future together, but I still don't feel safe. I've discovered two small lies which could be innocuous or quite significant, and need to do more digging. I'm not confronting him this time without hard evidence. I'm grateful to have your thread as an example of what to expect and how to behave if things turn out as I suspect.

Look for numbers he phones a lot. The bill itemises numbers called most frequently on a landline. That’s how I found mine. If it’s just mobile, scanning the list normally triggers recognition of how often a number reappears..also if they are called at odd times. Mine was on the landline to Y and others, between midnight and 4 am. when he thought I was sleeping.

Mine also knew I left my previous because of infidelity. He vowed he would never ever do such a thing. He hated cheats. His wife cheated, he said, and it was an unforgivable act. He was a serial cheater. He said what he had to say to get what he wanted. Would not have known the truth if it jumped up and bit him.

I always say, trust your gut. Instinct has been there to save us since we left the primordial soup. We ignore it at our peril and I did ignore it, too long.

He might never have strayed. He might have strayed and stopped when you voiced suspicions. He might never stray. He might have gone deeper underground as mine did.
The point is, trust is gone. You are feeling the need to check on him. You will never feel safe…the least thing will have your antennae twitching. I read on a similar thread that if you get to that stage, you don’t need proof, it’s already over, just leave and avoid the stress, but I did. I needed to prove my bullshit detector was in full working order.
I overheard mine on the phone to Y, the main one at the end, that he was lulling me into a false sense of security and it was working, because I was singing while cleaning out the fire and I hadn’t sung for months. He was all sweetness and light and it was all a lie.

cookiebee · 15/11/2024 11:15

I had an interesting memory triggered by some things in this thread concerning partners who seem very moral and together regarding the idea that cheats are awful and they never would, but then go on to break that illusion.

It’s possibly ten years now, but me and my late mum bumped into a relative, she was the sister of my uncle by marriage. For personal reasons we don’t speak to him now, but we had seen her enough over the years to be well acquainted.

She broke the news to us that her and her husband had separated and she told us he had had an affair, she also revealed that after this affair came to light, she discovered that he had been cheating on her their whole marriage, probably 40 years by this point.

When she first brought him home to meet the family in the late sixties, they had all fallen about laughing about him behind his back, not nice but il explain the reason. She was a tall, leggy Sandie Shaw type, considered an absolute doll as was said at the time, don’t worry she enjoyed this. He on the other hand was short and considered not very attractive, they looked a right odd pair together, but they fell in love. The family all came to love him, he was charming, but as she said to us, one of the things she found most attractive about him were his morals! He was dependable, he wanted marriage, children, his moral values included lifelong fidelity, he couldn’t abide men who cheated on their wives. They did well money wise, we are a working class family so were amazed and a bit jealous, they had two kids and even adopted a third to give a poor unfortunate an amazing life, their house was incredible, they just seemed to have it all.

But this unattractive but dependable man went on to have woman after woman behind his families back. She rejected all the gorgeous blokes way back who she thought were only after one thing, and back then that one thing could land you with a dangerous backstreet abortion, as another poor aunt experienced (you wouldn’t believe her experience as told by my mum), and she chose who she thought would treasure her and be by her side for life, only for him to literally lie and waste her life.

Im not entirely sure of my thinking with telling you all this, but it can be impossible sometimes to gauge other humans. As OP has found out, they can hide these appalling sides to themselves and we have to remember that it wasn’t our faults. No one could have seen these things coming, these sudden character reveals that this is not who you married, and sometimes even mr dependable can turn out to be mr twat face, I’m not sure if those were actual characters in the Mr Men series of books!

YorkshireTeaDance · 15/11/2024 11:18

Thank you all! He's not secretive with his phone and will often ask me to send a message for him or look something up if he's driving. I will take the next opportunity to check calls, etc. We don't have a landline. I will also look for clues to a 2nd phone.

He knows infidelity has always been my red line, and has voiced similar opinions over the years.

Leaving at this point in my life is not simple purely due to finances. We're both in our mid 60s, and have been together for decades. We had a business that went under during the pandemic and we lost everything. DH's job currently supports us both. I'm not quite state pension age, my health isn't always great, and I would struggle to live on my own. I don't know what I'd do if he upped and left, but I have started to squirrel away what I can to try and at least get one duck in a row. I've always been strong and confident, but this is taking a toll.

MillyCentTap · 15/11/2024 11:25

It's the worst feeling in the world, knowing something's not right but not having any proof and knowing if you bring it up with them they'll just make you out to be crazy/unreasonable/whatever. Bastards.

I still have a fair amount of his stuff which he won’t collect - I think a few things will have to go into the bin to make space for my new life.

Do be careful with binning stuff @Gingerloaf . If you do the 'right thing' at all times, as unbearable as that will feel, you can't be called up for being unreasonable. I know, the irony 🙄

Can you pack it all in random boxes, all mixed up in no order, literal rubbish included, taped up so securely he'll need to call the bomb squad to open them, and have it delivered by a removal company to the OW's place? All in one go, at a not very convenient time, to be paid for by him? It's the least he could do, paying for his own precious things to be delivered, thank you very much, to his luverly new home. Even if he won't pay for it it's worth the money to be rid of his shit. And you can add it to the long list of what you've contributed financially to the marriage, or breakup thereof.

It makes sense, all of his stuff being in her house, which was probably already full of a lifetime's treasures with dear dead whatever his name was.

LivelyMintViper · 15/11/2024 13:51

I don't think people ever act out of character. That was who they were all along. And if you have never been tempted then you can't claim virtue for resisting. But so many do. Often people don't get the opportunity to cheat but that doesn't mean they are faithful and once the opportunity lands in their lap just watch them go!
I'd be inclined to send him a quote for packing and delivering all his stuff. Why should you have to sort it out? Once he pays you'll contact the relevant professionals
Stay strong, Lovely

Fannyfiggs · 15/11/2024 15:36

it was enough that it took a while to get and I am trying not to give him any ammo. If he’s not angry with me he cannot then bond with OW so easily. I can’t explain just yet what it is that they wanted

I completely understand that. I suppose the ideal stance with everything is indifference. Leave all his stuff as it is, give him nothing to complain about, shrug your shoulders at his demands and show complete indifference.

What you actually think and want to do is a different matter. Imagine taking a hammer to his stuff, leaving it at the charity shop, putting it all in a storage unit in his name and giving him the key or simply just gather the neighbours to play kick the cheating bastard's stuff up and down the street ❤️

ThePoetsWife · 15/11/2024 16:01

YorkshireTeaDance · 15/11/2024 09:26

check all names on the phone an OW could be under Gary or plumber. Has he changed his way towards you - less/ more attentive? Showering more?

Thank you. He hasn't changed his ways recently, though there was a time last year when I was sure he was following The Script. I didn't find any damning evidence but the suspected OW was someone he worked with (he no longer does) so it would have been easy to hide at the time. I stupidly confronted him with my suspicions. He denied anything was going on, said he was sorry I felt low on his list of priorities, and has since improved his behaviour towards me.

I will check the contacts in his phone when I get a chance.

Edited

Check deleted emails

StrungWithSilverBellsAndFlowers · 15/11/2024 17:51

OP, I have no words of wisdom or advice but wanted to say I have been reading your posts from the start (both threads) and have been silently cheering you on. I suspect there may be many others of us lurking, but wishing you well.

I am going to go back to lurking now, but please know that you almost certainly have a big band of silent well-wishers hoping for good things for you.

Good luck

Fraaahnces · 16/11/2024 12:37

Oh they’re ALL opposed to infidelity…. (Until infidelity lands in their laps) They just don’t see themselves as immoral, lying, cowards. They change the narrative to turn themselves into the betrayed (by job, circumstance, fictitious story where they are the victim of years of their wife’s neglect/abuse/deviousness….) - then to spin it around and become someone else’s hero (*chauffeur/budgie smuggler/gerontologist) - that’s the ultimate way to villain to hero cliche screenplay, right?

Thewookiemustgo · 16/11/2024 13:03

@Fraaahnces it’s the classic history re-write as they desperately look for scapegoats for their immoral, crap choices.

I’m cheating / running away which is morally wrong and a selfish, shitty thing to do to somebody as lovely as Gingerloaf and this is all my fault therefore I’m a bad person = guilt, shame, feeling shit…..
Now, that can’t be right because I think I’m great and Budgie Woman thinks I’m a freaking legend, even better than half an hour with a mirror with a bell on it and a stick of millet…….How to square this circle…..Aha! I know……
I had no choice. I had to leave to find happiness/ escape the awfulness/ abuse/ harpie wife therefore…..wait for it……I’m actually a …..victim!
Ta-Daaaaa!!! Now there’s no shame or guilt for me, no Sireee… I transfer my guilt and shame into my innocent wife and now I feel deserving of pity, exonerated, self-righteous and an all-round good guy who never hurt anybody yet was so badly treated. Actually I’m surprised the Pope hasn’t called yet to declare me Saint Budgie Smuggler for everything I so valiantly put up with for so long…blimey, this blame - shifting bollocks doesn’t half feel good….more bird seed, darling?
Grown adults lying to other grown adults and lying to themselves. Rank cowardice.

Gingerloaf · 16/11/2024 14:54

Thank you folks - I have had a lovely time away with limited internet
I caught up with a friend - who had been at our wedding and she was so lovely. Basically he was punching above his weight ( which he was) and has been a twat. That OW won’t let him go because there is something creepy about her need for a man to squire her around ( and from her eyes she has time travelled 10 years back with a young man) but he is in a prison and is headed to be a carer. Whilst life will get better for me - we checked out the estate agents and talked about jobs I would do - this all helps keep my eye on the horizon.
I am getting used to booking into Lenny Henry’s favourite hotel as I travel around ( rubbish internet mind) and enjoy my own time and space.
The fact that so many friends say the same is heartening. I feel boosted for my time away - went somewhere where the charity shops have seriously good clothes in them and bagged myself some bargains!!

I do feel more and more myself as I ping around the country and visit friends - the people who stand by you in these circumstances are absolute gold.

OP posts:
Fraaahnces · 16/11/2024 15:53

You can sit like a basking dragon amidst your hoarde of golden friends and loved ones, having while a marvellous time while he shrivels away with resentment, clutching his rapidly plumeless budgie.

AcrossthePond55 · 16/11/2024 17:15

Fraaahnces · 16/11/2024 15:53

You can sit like a basking dragon amidst your hoarde of golden friends and loved ones, having while a marvellous time while he shrivels away with resentment, clutching his rapidly plumeless budgie.

@Gingerloaf

Now that's a good mental picture for you!!

Getting away is always good. And it seems to me you're getting better and better at 'counting your blessings'. That's wonderful!

I have a feeling when this is all over and the dust has settled, you'll be relishing your freedom and start to wonder "Why didn't I leave years ago?" and be relieved that she's taken him off your hands.

yesmen · 16/11/2024 17:54

I have a feeling when this is all over and the dust has settled, you'll be relishing your freedom and start to wonder "Why didn't I leave years ago?" and be relieved that she's taken him off your hands.

😁😁

Also know as Freedom by the way.

pointythings · 16/11/2024 21:52

I agree that learning to count your blessings is an absolutely vital skill in a marriage breakdown situation. There wasn't an OW involved in mine, just alcohol and a lot of emotional abuse, but I still remember the day, about two days after he was taken away by the police, that I heard my oldest DD singing in the shower - she never did that when he was around, he'd have either mocked or grumbled for her to stop. That was when I realised what freedom felt like.

JustWalkingTheDogs · 17/11/2024 07:43

Fraaahnces · 16/11/2024 12:37

Oh they’re ALL opposed to infidelity…. (Until infidelity lands in their laps) They just don’t see themselves as immoral, lying, cowards. They change the narrative to turn themselves into the betrayed (by job, circumstance, fictitious story where they are the victim of years of their wife’s neglect/abuse/deviousness….) - then to spin it around and become someone else’s hero (*chauffeur/budgie smuggler/gerontologist) - that’s the ultimate way to villain to hero cliche screenplay, right?

Opposed to THEIR wives/GF/Partners being unfaithful. You're right, doesn't apply to them.

Mix56 · 17/11/2024 09:01

As she will be banking all these holidays, he will enjoy getting out of her front room, having opportunities to stay in hotels etc... a holiday is always exciting & different.
He wont have the reality of having nothing to his name, (including having a loving trusting relationship with his DC) worming into his brain...
Its escapism. He knows there's no going back, so he is milking it now.

Return his shit, dump ( heavily any unwrapped fragile stuff) in her drive, preferably on a rainy day so the soggy bottom drops out.

Make sure you have a wonderful Xmas. They will probably go on holiday...remember he will soon be her carer.

AnonAgain367 · 17/11/2024 09:58

Long time lurker here, but just wanted to say I’m in awe @Gingerloaf stay strong 💪 and as my friend would say, self care your way through it!

You will have a fabulous Christmas with your children and their partners, keep focused on that! And start new lovely advent traditions just for you, and maybe treat yourself to some lovely advent calendars

Mix56 · 17/11/2024 11:17

Ooooo, Ive got a fab NUXE advent calendar for my Dd (was on private sale site) from Sephora
Got a men's barber shop one off Amazon for DS.
Both great big babies have told me they require advent calendar's for life 🥰

CinnamonJellyBeans · 17/11/2024 12:15

I've been reading your threads daily.

I think that you might spending too much time and energy living the life of your husband and the OW vicariously. You don't actually know what they're really up to, so inventing lots of possibilities, selecting the most likely scenarios and deciding the outcome is a lot of mental work. And it doesn't sound cathartic.

It could be that you're only doing it when you post here and then switching off in your own space. If so, then that's OK, if you're using this thread to vent.

But I feel that you're getting wound up and egged on by posters here, desperate for the next instalment of your pathetic husband and the OW.

You have been doing amazingly well (sorry of that sounds patronising), but there is a limit to the time and energy you can expend. Spend it on the dancing and self-care, good TV and meeting up with friends and don't give him any of it.

Noshowlomo · 17/11/2024 12:21

pointythings · 16/11/2024 21:52

I agree that learning to count your blessings is an absolutely vital skill in a marriage breakdown situation. There wasn't an OW involved in mine, just alcohol and a lot of emotional abuse, but I still remember the day, about two days after he was taken away by the police, that I heard my oldest DD singing in the shower - she never did that when he was around, he'd have either mocked or grumbled for her to stop. That was when I realised what freedom felt like.

I love this. For you and your daughter! Hope she’s still singing xxx

pointythings · 17/11/2024 18:59

Noshowlomo · 17/11/2024 12:21

I love this. For you and your daughter! Hope she’s still singing xxx

She's 23 now, temporarily living with me again so I can confirm that yes, she still sings in the shower!

Since my husband left our household, we have just gone from strength to strength and I have cats (he hated cats).

Fraaahnces · 17/11/2024 20:54

Hearing about Pointy’s daughter singing is one of the best things I have ever read! (I was the daughter, but she was just as bad).

Gingerloaf · 19/11/2024 22:16

Greetings everyone - a number of people in real life have suggested that the 50 50 split if assets is not always what happens.

I wondered if anyone had examples of what was used to agree a different split?
It seems so varied according to the examples given IRL

So a few things to include - this divorce is under U.K. law, no young children, one person earnt more than the other, H committed adultery and lives with OW, H not contributing to household bills since separation.
I think where there is a difference in the split the length of the marriage may have been taken into account.
I have trawled the internet and there are suggestions that it doesn’t always have to be 50 50 - I suppose I am just trying to save myself an hour of a solicitor fee 😂

It may be useful if contributors indicate if they have experienced this recently or have a legal expertise. The new no fault law seems to be a very blunt instrument IMHO

Looking forward to your insights

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