Court is this right?

[exhaustedmum24]

Hi,

Soo I've got an ex who is extremely controlling and manipulative and uses our 18 month old daughter as a weapon all the time.

I had a mediation meeting yesterday and was basically told that I cannot take him to court to arrange access properly and for us too come to an agreement. I was told that if this man is like this he will prob not attend mediation to start with or even come to an agreement. If this is the case then I have to wait for him to contact court so then it can go to court and we can sort something properly this way. What is getting at me is why I cannot take him to court..... I've been told I can't and they won't look at my application because they cannot force him to have her certain days and times. I'm just really stuck here because I need something sorted. In not soo many words I was told to stop contact which will force him to take me to court but my concerns are 1. This will look bad on me as I'll be stopping contact which isn't what I wanted. 2. He has told me before he cannot afford court so it probably wouldn't happen. Im stuck at what to do, I also cannot be the one too do hand over anymore because of the abuse he gives me it's just really affecting me mentally and I've not been ok the last few weeks because of it.

I don't want to stop contact but I NEED this sorted legally because of the threats of keeping her and the constant abuse I get from him as well as there having to be set days soo she is in a routine and he still gets to see her and she gets to see him. It has been all about him, his works and his life and it's the ways it's been worked around the last 18 months he uses her to control me and my life and uses her against me all the time and I'm fed up with it! Sick of it in fact this is why I need it sorted but after yesterday's news it's thrown me a bit of honest. What can I do about this? 😬

Also he can't be forced by anyone to see his child

You can take him to court but if he says he never wants dd then there’s no need for a CAO. The only positive that you get from a CAO is that you can schedule things for dd because you know that it’s not ex’s time with her. So say dd is invited to a party next Saturday and it’s your weekend. You can say yes as it’s your weekend and you’re happy to attend with her. He can’t swoop in and say dd isn’t going.

Hi Op, isn't it mental.

I was going through the Court system and had a lightbulb moment, I was relieved to think I'd finally have a court order and some stability in our lives. Oh how wrong was I!

Solicitor explained to me no, we can agree in court when he has access, but it doesn't mean anything - it isn't enforced. It means you must make the kids available on certain days in an agreed way (a meeting point/at a home etc). But he is not obliged to see it through. That's the value of your court child arrangements. Lovely. Not.

It doesn't sound like a big deal when you are not in the situation but when you are it's mind blowing how unjust it is. It is unfair on the permanent parent IMO.

In my case I was a single parent with no family in the uk (I am not British) and their English dad was to see them every other weekend. I had no financial support from him and I worked full time. It gave him a means to almost blackmail me as the way I was living (rearing two little kids alone) and working a stressful job meant those weekends child free were almost life saving for my stress levels. But I would be manipulated - "I want to see the kids tonight.Oh the answer is no is it? Well you can sing for it if you think I'm taking them this weekend then!" Etc.

Horrible powerless position.

You need to read my previous threads to understand this situation.

This is a tiny piece of the situation but I was asking about me taking him to court to come to an agreement that works for us both it's not just about me I've been working his way the last 18 months and allowing him to see her when he wants and it's not all about him I have other children to consider and don't appreciate his abuse every time he gets her or picks her up.

I'm not dictating and haven't done but I've put my foot down now because he won't compromise and it's all about him and his way.

*It doesn't sound like a big deal when you are not in the situation but when you are it's mind blowing how unjust it is. It is unfair on the permanent parent IMO.

It's not supposed to be fair to the parents. It's solely for the benefit of the dc and forcing a dc on a parent who doesn't want them there isn't in their best interests at all

Be careful that he’s not manipulating you into spending lots on legal help. I would personally stop contact and see if he took you to mediation and court. Yanbu to want some routine but it sounds like your ex might be pissed off with a court order.

Yanbu to want contact to be scheduled so you can plan social events ahead of time. Whether or not you get the same weekends as her siblings is hard to say but a routine would be good for dd too so focus on that angle.

You can take him to court.Form C100
. 255 pounds. Don't use solicitors.

It really makes me angry because this is the sort of stuff my daughters dad does uses it against me and threatens me and stuff.

Its all about being in control and being able to still cause shit in your life even though your not together and it's sick that they are able to do this through their own flesh and blood.

The only way I can see this stopping is stopping access full stop. This bloke has done enough to me.

I had a mediation meeting yesterday she told me he holds the cards. He pulls the strings because he can choose when he wants to have her and what times and that I cannot summon him to court he has to do it.

Go to court for a lives with order.
When there ask to keep your DD on the same weekend the siblings are home. Offer the other weekend as access for DD to see her dad.
Judges do not like to split brothers/sisters if they don't need to..

@exhaustedmum24 you realise that mediation is voluntary! you do not need to go to that!!! therefore you do not need to give him anything he wants. ask your other ex to swap the weekends.

Yes I do but you have to go through this part to get to court. This is why I did meditation to see if he would come to an agreement with me or if he even attends if he don't then it can progress but I've been told by mediation that I won't be able to apply to court he has too.

Think carefully if it's actually in your daughters best interest to stop contact please. You say he's good with her and sees her regularly. It's just inconvenient for you. That would be pretty cruel, and yes, would look bad on you in court although may not affect any rulings if he's not looking for longer/more contact. It might just back fire on you though if he doesn't bother with court then you would just have her full time which again isn't necessarily in her best interests and not what you're looking for!

I guess your options are tell him it’s the alternate weekends or nothing. This is when she’s available. Then call his bluff. Or try and get the other Dad to switch weekends. Are they both completely unreasonable?

Mediation is a suggestion - not a requirement like a court summons. He’s allowed to say no to mediation and there’s no repercussions apart from you possibly going for a CAO. As pp said it might be worth it so that you can take her on holiday without his permission.

As you’re paying for legal help and he’s clearly all about revenge, ignoring your solicitor will drag out the process and he’ll be hoping that pisses you off and costs you lots of money.

Have you offered to pay for mediation plus a court order? You’ll know how to play this best but some sort of father’s rights chat might motivate him ? Don’t forget that a CAO is about when dd must be available for contact rather than when he will turn up for contact but a Lives With order could help future problems like him meddling in school choices or trying to prevent you taking her on holiday.

@liveforsummer

"It's not supposed to be fair to the parents. It's solely for the benefit of the dc and forcing a dc on a parent who doesn't want them there isn't in their best interests at all"

You've missed your own point. It is in the best interest of the children that they have a stable and routine life and don't have curve balls thrown in. My children hate this.

So having a parent try to change the contact arrangements last minute - and also cancel arrangements last minute - is exactly what you say - damaging to a child.

Nobody is forcing a child on anyone. Blackmailing in regard to the terms as I described is altogether different.

I don’t understand why he holds all the cards?

You: Dear ex, these are the weekends DD will be available to see you from now to Christmas. Let me know which ones work for you.

Him: I don’t want those ones. I want the other ones.

You: Sorry, that’s not going to work for us.

He doesn’t get to see his daughter.

It sounds like in pp's case that it is regular - just not to suit the op. I've not missed any point and have said that eventually court may reduce or withdraw contact for persistent no shows. Mostly though they will view some contact as better than none which while not ideal, it probably is!

I've tried this approach he got really nasty, and threatened to keep her on many occasions he will not change them and will not do anything to support me, it's his way or the high way, he don't care about me needing to start work and needing to have some down time he's all about him his needs and his life it's always been about him he's told me loads of times he will speak to his boss but it's just to keep me sweet because he does not intend to help me at all and change those weekends. I get you chose to be a single parent (because I no longer wanted to be with him) it's all spite and to get at me.

He uses her as a weapon I'm trying to stop this, he uses her to still have some element of control in my life. This is what needs to stop. Why should I have to suffer while he pisses about all the time saying he will have her x y and z days to then change them more than once then change times to suit his needs. He's usually late getting her and he's usually late dropping her sometimes early he will change the time with hardly any notice.

I'll give you an example of what I'm dealing with.

Two Thursdays ago he told me he would have her Thursday till the Sunday, Friday come he couldn't wasn't feeling well apparently, then he saw her Saturday the usual Saturday he has her and told me he would have her the following Tuesday too the Friday as he's booked a week off work to spend more time with her and do other things, Sunday comes and when he drops her says I can't have her Tuesday as I've got dentist Wednesday I can have her after dentist Wednesday, Wednesday comes he can't have her as he's in pain and need to sleep it off Thursday comes he says I might have her Friday night too I say what? Why is it might why not yes or no I have to see if I'm working I said but you've taken time off I need the money I'm struggling then Friday comes he can't have her as he has a decorator coming at half 5.... soo for a whole week I couldn't plan anything because I knew he wouldn't have her when he said he would and he didn't, he made out he had taken time off to see her more that week and saw her a few hours extra as picked her up earlier the Thursday this is what I mean it's when he wants if it's convenient for him and his life, if it's not he won't do it.

OP do you realise that if you take him to court, then you would be the one having to pay?

You cannot force him to see her/dictate what days.

You can say those days don’t work for me and tell him to see her on other days instead.

But if it goes to court, then they may have if court ordered that he has contact on his current days.

Does he have any other kids or works on weekends?
Has he said why he won’t have them on the weekend?

I am not sure how easy it will be for you to work EOW.
You’d be better off getting a job during the week and using childcare.
He is too unreliable anyway.

Just set aside any thought of taking him to court op

You have been told by professional and mumsnetters…..

a) it’s a non starter
b) it would be terrible if a court could force a parent to see a child

Forget getting a weekend job. He won’t change and you get stressed having to cancel last minute. Frustrating but no escaping from it.

And accept that your social life and freedom is not remotely like his BUT you have the sweetest victory of all… you daughter with you most of the time

If you could force a dad to have contact then why would there be so many dead beats around who refuse to have their kids

Get a job whilst she's a nursery and stop him seeing her and let him take you to court. It doesn't mean he has to have her on those days though, if he didn't it would look bad if he ever asked for more but the court won't force him to have her

@exhaustedmum24

That example you gave us is mind boggling. It just grinds you down doesn't it??? It's infuriating. I had very similar. Like, he feels under the weather, so won't take the child? When we are under the weather we don't have any option but to get on with it!

I also felt it was controlling. Now I've a bit of distance from my own situation I can see it was pure disrespect. He did not care if I was left scrambling around making adjustments to plans etc, crying in frustration and having to hide that feeling of being trampled all over, from sight of his own children! He did not care he was making their sole carer feel very compromised which in turn would affect them - and that felt very vindictive. I was a nothing, a non entity.

I took my ex to court as he was blocking me from moving away.

I demonstrated two things to the judge 1) how much I bent over backwards to work around his problems and get him to see the kids (at one point he didn't have a suitable home so I would let him use mine) and 2) my solicitor made me make a chart up - a calendar - and colour code it with how often he actually saw them and colour code in the last minute cancellations.

It was a picture that painted a thousand words. Oh my goodness was it powerful (and painful to compile!) I won my case. My ex was also given a dressing down in regard to his blatant lack of respect for my time and my efforts.

I don't understand why you are being advised not to get a child arrangement order?

Mediation for us was absolutely useless. I think he refused the second time (as too much time had passed for the first to count)