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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Anyone else trying not to contact a guy 3

460 replies

SunsetSkylane · 10/10/2024 21:22

Anyone still want to chat?

@pubertyalloveragain I think you posted last on thread 2, how you doing?

@namechangeforthis5 @Frith2013 @Thewookiemustgo another thread if you want it, or maybe you're all magically cured - or maybe Wookie is sick of our shit 😂😂

OP posts:
Thewookiemustgo · 05/11/2024 18:15

@MainlyWater That’s kind of you to say. I melted my phone doing an empath test! 😂
Staying married isn’t always the best option, not at all. At first I had no idea whether I wanted to, always thought cheating would be a deal breaker. I wouldn’t recommend reconciliation to everyone, it’s hard and not many men can or want to do the work.
I wouldn’t do it again. Doesn’t matter what his issues were/ are, I might empathise but I wouldn’t forgive. That would be that even after 40 years, he either means it or he doesn’t.
The only way to stay married is with the truth. It’s ugly to hear but the only way forward, no point living a lie. It’s the only reason I stayed.
Am saying no more though, that’s not the debate here.

Ruralretreating · 05/11/2024 18:36

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Vanishedinexplicably · 05/11/2024 23:15

SunsetSkylane · 05/11/2024 06:51

Oh I'm looking around, trust me!

How you doing?

Good plan @SunsetSkylane . Hopefully there’s something where you can feel more at home. It does make a huge difference.

I’m feeling utterly miserable. Keep crying. Feel as though I’ll never be happy again, that’s the way I’ve felt since I found about my husband though. I suppose it’s just worse because I experienced feelings I thought I’d never feel again and dared to hope that life might take a miraculous turn for the better.

The posts in here in recent days have made me extremely upset so I’m going to leave this thread now. I was looking for support from people in same situation, not unsolicited advice and lectures based on wrong assumptions with no grounding in fact.

I asked people to stop repeatedly and they didn’t. It’s been horrible and deeply distressing to have people keep going on at me.

I hope people will reflect on their behaviour, and the cost of driving someone in a poor mental state away from genuine support from people in similar situations.

Sorry I can’t continue to support you Sunset, @lovelymango , @Frith2013 , @imanidiotsandwich , @summerbreeze10 and others who were genuinely in similar position. I wish you all all the strength in the world.

SunsetSkylane · 06/11/2024 06:59

I get that and I wish you'd stay.

@Thewookiemustgo you've always been welcome and appreciated on these threads but maybe there's a time to relent a wee bit ( like when someone repeatedly asks you to).

OP posts:
Thewookiemustgo · 06/11/2024 09:58

I’m genuinely sorry this has happened.
I must have got my wires crossed with Vanished because twice I got thanked by her for my balanced advice with no personal request not to. I cross-posted with Sunset, just as I sent my reply to a post, her request which was not yet on my page as I typed only appeared below it once I had pressed send or I would have bowed out.
Above I kept it uncharacteristically short and said to MainlyWater that I didn’t want to debate further and wanted to signal that I was closing any further conversation about this down and had heeded what was asked.
My advice was never intended to drive anybody off the thread and was not bullying or attacking in any way. In everything I wrote I supported Vanished, never personally attacked. That is not who I am.

SunsetSkylane · 06/11/2024 14:36

@lovelymango is there any chance of you moving on somewhere new? Could be the distraction you need?

Are you still holding firm? I'm totally not tbh. But it's just about ok.

OP posts:
HarryPottersSecretSister · 06/11/2024 16:28

Hi Everyone,
I feel guilty and like I need to confess: I have been lurking on this thread on and off for the past couple of weeks whilst you all bare your souls and I almost feel like I'm spying. You have all been a strange comfort to me. I think I just wanted to thank you all for sharing your stories and things you're probably not very proud of: it makes people like me feel not so alone in battling alone with myself through heartache.

I have gotten myself into a terrible mess and have felt alone, ashamed and sad. I am trying but I'm unsure if I am actually out of the mess.

Could someone more in the know please tell me about the 'script': is there actually a typical list of things that attached men tell the 'OW'? is that really a thing.

Strength to you all. I hope whatever is best for each of you happens. x

SunsetSkylane · 06/11/2024 17:39

Welcome aboard @HarryPottersSecretSister

I don't know much about the script as such, although I guess in my case there was a few 'we're not in happy marriages' conversations which opened a bit of a door.

OP posts:
Frith2013 · 06/11/2024 17:48

Hello, @HarryPottersSecretSister

I would also describe myself as having got into a mess and it does seem to take an age to get out of it again !

Thewookiemustgo · 06/11/2024 19:30

@HarryPottersSecretSister I’m so sorry you are in pain, there are a lot of different experiences and support here and some very brave and honest people who are willing to share their stories.
The Script as quoted by Mumsnet isn’t an exact science, however there are many commonalities about what OW have been told. The motivation for saying what they say is the thing to pay attention to and the only proof you have is their actions, not their words.
What you usually hear is what they have told themselves in order to justify doing something that they know is a terrible thing to do, but at the same time need to retain their image of themselves as a good person in order to shelve guilt and responsibility.
In other words, when you get hit on by a married man, the last thing he wants you to think about him is that he’s just a common or garden cheat who is lying to his wife in order to pursue you. Nobody would want a man like that. He needs to convince you he isn’t.
It’s the last thing he wants to think about himself, too, otherwise he’d be filled with guilt and shame. To try to square the circle of the moral dilemma of wanting to do something they know is bad, but still be able to feel good about themselves and still give themselves permission to carry on doing wrong, they must become a victim. If they are a victim, then logically they are justified in what they are doing, and are a poor unhappy soul, trapped in a dead or awful relationship from which they want you to convince you that you, and only you, can save them. They have been so hard done by that they deserve some happiness, the poor lambs.
For selfish, weak, entitled, lying man, read: tragic victim of an awful wife nobly trying to survive his terrible marriage for the sake of the children / so his crazy wife doesn’t kill herself blah blah.

So, you get stuff like this:

My wife doesn’t love me any more
My wife is cold towards me
My wife is spiteful and cruel
My wife is crazy
My wife doesn’t care and has let herself go
My wife doesn’t understood me
My wife takes me for granted
My wife treats me like I’m just a cash machine
My marriage is dead
We got together/ married too young
I’ve been unhappy for years
We live like brother and sister
We don’t sleep in the same bed/ room
My wife hates sex
We never/ hardly ever have sex
We’re in the process of getting divorced
We’re separated

This is where you come in:

I’ve never met anyone like you
I can’t remember the time I felt this happy
I’ve never felt this way about/ loved anybody like this before
You’re amazing, this is the best sex I’ve ever had
I love you
You’re the most beautiful woman I’ve ever met
Why didn’t I meet you before I met her
Why didn’t I meet you 10/20/30 years ago….
I can’t talk to her like I talk to you
You understand me way better than she does
Why doesn’t she get me like you do?
You’re the only thing in my life that brings me happiness
You’re all I have to look forward to
You are so funny, I can’t remember when I laughed this much
You’re my soulmate, I can’t believe how good we are together
I wish I didn’t have to go home
I know it’s not fair to ask you to wait for me
I can’t leave her yet because……..
You know I don’t love her, I’m only there for the children

One day we’ll be together……
I would never, ever lie to you….

And many, many more.

The problem is, any of it could actually be argued to be true. That’s what keeps OW hanging on, because they can’t know for sure if it’s the just the script or if they mean it.
If they fall for the MM, then it’s worse. Now the OW wants and needs to believe it. If he’s lying, then she’s been very foolish and is about to get badly hurt. They want to think that they are going to be one of the very few OW who end up with their married man. Statistics say that’s a tiny percentage but a bit like buying a lottery ticket, this time you might get lucky…. so you hang on. Sometimes for years.
If it’s true and a man wants to leave his wife, he will, but if not, he won’t and if she finds out he’ll go back home (if she lets him) and the OW will be left high and dry.
If his wife throws him out you will be the first (and probably only ) place he has to go. In that case (if he would rather not tell you he didn’t choose to leave, he got thrown out)
he will tell you he voluntarily left her and it’s a relief to be free etc etc. but as an OW you will never really know if he jumped or was pushed and you are actually second choice, not first. In that case, if his wife changes her mind, he’ll leave you and go home.
I think the most dangerous line you get spun is “I would never lie to you.”
Married men who cheat are not being nice men. They lie. A lot. They lie every day to their wife and children and friends. They lie to themselves to avoid guilt. They lie to OW.
If you are in pain and confused and hear yourself trying to justify what the MM has said, or doing mental gymnastics to be able to believe him, or wonder if his latest excuse not to see you is true or his latest reason for not leaving his wife is true, don’t replay all the lovely stuff he said, or read all the messages and emails, or replay that song or poem, or list all the gifts he bought to try to prove he must have meant it: run for the hills. He’ll run there with you if he was ever going to. They usually don’t.
If it looks like a duck….

Likeoohlaalaala · 06/11/2024 19:33

@HarryPottersSecretSister I think I know how you're feeling, it's just awful isn't it.

I think they generally tell us anything we want to hear without ever actually committing to anything, as sunset says they give the spiel about their marriage being unhappy/separate lives/more like housemates, but unfortunately we genuinely have no idea do we? They could tell us anything!

I'm 95% sure "my" guy is separated/separating with his wife as people we both know have told (gossiped to) me that they have. It's fairly common knowledge to some apparently, but despite this I still got the slow fade, "I'm not sure what I want" spiel, etc.

I'm still trying to stay away though I gave in today and asked him if he wanted to meet for a coffee, we just chatted about work and general stuff, but I'm just being daft

HarryPottersSecretSister · 07/11/2024 11:56

@SunsetSkylane @Frith2013 @Thewookiemustgo and @Likeoohlaalaala thank you all so much for the warm welcome.

it's not a club I'm delighted to belong to admittedly but I am so relieved to find people who understand.

@SunsetSkylane Yes. a bad relationship. Allegedly here too. But I suppose it is a good opener..

@Frith2013 Do you feel you have made any progress with getting anywhere out of your mess? I am sorry you feel the same as I do.

@Thewookiemustgo I really needed to hear all of this today. I have to spend an entire day with him (work) and I am trying hard to be 'good'. I appreciate the amount of thought and time you have clearly put into that response for me - thank you so much. It's been really helpful. Rings through so so much its scary.

Want to write more but will respond properly later when I have more time. Hope everyone is doing well today

Frith2013 · 07/11/2024 12:26

@HarryPottersSecretSister I have a double mess in that my boyfriend (who lived with me) moved out in March. The man in this thread (referred to as Prat Ex, to differentiate him from Proper Ex) targeted me immediately, inviting me to dinner within days. He was a good friend to Proper Ex so knew he had moved out... He was also a good friend to me for years. Or so I thought.

Prat Ex can absolutely talk the talk. Everyone adores him. We are in the same hobby/social group.

Interestingly, no one knew he is married. Well, I know now, but I didn't then. Still no one else in our friendship group knows because he keeps her a secret. So that's nice. 🙄

Anyway, Prat Ex got a bit nasty very quickly. Chopping and changing arrangements, blocking and unblocking me from social media (for no reason), excuses that were so stupid that I felt embarrassed on his behalf.

After 4 months, I sent him a 2 line text explaining why I would not see him again. I blocked him on everything. This has completely ballsed up my social life. I went to one social event, thinking it would be busy enough to avoid him (and nearly 4 months had passed) and he was an absolute pain, sitting on the arm of my chair, asking about my children so it seemed harmless and I would feel obliged to reply.

Eurgh.

lovelymango · 07/11/2024 18:32

Well guess what. He started messaging me 😆

Likeoohlaalaala · 07/11/2024 18:58

lovelymango · 07/11/2024 18:32

Well guess what. He started messaging me 😆

Are you messaging back? It's so hard not to isn't it, it's like a drug

HarryPottersSecretSister · 07/11/2024 19:17

@Frith2013 so so nuts that he keeps being married a secret
or a red flag if I ever heard one

He sounds extremely charming. They’re the dangerous ones. I already hate him on your behalf.
well done on the blocking etc: it is hard

HarryPottersSecretSister · 07/11/2024 19:19

@Likeoohlaalaala I’ve read it’s the exact same reward system in the brain activated from contact in an affair type situation to getting a fix!

Likeoohlaalaala · 07/11/2024 19:25

HarryPottersSecretSister · 07/11/2024 19:19

@Likeoohlaalaala I’ve read it’s the exact same reward system in the brain activated from contact in an affair type situation to getting a fix!

Mad isn't it, and probably just as bad for us too.

How are you doing today? Did I read you work with "your" guy?

HarryPottersSecretSister · 07/11/2024 19:26

Day spent with him here (work)
I handed him something and he tried to rub my hand with his finger. I pulled away immediately. He commented it was like he’d just burned me.

He said he’d love to kiss me. I cut the conversation with a ‘NO’ and got up and went to the toilet.

He asked me for a hug when we were alone and he was leaving. I told him no.

Made a few comments about me being ‘gorgeous ‘, that my boots were too sexy etc
I ignored them all like I didn’t hear him

We a text conversation after that I ended after a few exchanges (would usually chat until going to sleep) where I told him he needed to stop all of those things in future. Told me he would try but it was hard to just stop loving someone. I was very firm.
Theres a lot more to this situation but I don’t have the energy to spill it all out now

That was hard but I feel good about it and myself.

Who thinks I deserve a Knighthood/ award/ Blue Peter badge?

Just me then? Ok

HarryPottersSecretSister · 07/11/2024 19:28

@Likeoohlaalaala I do but only in person maybe one day a week. So that’s it until next week now.

Other days it’s teams calls and emails etc. and texting literally 24/7

2 years

Likeoohlaalaala · 07/11/2024 19:32

HarryPottersSecretSister · 07/11/2024 19:28

@Likeoohlaalaala I do but only in person maybe one day a week. So that’s it until next week now.

Other days it’s teams calls and emails etc. and texting literally 24/7

2 years

Very similar to me, work together but currently different sites so just phone calls and teams mostly, 18 months

Well done for standing firm, he sounds hard work and as if he's pushing some boundaries too. Keep standing firm

lovelymango · 07/11/2024 19:32

Likeoohlaalaala · 07/11/2024 18:58

Are you messaging back? It's so hard not to isn't it, it's like a drug

I got pulled in yes but I’m not stupid. He’s being very obvious. He said he missed me. I said is your dick dry and he said I was harsh so of course now I’m apologising but he is bloody obvious. I also mentioned the slut comment and he said he apologised for me misunderstanding 🤦🏻‍♀️

Likeoohlaalaala · 07/11/2024 19:34

He did not!!! The cheeky twat! If that doesn't make you want to just hit that block button I don't know what will

lovelymango · 07/11/2024 19:37

So you don’t think I was harsh for saying is your dick dry?

Frith2013 · 07/11/2024 19:48

Well, of course we have/used to have feelings for "ours". However, if you read the messages back as though you have never met them - aren't they a bunch of creepy, sleazy arseholes! Who chases round after someone at work, saying all that weird stuff??

I feel almost relieved now that mine couldn't be bothered to feign much interest in me at all. I never received a compliment or cheeky comment!