Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

Gut health, not guy health!

That sounds so lovely!! Are you able to just move his boxes yourself? Put them in one of his rooms?

I used to have headaches daily and was on meds for it. Then someone recommended Botox and it’s been life changing!!

Today DP has taken issue with me using the word “continually”. I said he continually criticises me for dictating and controlling things. And I don’t think this is nice. It’s upsetting. I don’t think I do that. In this particular instance he was trying to say the way we have done a certain annual event is because I have dictated that’s how it’s going to be. The reality is that we have agreed to do things that way through several discussions on the subject, have never disagreed about it, and from the fact we have similar tastes. I like things done the way we do them, but he has given me no indication (in fact quite the opposite!) that he feels anything other than the same as me. And yet we sat there this afternoon with him basically telling me he doesn’t want to do things like that, never has, and we only do it that way because I have dictated it! I was taken aback and a bit upset. And he said it three or four times. He often announces that I’m controlling and dictating what happens on matters where we have never disagreed! Despite being quite controlling himself, he likes to accuse everyone else (me, his ex, my ex, his siblings, my relatives…) of being controlling and dictatorial all the time. It’s very pot-kettle-black and often comes completely out of the blue. Anyway today I said I find it upsetting that he would say that and this continual assertion that I am dictatorial is a really horrible thing to say to me.

So what does he do?

Takes issue with the word “continual”!!!! He says this is factually incorrect as how can he be CONTINUALLY asserting this?! I said because you say it all the time. He then replies again how can he possibly say it ALL THE TIME?! And how I am deliberately misrepresenting him. Again!!! And he got annoyed and said I was using words like “continual” in a deliberate attempt to exaggerate and misrepresent. I said but it’s a figure of speech! Of course I’m not saying that you LITERALLY continually say the same thing over and over for 24 hours ongoing! Obviously that isn’t what I meant! And he replies “so why say it then?? Why use that word other than to deliberately misrepresent me??!”

So instead of having a conversation like two adults where I can say this thing you keep coming out with….its really upsetting and seems to come from nowhere. He instead derailed that by having a conversation on the merits of the word “continual” and how it was totally unacceptable of me to use that word. How angry he was that I should suggest it. Somehow then, despite blindsiding me with accusations out of blue about something we have never once disagreed about and me wanting to understand why he said that, instead he is the victim and expects an apology and has now stormed off to the pub.

Impossible man!!!!

@BustyLaRoux it definitely sounds like a need to control the narrative and this leading to rewriting what was originally said and agreed in order to fit how he feels about it later or at that particular point in time. Again, not done necessarily to exercise control, more as a 'survival instinct, must be in control or everything fall apart panic thing' (if that makes any sense at all) yet the result is controlling and upsetting. You have every right to be upset because it is hurtful, regardless of whether it was done with intent or not.

They talk about narcissists using 'word-salad' as a means to control and I sometimes used to think that it was what my H was doing in simar situations when in fact it was more of a desperate need to change the narrative to fit his view as he couldn't cope.

Storming off just adds another layer of hurt x

Ha yea, word salad is definitely a thing too. We go round and round. He derails any attempt to have a structured conversation. Says something then seems to contradict himself, always arguing I’m the one frustrating him….. I’d LOVE to see a barrister try and get a straight answer out of him somehow.

The thing is, he is, or appears to be, laid back about many things (but very controlling about others!). So this event I’m talking about. Has never said anything other than he likes it this way, that we are on the same page.

Our annual holidays: we do have different tastes, I recognise that, but he leaves me to book all our holidays (if left to him we would never go!) and I make a short list and we pick somewhere together. Apart from one year when we went somewhere very much more my preference (which he absolutely loved), I always try to pick things which are a bit of both of what he want. We often move halfway through to accommodate us both. He has never said anything other than what great places we’ve been to. No sign he wants something different. Then all of a sudden this year he said I dictated all our holidays and how for once it would be nice if he got what he wanted!!. Again, out of the blue. Of course I booked something that was very much more his thing than mine this year, having not been made aware this was an issue. But this is what he does. Appears to be very happy for years. Agrees at the time. Expresses enjoyment. Then all of a sudden will say he’s been dictated to and controlled and OPPRESSED. But it isn’t true!

It’s one thing to rewrite the narrative (he does it all the time and I have come to expect it),but so typical to derail a conversation by seizing on a silly word/phrase/normal expression and make the conversation all about this word. How wrong it was of me to use it. How I need to apologise for saying it.

Ridiculous! No one else would end up having a stupid argument about whether it was insulting to use the word “continual” (what about the word “dictate”? Surely that’s more insulting!) But he is always the victim. Never mind he has blindsided and insulted me. For some reason he is angry and thinks he is owed an apology!

Can't decide if it's just that in that moment they really feel like they have been and are being oppressed and are acting like a cornered animal. Or if it's meant to upset and control. Probably the former but that still doesn't make it right. Particularly when then stomping off, getting angry AND then think they're owed an apology @BustyLaRoux so tiring 😫

Thanks. It really is. I think you’re right. Stupidly we were discussing vegetables at Xmas! We’ve always done quite a good selection. He is the main chef so it is more work for him. (I do plenty of wrapping and clearing up and soux cheffing so I’m not exactly sat on my backside). He has always said oh yes we MUST have cauliflower cheese, and other agreements like that. I make the cabbage. It’s not all him. We’ve always said we make a great team when it comes to Xmas. How lovely the dinner is. How much the kids love it. Then today he suddenly said all these vegetables weren’t appreciated by anyone else other than me and we only have them because I dictate it. Just completely random and out of the blue! He’s never said anything of the sort before. I admit I was quite hurt, but he didn’t say it to be hurtful. I know that. He just comes out with these random statements as if they’re fact. He uses words which aren’t very nice (“dictate, oppressed”, etc) and will say them over and over again. I was trying to tell him how hurtful all this was.

I guess he felt criticised as he gets defensive whenever he upsets me. Instead of saying sorry he will find a way to play the victim and get angry. In this instance it was to seize on a turn of phrase and take exception to it. It’s obviously just an expression. I think he knows that really, but he used it to get the hump and say I meant it literally. It’s just a defence mechanism as he had upset me. And better to turn the tables than say sorry!!

So he stormed off to the pub. I think he’s calmed himself down now. He came home about half a hour ago. But he can spend the rest of the evening by himself. I made sure I was in bed by the time he got home. If he wants to be asshole he can sit and eat alone. Pah! I’m over it now. I used to stew on things for days and days. Wonder why he reacted this way, how unfair it was….now I know him too well. I know why he does what he does. It’s like you say, he felt cornered because he had upset me and he needed to find a way to make me in the wrong.

Thanks for replying to me this evening @ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore 🥰 I’m glad you’re carving out a nice new fresh space for yourself. Even better if you can get rid of a few more boxes!!!

We had an argument yesterday about beetroot if it makes you feel any better?

Super surreal.

Very very long story short, I was at fault for being wasteful with food. For some reason I am solely responsible for all food waste in the house, either of us could have cooked or eaten the beetroot. But it shouldn't be up to DW so it is therefore me at fault.

😂😂 I can relate! For many years it was my job to clear up the kitchen because it was my mess: mess caused by my cooking everyone's dinner!

So@BustyLaRoux weve been trying to dig into this lately. Why we cannot collaborate on a task. We came to the point that if I have strong feelings about the way a task should be done, he feels dominated.

He feels his choices are either to match the level of strong feelings that I have (which he feels uncomfortable doing) or to simply acquiescence (which he views as doing something ‘for me’). He doesn’t think there could be a ‘better’ way of doing anything, so even if I suggest the easiest and most efficient way to do something, he can’t see that I’m prioritising speed or ease, it’s basically me controlling him.

Tasks for him are something to complete alone except if it absolutely cannot be avoided.

I must say, although this all represents progress in communication, it was one of my most heart-breaking realisations. I love to collaborate and do it all the time in work. Other people think I’m good at it. I’m never dominating and it has so hurt my feelings to be framed in that way.

I’m also just astonished at the juvenile nature of all this. If I have a good idea for how to go about painting the ceiling it’s viewed in this terrible way. Whereas what I’m actually expecting is thanks for coming up with a good plan!

Once again we just couldn’t be further apart and a whole range of human connection seems off limits. No wonder there is a gulf between us.

Oh yes any food wastage is also someone else’s fault. Of course it is. In fact he has many a time told me (lied!) about how in his previous relationship he cooked everything and the fridge was beautifully ordered and clean with labelled Tupperware boxes of all these nice meals and accompaniments he had rustled up
for all the family and how everything was eaten and nothing ever wasted. Not ever. Never was a single item thrown out and it was all thanks to him and marvellous organisation and orderly fridge management.

Compare this to today: our fridge is RAMMED full of jars of this and that, Tupperware boxes of pasta which have been there well over a week, a singular pallid sausage, something unidentifiable covered in fur….. there is so much stuff in there you can’t get to anything. Nothing is labelled! Everything is boxed up and saved. Nothing ever thrown away until it is growing life forms. It’s disgusting. I can’t buy more than a couple of days of food as there isn’t enough room in the fridge to put it! It’s never cleaned out (unless by me).

In his imaginary narrative though he is someone who cooks and labels and organises and cleans and rotates and manages the fridge BEAUTIFULLY! The only reason it is a disgusting hub of disorganisation now is because he has a different partner. Me! So he basically says this is all my fault as he hasn’t changed, only his partner has changed so it must therefore be me!!! I don’t cook though. I rarely put anything in Tupperware. I eat simple food. I finish it. I wash up. The problem is not me. The problem is he has a version of himself which is cemented in his brain. It’s an invented person of who he would LIKE TO BE, not who he is or was. But he’s convinced his version is 100% correct and rigidly maintains that narrative without any possibility of it being wrong. And as nothing can be his fault, the way he manages the fridge now doesn’t fit with his version of who he is, so it must be me. The truth is that he likely did exactly the same to his old fridge. I bet if I spoke to his ex she would say the fridge was FULL of boxes of random rotten this and that and how he never cleaned it and it was impossible to find anything….

Are you married to my ex husband by any chance!??

I relate to this so much! We have two choices: do things my way (and then he will say he is being bullied and oppressed!) or we do it his way and he is happy. If I try to explain why I think my way is a good option, like people do in normal adult discussion, he just shuts me down and says I am oppressing him. But he often does things in this overly cautious unnecessarily slow and meticulous way. It doesn’t make sense and is like adding lots of steps in which don’t really
bring about a good outcome. So it’s either do things in this painful way at his insistence or he gets the hump and says he is being oppressed. We can’t discuss it because that is me oppressing him!

Or he doesn’t have strong feelings about something and we appear to be on the same page, only years later for him to suddenly randomly complain he has been dictated to all these years, when there has been zero conversation suggesting anything of the sort!

@FreshLaundry its heartbreaking to be told you’re dominating when you’re trying to be collaborative. The fact other people recognise you for those skills means you’re not the problem but it is still upsetting that he frames it like that. I don’t have the solution. I feel either dictated to or I am accused of being a dictator. Everything is so black and white. It’s this or it’s this. There isn’t an in between. There is no grey. He can’t see grey. Only right (him) and wrong (me).

@FreshLaundry sounds like what’s happening here too.
dh got himself all worked up because we needed to take decision together (furniture for the kitchen). He actually pushed for me to decide. Which I refused because we have tastes that are so different.

Ive given up now.

But the very big issue with everyone does their things is that we are living together and some times, it affects the other person….
And if dh has to change his plans, even a little because of my needs, then …. I’m clearly the awful one.
im also awful if I ask if he wondered about how his decision would affect me….

F

@BustyLaRoux I just wanted to say that ‘singular pallid sausage’ might have to be my new MN username.

Impossibility of collaboration is such a thing here too.

I remember one time many years ago when I foolishly thought it might be fun to carve a pumpkin together for Halloween, and it all blew up because I suggested we might not need to get out the measuring tape to check that the proposed placement of eyes and mouth were perfectly symmetrical. He got very frustrated because there is a way of doing things and you couldn’t just carve a pumpkin without a plan. So now he does all the family jack o’ lanterns. (It is an endlessly drawn-out, joyless, and stressful affair involving multiple trips to pumpkin shops to find just the right gourds, and DH taking himself off for hours to work out various designs and then spending an entire day creating his masterpieces with specialist tools and drills).

All the other houses in the street have these sweet joyous pumpkins that the children were allowed to carve themselves. Whereas ours look like they’ve been designed and executed by Tim Burton in the throes of a nervous breakdown.

Ah yes, the joyless meticulous execution of a task. I am very familiar with this. The frustration (read: anger) when you suggest doing something differently. There is no ‘different way’, there is only the right way and all the other wrong ways.

Can I ask some of you who are struggling with this - do your DHs accept that their ND makes them do some of thes things and that it could be a problem? If they do, does that make it easier? if they don't, does it make it harder?

I think for me, it's the realisation from both of us that he probably is ND, and the huge effort he is putting in to manage it that makes things easier. BUT... I concede that our issues are all practical, I have never had a single issue with how he supports me emotionally. If anything, I am the less emotional one and less able to provide that support or rather, it doesn't always come totally naturally to me.

When we moved into our house all of the kids have their own rooms. We had lived in a rented furnished house before so we had to buy a fair bit of furniture for this house.

My approach was to look at what was needed (a chest of drawers for each child for example) and then go and buy one from ikea that went with their other bits of furniture. Maybe get one of those Kallax things for books and toys while there. And then once built me and the kids would have great fun trying out different room arrangements until we found the best fit. Get a few extra bits (fairy lights, cushions, etc) and voila! Nice rooms which they love and which have everything they need.

DP’s approach for his children was to place the bed in the optimum position for the room and then measure the EXACT size that the drawers would need to be to go in the spot he had deigned the optimum place for the drawers. And do the same for the shelves. And a desk. Everything measured for the space it was going to go in. Even had his son draw up a diagram of the room with the correct dimensions to see the correct size and position for each item of furniture. Then he set about researching where to buy each piece of furniture to ensure it was the exact correct size. He had to go through dozens of websites and Facebook pages to find pieces which were the exact dimensions he needed. Consequently nothing matches. The kids rooms are a motley collection of random pieces. Old second hand bits (not nice upcycled pieces, but any old tat that was bought because it had the right dimensions). The rooms looks jumbled and sad. The desks he bought are far too big and dominate the rooms. I feel for his kids. My kids love their rooms. I would happily have done his kids’ rooms for them too. I really enjoy that kind of thing. It would have been a fun task for me and all the kids. But no, he insisted his approach was the only sensible way to go about it. My way was wrong. How would I know it would all fit together? (I can move stuff about until it does!) No. Mr. Singular Pallid Sausage had to go about it with his meticulous practical precision head on and now his kids rooms look overcrowded and dark with shit mismatching furniture.

I’m not trying to gloat. (Or maybe I am a little bit! lol) A bit like the pumpkin. It has to be executed in a precise and practical meticulous way, drawn out with several unnecessary extra steps, but doing so takes all the joy out of it.

Yes he does accept it. He doesn’t necessarily accept that it’s a problem though.

Sometimes he does. He’ll laugh and say he knows he is being autistic about something. Usually something small and silly like refusing to get rid of stuff.

The way he shuts me down if we don’t agree about something bigger though - he doesn’t see that as a problem. He’s in the right and I’m wrong so he is right to shut me down. There is no discussion. He just dismisses me. No. He doesn’t see that as part of his ND or accept there could be anything problematic about that.

Other less important things he can laugh about. It’s a mix.

@BustyLaRoux I shouldn't laugh, but I am slightly as we have a version of this with DH. I actually love that he's willing to put the effort in to these things, but he cannot get his head around getting RID of anything. So, he will insist we have to keep x or y, and then tie himself into knots trying to fit it in and then, obviously, there are only very limited options for additional furniture. Drives me mad. Poor DS has a completely un-user friendly room because DH really felt that the random low cupboards he didn't need anymore would work there. So now DS has his original shitty cupboards which he mostly can't use (which is why he needed an alternative option), and some small cubpoards that he also can't use... mostly he just keeps his stuff in a laundry tub next to his bed.

On plus side, DH has just spent 6 months re-doing DD's room and he's feeling so guilty that she's got all this great new space, that he's agreed we need tog et rid of the ridiculous cupboard in DS room and buy something that actually works there! He has also finally got around to putting up some shelves in DS' room. Admittedly, he spent four hours on it and only got one up... but it's been lifechanging for DS already so we're taking the win!

That does all sound rather familiar lol!!!!

Very familiar here too