Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

It’s sad how much I read of all the self doubting behaviours we all have. All we seem to do all day long is question how we behave, worry how it will be perceived. It’s got to have an extremely detrimental effect on our identities. I know personally I do it all
the time, its a learned behaviour from
childhood that I need to be aware of how I speak and how I’m perceived as people around me have childish emotional development.

I have been doing something lately that to me feels selfish but Im starting to just do what I want more. I’ve stopped worrying about how it will be perceived, I’m trying to discover who I am below all this pleasing behaviour. I’ve learned that pleasing behaviour is stemmed from childhood and it’s stopped my identity from forming properly. I’m thinking people will
probably stop liking me. My partner is a terrible people pleaser, I don’t know if that’s an ASD thing. He is like a wet lettuce at times.

So drainage and I find I sometimes stop myself from showing H things or sharing for similar reasons. Often I'm too enthusiastic to remember not to and then he 'bites me' with some remarks that sort of removes the joy I had felt initially!

No 3 on your list does sound like a very autistic thing to do though x

It sounds like a good thing, part of the stopping people pleasing is to find your own identity. Easier said than done but I am working on too. Might look like a midlife crisis to the outer world!

Yes certain family members think I’m unhinged lol! But I remember myself being loud and think later do first, a much bigger person then I have become. Good luck to you!

Thank you, and to you too! I was definitely louder too!

I’ve been dithering again and again around my marriage.
And my conclusion is that I wont get clarity until I get clarity about myself.
So I’m concentrating on myself, getting counselling and finding who I am underneath my own childhood trauma (if you’d asked me a few years ago, I’d have been horrified at the idea im carrying some childhood trauma 😂)

It’s the freezing and fawning behaviour when someone is exploding. Desperately wanting to be seen. Affection.

I had an interesting experience a few days ago.

dh exploded when I started a general conversation on some house maintenance. And how did I not know it wasn’t right time to do that, that he was stressed out because of <insert punctual finances issues>.
(for context, we had an unexpected bill but dh decided to do things his way, refused to talk about other possibilities other than his choice. Didn’t tell me about any of it and then exploded because ‘didn’t I realise I’m completely out of line to even talk about spending money at some point in the future’. The usual).

So I tried the ‘non violent communication’, told him him how I felt (sad and I was his emotional punching bag). Explained what my aim was with the conversation (what Gottman calls a ‘bid for connexion’) .
Cue for a shocked look and a desperate attempts since then to smile, talk to me, ask me how I am.

And I feel annoyed and desperately sad at that. Because if he can do that now, why couldn’t he before?

@SpecialMangeTout it sounds like the right approach, to work on oneself and understanding the trauma etc that lies beneath which causes us to end up in these situations. In a way it helps with guilt too, for me at least, in knowing that it was inevitable that I'd endvup here, with all that trauma in my rucksack!

I can relate to that sad feeling of seeing H now trying to smile, take an interest, give compliments eyc. When he couldn't before? Does it last though? Or do they inevitably resume the previous behaviours.

Need to google that Gottman bit now... sounds like you have a good therapist.

Gottman is a ‘specialist’ of relationship. The type that can tell with 80% certainty if a couple will last watching a 5 mins interaction.
He is written a few books. Really worth reading (and yes I dont think any of our marriage will pass his test)

And no, I do t think it will last.
And I don’t think I have in me to ‘remind him’ he needs to make an effort. I’m not his mum.
(I also acknowledge that by saying nothing on the ground its too much effort to mention, deal with the fall out etc… I’m giving him the impression it’s ok)

I’m guessing he couldn’t do that before because his brain is just not wired to consider your needs. It’s just how it is for whatever reason it’s just not part of the calculation. It’s probably not intentional. The problem lies in the fact we take their limitations as our own instead of laying it at their feet. Having emotions, having arguments and seeking connections is how humans grow. It’s literally how life is lived for NT people.

'Off to check out books by Gottman on Amazon!'

Oh I'd love for someone to have analysed me with H in the early days! Probably me overly coquette-ish and pleasant in bid to people please him and win him over. I remember listening to him talking about a specific thing about his work and me taking great interest (did I really?? it was interesting but did I overdo it?!) Something he has commented on since as being an attractive thing. He brought his dog along (my suggestion) and I remember how loving and gentle he was with her (dog) which surely was a good sign! Much more patient than with DD later on...

Gosh yes, that’s exactly it. I wanted validation that I’d bought something cool that my DS would enjoy. Maybe that’s pathetic of me….. Anyone else would instinctively know that was what the situation required and respond accordingly. But DP doesn’t have access to the unwritten social rules most of us can follow intuitively, so he does what he knows. Makes it about him. Lists. Tries to impress. And yes, it just sucks the joy out of it. Invariably I just inwardly sigh (having failed to illicit the response I needed) and walk away. Or smile indulgently and crave a normal social interaction which doesn’t involve me having to feign being impressed so as not to damage the precious ego…..

It does sound like a really cool gift though @BustyLaRoux I wouldn't have been able to not share that either! It's hardbto keep a lidbon the enthusiasm sometimes!

I get accused of attention seeking with this behaviour. It’s not fair I’m not seeking attention I’m looking for shared enthusiasm and connection. I get excited and deflated all the time also.

hard relate re: the constant deflation of excitement. It’s soul-killing after a while.

I’m going to go out on a limb though and say that before we all tear ourselves to shreds for ‘people pleasing’, some of what we’re describing - trying to intuit others’ social needs and meet them if we can - is standard pro-social human behaviour, which works pretty well when others are doing the same. It’s when others don’t reciprocate that it becomes unbalanced and we can go into overdrive trying to please the unpleaseable.

Just a friendly reminder, in case anyone’s tempted to take on disproportionate blame for their imbalanced dynamic.

Thanks @Bunnyhair I was very good at taking a disproportionate blame for the imbalanced dynamic but am working on it 😀

Still trying to figure myself out and what is actually just 'normal' social interaction and not masking or fawning. I mean, there must be a healthy balance to be found where a little bit of masking can be endured in order to be able to attend certain events etc. Although I went to a small dinner party the other weekend and it took me days to recover as couldn't sleep after, kept over-analysing conversations etc. Definitely wasn't worth it! Other times it really is, like taking DD to Comic Con for example.

Fully agree there!!
And once again I’m back to the ‘it’s not done intentionally to hurt me but because of his disability’ and I feel somehow guilty to want and need more.

See also the fact I can’t read his mind but he somehow expects me to ‘know’.

It not your fault for having needs and it’s not his fault for not being able to meet them. No blame either way. The answer is not to have no needs or ignore them!

Funny isn’t it, because what is actually wrong with seeking attention (or validation or recognition or any of those things)? Aren’t humans wired to do this. I work with children and have often heard people say “oh they’re just attention seeking!” in a dismissive way. And I’m like “well give them some attention then!”

@Rainbow03 It’s funny how those things always make sense on paper (at least to me!) but actually making decisions using that still feels insurmontable.

@BustyLaRoux nothing wrong with wanting attention and connexion.
But im pretty sure you’ve also been told that being ‘attention seeking’ was bad? And yes in my case, that my needs didn’t matter compare to others anyway….
It’s hard to push back against that.

I should add it isn’t like this for every interaction we have! But it is a pattern of behaviour I’ve noticed. I understand it. He doesn’t know the social norms. He doesn’t get that I’m trying to illicit a “oh wow, that’s cool” comment for personal validation. He wants to make a connection and he genuinely thinks listing his impressive list is the right response. I know my “aaaanyway….” comments have obviously hit a chord because he has correctly interpreted that I think he’s making the conversation about him. Again. But I don’t think he really knows what else to do. As he said himself he is just trying to show an interest. My dad is the same. They don’t get how to have the expected social exchange. So DP (who has much more awareness than my dad) is able to gauge something from my reaction. But just feels criticised and then gets in a huff. Not a major one as it turns out. He was cheerful enough this morning (I pretended not to realise he was in a huff which sometimes is the best approach!).

I am torn between feeling bad for making him feel criticised for something which isn’t his fault. And feeling resigned that normal social exchange is often not accessible to us….. but we do laugh a lot and he doesn’t seem to mind taking the piss out of him, which at least brings some light relief.

How is everyone's weekend going? Sending strong Swedish coffee to those who need it!

I've just finished painting 'my' room, didn't think I'd have the energy to do it as haven't felt able to decorate/paint in years due to contstant fatigue and aches. Somehow found this energy to shift things (there's a lot in there still! Although loads has moved into H's room) around in order to paint one wall at a time, spread over 4 days. It feels so fresh and nice! Now...what to do with the boxes of stuff that H was keeping in there? Will see if he'll accept having to put them somewhere else so I can truly claim this room?! He's been away for the night and DD so nice and peaceful here 😌 x

I’ll take the coffee!
Ive been suffering from daily headaches for weeks and have come across the idea that coffee could help (it’s on the Migraine Trust website 😳😳).
So I’ve had one cup of coffee today (I hate the stuff so dont normally have any) and today … no headache so far!

So assuming it carries on working, could you send me some my way? I’d appreciate it.

I would gladly send some your way!

Wonder what it is in coffee that helps with the headaches, can't just be the caffeine. Recently read Spoon Fed by Tim Spector (epidemiologist who is also behind Zoe Study and various guy health stuff things) and there was a whole chapter on how coffee is actually quite good for you. So must be something in it!

Hope the no headache streak continues, fingers crossed.