Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

Same here

To be fair, the result does sound quite spooky.

@TomPinch they are super spooky. To the extent that I think the neighbours are a bit frightened of us. 😬

😁😁😁

🎃😱😆

Has anyone successfully gone through couples counselling?

@CinnamonTart sadly not. And we've tried numerous times.

No. Tried once a few years back. Cost a fortune. Waste of time. Actually no, not complete waste of time. I did learn some techniques for trying to improve communication but ultimately I don’t think we were there for the same reasons. I wanted him to stop abusing me with his unpredictable angry behaviour and constant criticism and he felt that if we just communicated better then those things wouldn’t be a problem. Which really meant that he felt it was me who needed to manage my communication towards him better and then he wouldn’t react the way he did. It felt like he was trying to pass the buck or excuse his behaviour. The counsellor was trained in helping couples improve their communication. He was NOT a specialist in ND relationships (I didn’t know my DP was autistic at the time). He was not a specialist in working with couples where abuse is present. Therefore, although I did learn some stuff about improving communication, ultimately the counselling failed from my point of view.

Well, H begged me to go to Relate, I refused and went by myself. Ended up more confused in some ways. Don't think the counsellor was trained in ND (I wouldn't expect them to be) and I feel that she didn't recognise what I feel has been abusive behaviour. I suspect I was defending H so maybe didn't give an honest enough picture but did mention stuff that I thought would count as unreasonable.

The positive is maybe that it has gave me a chance to think amd talk it through and then the confidence to go back and tell H after that he would need to work on certain areas of his behaviours and pick up more of the DD care (which he has promised me to do...we shall see) whilst I get more respite and space during a 'trial period'.

If H had come with I'm not sure I would have been so open about things. Maybe individual counselling if you can afford it?

He has no empathy. I am so lonely

I’m so sorry. It can be very lonely. You just want someone to get you. To say the right words.

I'm sorry @Georgeismydog, it can be lonely. I have to make sure I spend plenty of time with friends.

Does anyone else’s DP act like a martyr all the time? Mine keeps doing things that I haven’t asked him to (making me food I don’t want, drinks I don’t want) and then acting like a martyr about it!

I have a stinking cold. I just want to make myself a cup of herbal tea. I can’t boil the kettle as he chooses to work in the kitchen and is on a teams call (but makes out like he has no choice but to work in there and again is a martyr about it. He has room in my office if he moved all his hobby stuff. He could use my desk as I am off work this week. He could sit in his son’s room in the very expensive chair he made me buy for him, which he has forgotten about and says I bought for the son. I did not. I would never spend that much on a child’s chair. He insisted HE needed a certain type. But now he never uses it. I questioned this a while back. He said he can’t sit in that room as it’s too sunny!! But it’s not sunny today or even most of the time. Or he could get a blind. But no, he sits in the bloody kitchen, gets annoyed if anyone makes a noise and acts the martyr with nowhere else he can possibly work!!!)

So I message him and ask him to let me know when he’s done on his call so I can make a herbal tea as my throat is sore. I come down a bit later and he is boiling the kettle. He’s in a huff from last night still. I said it’s fine, I can make tea. He doesn’t need to do anything for me. (I say this because later he will act the martyr who has been running around after me). He starts chopping ginger into tiny pieces and lemon. (I just want herbal tea! I don’t need this). I say the ginger is very small and will get in my mouth. I’ll just have a tea. It’s fine. He says no, it has to be small because it maximises the surface area. I resign myself to the fact I am now going to be drinking this instead of the herbal tea I wanted. I say please no honey though. He then immediately dollops a big spoon of honey in there saying I need it for my throat. I don’t bloody want it!!! I am forever eating things I don’t want so as not to be rude. I have simple taste and I don’t eat that much. I’m happy to eat the same thing night in, night out, and make it myself so there is no mess to clear up. DP uses every pan and knife and oven tray and chopping board to make food I don’t want! Then I feel like I should offer to clear up. I’d rather just be left to my own devices. He ploughs ahead with trying to do nice things for me, and I don’t want to be ungrateful, but I haven’t asked for this and even when I say no thank you, he does it anyway. And then later will act the martyr.

I realise this makes me sound very ungrateful. I just feel my needs are ignored. He prefers to decide what my needs are and then go about fulfilling them (banking all this to use later on to moan about how much he does for me). But he doesn’t know what my needs are as he doesn’t listen. He knows best.

I have just had to send him away with a plate of food I didn’t ask for. I had even said about 15 mins ago that I am not hungry. I don’t want anything. (I‘m already sat here with a mouthful of fucking ginger just to be polite!!!) I felt bad sending the food away as I’m a people pleaser and usually just eat whatever it is so as not to be ungrateful. Now I feel bad. I should be grateful. My ex husband never got me anything. It annoyed him if I was ill. If he brought me something I did ask for it was with a massive sigh like it was the hardest job in the world.

I’m just done with having to eat and drink things I don’t want knowing at some point he will martyr himself about it all. Does anyone have similar? If not food and drink being shoved on you, then other scenarios where partner knows best and does things they’ve not been asked to do (or even asked please not to do!) because they have decreed this MUST be done. And then later acting a martyr? Is this just my house? Am I being horribly ungrateful? (I feel like I am maybe)

Oh @BustyLaRoux you are not being rude. You are setting personal boundaries and he in his mode of being the all knowing one is trampling all over them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying you don't want food or drink of a certain kind. I can't imagine DH making me something if I had expressly said I didn't want it, not that he ever cooks......you are allowed to have preferences. I'd have been so ticked with the drink nonsense I'd have poured it down the sink and then boiled the kettle in the middle of his next bloody meeting, selfish arse. ND or not he is a selfish arse. I know some ND souls can't /won't learn to compromise with others, but ultimately the behaviour results in you feeling shit regardless of intent.
Oh and the being a martyr stuff, just no, it's a hideous way to behave and not something you should feel obliged to tolerate. Just state I never asked you to do that and walk away (assuming you're allowed to leave without being subjected to a ten bullet point presentation on how much of a martyr they've been). 

Thanks @Pashazade it nearly did go down the sink. But that would have been unkind and I don’t want to cause an argument. I drank it quickly (whilst extracting small pieces of ginger from my mouth) and then went and made a herbal tea instead. Felt bad enough about sending the food away. I am going to have to be more direct I think. He just doesn’t get indirect “soft” language. So if I say “no it’s fine, really, I’m happy with a herbal tea” he won’t interpret that as me saying I actually don’t want what he’s making but am trying to say so in a polite way. He will think I’m saying I’m happy with the herbal tea but even more happy to drink this concoction he’s making - as I have not expressly said I don’t want it. Though I suppose he heard me say “I don’t want any honey” and just overruled me! I suppose I am just a silly woman who can’t really know what I want after all 😉
It’s the martyring afterwards I can’t stand! Don’t do it then!!!!! I don’t care.

As you say being extremely blunt is likely your best move. Direct and to the point, leave no room for variation. It is far harsher than we are raised/conditioned to be. I think being British doesn't help either! But otherwise you'll just leave him wiggle room for his interpretation of what you said, although he may interpret your no as not meaning no to him of course!

He is following a script and he can’t/won’t change it. Just say no and ignore his huffing and puffing.

Also: kick him out of the kitchen. Stop being uncomfortable in order to prevent him from being uncomfortable. Draw up a chart that includes rooms/ time of the day and just lay claim to them. Put C for comfortable and U for Uncomfortable and make sure its equal.

It’s a great suggestion but I think would be the end for us. He’s never going to be told what to do in that way. It would be WW3. And for all the reasons known to me and some of you on here, I have elected to stay in this relationship and try my best to navigate it with as much harmony as I can, but without losing myself. I do love him and we have been getting along quite well these last few weeks. The usual niggles, but no more than any married couple. Less probably. Peace and harmony are very important to me. I used to think being heard and standing my ground were the most impotent values to me. And perhaps they were when I was younger. But that just made me angry. And I don’t like being angry. I’d rather have a rant. And then think about a workable solution. Like with the food and drink, I will have to politely stand my ground and use more direct language I think. He is trying to be nice (whilst simultaneously fulfilling a need to be the person he identifies as. A giver. A carer. Someone who goes over and above for others. That’s who he likes to be. And so he performs that role. But I can’t deny it is also to try and be nice.

The kitchen thing is very annoying. Especially with the added dose of martyrdom about having nowhere else to work. It’s not true!! (And the £150 I spent on that bloody office chair really irks me!) I will have to try and pre empt his meltdown when the children are home for the holidays by taking time off so he can work uninterrupted in my office perhaps. I would rather find a non confrontational solution than a confrontational one. I am far too nice. I know. Though DP would tell you I am difficult and controlling no doubt…..

You know, dh has been working in the living room since Covid.
And for 4 years, I’ve been extremely careful about not making noise etc….
Ive pointed out that him being there was hard work for me - couldn’t put music on etc..,, but no change. And no I couldn’t tell him where to go and work.

Then one day, the tel rung. Spam call but the caller did something stupid agd I burst out laughing. It was seriously involuntary but dh was in a meeting and other people heard me.
Well THAT was enough for him to think it would be better for him to move.

I think that what works best with dh is what worked best with dcs as children. Natural consequences.
So whatever will basically inconvenience him but not something you have done iyswim.

Can I ask some of you who are struggling with this - do your DHs accept that their ND makes them do some of thes things and that it could be a problem?

@Vuurhoutjies No, he has no insight into any of his behaviours being due to him being ND. He is right and great and good and my existence is entirely centred on trying to make him unhappy, its all I live for, apparently. 🙄 It would make things so much easier if he could recognise his own autism and its impacts ( he is diagnosed).

He has no empathy. I am so lonely Oh @Georgeismydog the pain behind these two short sentences. This must be the most common comment I see on support sites from spouses with ASD husbands, 'I am so lonely.' Its a special kind of loneliness in these relationships, because you don't really exist to them as your own person, and you never can, and they aren't even aware that they don't see you or know you.

Yep, same with my H. He only takes action when his discomfort levels have been elevated. Never takes action because of how anything is negatively impacting me.

Which makes sense if he doesn’t have any theory of mind and can’t grasp that something can be an issue for you if it’s not an issue for him.
Plus ofc the old PDA side of things….

I am so exhausted and feel like I don’t know which way to turn; I don’t feel like I can do this much longer, though. DH is undiagnosed but since DC (5+9) has exhibited increasingly ND traits. I’ve never been sure whether it’s that I just didn’t notice it before (or unintentionally had the time to compensate) or that the unpredictability that comes with two children means he can’t cope with it in the same way.

When he’s on form, he’s amazing. This sociable, happy, proactive person and an amazing dad. But then it’s like he runs out of steam and just morphs Jekyll and Hyde style into this intransigent, rigid mindset and everything becomes about the impact on him. We’re away for HT in a European city (all planned by me, we’d never go anywhere if it was left to him). He knows everything that’s been booked, where we’re going etc but doesn’t seem to use any initiative around the small things that I’ll just ‘do’ e.g. where’s good to eat, how to get to landmarks. It’s almost like he expects to know everything already, despite having done zero prep/research or whatever you want to call it.

Anyway - yesterday we went to a well known tourist spot. I suggested we take a family photo but he didn’t want to be in it. Disappointing but fine - except he then stood there watching me struggle to take a selfie. I pointed out after that he could have offered to do it and he (correctly) said I could have asked but that’d the point. I’m so utterly fed up of having to ask for even the smallest things. I go out of my way to compensate for his anxiety around unpredictable scenarios - so ‘fixing’ something before he’s even aware it happened (including one hilarious incident which left me plugging a hole in a leaking oil tank in my PJs at 6am). DD5 just came into our room crying as she’d lost her teddy. Given we’re somewhere unfamiliar, I got up to help her find it (fallen down the side of the bed) whilst he has a go at her for waking him up. So now I’m fully awake because of his tirade. I would just love for him to proactively put someone else’s needs first.

Aware I’m rambling and straying into TLDR territory! Anyway, he’s lately mentioned he thinks he might be autistic and wants to get an assessment. I don’t disagree but he’s become fixated on the assessment itself like it’s some silver bullet. I may be wrong but I’m not sure what having a diagnosis will change? He says it will give him access to ‘support’ (but hasn’t elaborated more when I’ve asked what that means) but I guess in my mind it seems more sensible to spend £2k on that support in the first place. What’s clear is something has to change. I’m scared of what that means though - i can only see either him having to adapt (which he doesn’t have the energy for) or me having to accept significant compromises in our relationship. Even if we meet in the middle, I feel like my self esteem is being constantly eroded. I thrive on meaningful human connection and get very little of it at home. Being completely blunt - I wouldn’t have married the man he is today. And that’s devastating to accept. Any advice and experience welcome.

I don’t have any advice. Other than a diagnosis isn’t the silver bullet. Just as you suspect. I’m not sure what “support” he thinks he will get? Or whether he knows what would even be helpful. My DP doesn’t have a diagnosis and nor does he need one really. We know he is autistic. He accepts that. He doesn’t see how his behaviours, which are all he has ever done and all he knows, are autistic, although he is starting to. But even if he does see that a behaviour is likely linked to being autistic, he doesn’t always see what the problem is.

I think some people with a diagnosis can tend to hold it aloft like a shield and use it to say their behaviour isn’t their fault. It’s their disability and the partner / husband / wife needs to be MORE understanding and accepting and make MORE accommodations. Likely the partner/ spouse is a breaking point anyway so this is not helpful at all!

It’s difficult because a lot of autistic people are very sensitive to being criticised and will react with defensiveness to any perceived criticism, so when a partner says they are struggling with an aspect of their behaviour linked to autism, there is a tendency to receive that as criticism and defend against it (“well YOU do x…” or “I can’t help it, you know I’m autistic. What about my opinion/needs, etc?”). Unless your DH is talking about accommodations being made at work, say, then I am not sure what support he thinks he needs or will get through pursuing a diagnosis. In some cases it can make matters worse. But in some cases better. And in a lot of cases it doesn’t make much of a difference.

I’m sorry to hear he got annoyed with your 5 yo DD for losing her teddy and waking him up. That’s really sad 🫂 . My Autistic dad is exactly like this. He genuinely doesn’t think other people should have needs. He seems almost surprised that other people haven’t immediately thought about HIS needs and prioritised those. He can be quite horrible to people if they haven’t realised what he needs or they have different needs. That’s life though. Managing conflicting needs. That’s what we are all doing most of the time!! And yet this idea of compromise and awareness of others is alien to him.

DP isn’t quite as bad as that but he doesn’t consider or listen to my needs a lot of the time and becomes angry when I say he isn’t being reasonable. Again this is seen as criticism and he reacts with angry defensiveness. I just want him to listen and say “oh right, sorry I didn’t realise. No, that seems fine. I’ll just do x instead” but invariably he will take the position that I’m criticising him and will give me a sarcastic response, deflect blame onto me for something else, or go quiet and sulk for hours.

I won’t lie, it’s really hard. Like you DP wasn’t like this when we got together. He was happy and gregarious. Sociable and didn’t take himself too seriously. He can still be like that. Usually in a social situation with other people. He performs, but at home he is often moody and volatile. Eggshells is a word both I and his previous partner have used. I wouldn’t choose DP today if I knew what he was really like. He is a very difficult man to be with. I am doing my best to avoid conflict and not lose sight of who I am. This forum is an amazing place for support. Sometimes it’s just nice to be seen. I hope the rest of your trip is improved. Holidays can be real stress points which can be so disappointing when you’ve invested so much. Xx

@TwinklyTornadoBear

My H was diagnosed autistic a couple of years ago. It didn’t help us as he has never connected his behaviour which has damaged our family ( and me) to his autism, or even to the negative impacts it has on us or me.

There is support from our autism services though, and we are now back in that system. There is support in groups and I think individually too for him. As well as support through groups and, I think, individually for me, which is aimed at helping ‘carers’ understand autism.

Personally, I doubt this will help as there is no sign H is open to considering his behaviour is causing problems. He is very attached to the idea that it’s all my fault because I am horrible. But if you have a H who is more open, it might help, but don’t expect a miracle or to suddenly have an empathetic caring guy. At best, I think, you will have someone who has learnt by rote better responses in certain situations. I personally would take that ( not that I will get it), but that might not be enough for you.

I have had my assessment as a carer, and it was gratifying as the assessor said, based on the many incidents I relayed, that my H was extreme in his lack of mind sight and empathy. She said it would take a very long time for them to work with someone like that ( so not sure how that fits with what they can offer as she started by saying they do short term interventions). H will also have an assessment and then they will make an offer of support to us. They did say they would not offer support to us together, and I doubt individual support for him will help. H has no self insight, as well as no insight into others. so they won’t have anything real to work with.

The initial assessment with the family support worker, who referred us back into the autism service, was also gratifying as she said she identified his autism as the root of our issues.

So I think what I am saying is that the benefit for me has been the validation of my experience of living with him. I am not going mad, these professionals can see it too! There is support there, but whether it helps will depend on your H’s expression of autism and whether it allows him to have the motivation and ability to make some changes to his behaviour.

Finally I am in another support group where wives are trying to make their marriage work, and yes, it is entirely about them doing all the work and accommodation and sacrifice.