Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

@BustyLaRoux
I’m not sure that, at the level, it’s an update on how he is feeling. Rather it makes me think he is okaying tte victim snd is hoping to get a reaction (care, oh poor you etc…)

Absolutely same here too!

I’m finding that telling dh how I’m feeling a hard balance.
not enough and he is acting totally oblivious.
Too much and he is freaking out/ blocking it all

And yet I still need him to know so he can take (hopefully…) take it into account

And Tbf I’m doing the same with my parents who can’t deal with emotion and intimacy.

I think a lot of my problems is that I’ve been gaslighted and dismissed out of my own mind and I no longer trust my instinct on anything. I constantly look for validation and to be told directly takes the confusion out of things. But then as I’m learning this can be twisted also so I try my hardest to look at actions. Only thing is I then go back to am in interpreting it rightly. I need someone with me to guide me through life lol! Or perhaps just a house in the forest on my own, or in a community of people like me, that’d be lovely.

I think you have a lot of insight into yourself @Rainbow03 that you do not realize and you are on the right path. It sounds like you were emotionally neglected as a child and were not taught to trust yourself. This is why you seek validation from others. I am very much like you. Read up on emotionally neglected children. They (we ) need to learn to trust ourselves and stop looking for exterior guidance. Our emotions are a vital part of our being. We need to listen to them and then reflect on what they are telling us about ourselves before acting.

Sorry for the underlining! I don't know how to correct that.

I went to stay with someone the other month and it was so nice to see this person fluster and panic a bit because the kids were playing up. I don’t mean it in a bad way but it is nice to see some emotion that was genuine. My whole family pride themselves on being unflustered and completely capable and I am not. I’m like a flapping bird sometimes,I feel I get mentally stuck in this little world and I feel just wrong. I think perhaps my family are trying so hard to look “normal” they have lost the parts of them that are human. I have read that to be human is to suffer. I feel they are ashamed of me and perhaps this is because they are ashamed of themselves. Only I’m not ashamed of myself if that makes sense. When I am around them I make them feel awkward and they make me feel unwelcome, so I just do don’t go really anymore.

You sound like a fully alive authentic human being to me @Rainbow03 and much more interesting than these feelingless, unflappable, stereotyped beings who probably project their insecurities onto you.
Keep listening to your heart, there are other rare people out there like yourself.

I hope its okay to post here. I don't really do mumsnet and find the app tricky to use but here goes. I posted this in the relationships board and someone signposted me here.

We've been together over 10 years and married 8. 2 young kids. Only found out a year ago he is autistic (a year prior to that privately diagnosed as adhd but when diagnosed as autistic they seemed to suggest they don't think he is adhd). He has a professional job but the diagnosis all made sense as he has VERY black and white thinking, has never managed to maintain friendships and even familial relationships. He's had complaints from clients that he is off hand etc.

We have SO MANY issues but what seems to be happening most recently is that he is acting like an obnoxious teenager and is trying hold me responsible as the "controlling" one, when I'm trying to have reasonable conversations. Tonight he lost his temper because i asked my son if he wanted a daddy bedtime or both of us and he wanted both. Dh snapped at me that I was interfering with his bedtime and inserting myself into shower time with the kids?! I had to tell him to stop as this was in front of our son. It alike he is possessive.

I want to know if its even worth me trying therapy as I feel like I need validation. I also want some advice on how bad this could get if we split as I worry about his and his family's influence on our children.

When he knows I am seeing friends or his step mother he has accused me of fabricating things and that I shouldn't be talking to people about us. Said to me "you can go back to slagging me off again like when I caught you last time".

He says I'm stopping our children having a relationship with his mum (she actually cut us off years ago and I've since recognised how toxic she was so we have never resumed contact and life has been far easier without her manipulation). I said from the go that I'd support his relationship with her but he needs therapy as there are toxic elements to their relationship and before I'd expose our children he needs help recognising that. He's never sought therapy. He guilts me by saying Christmas is coming another one where she misses out. Last time we talked he told me that he didn't think I actually cared about him getting therapy and that I just didn't want the grief of dealing with her 😳

He speaks to me horribly I feel - things like "you're acting like I've shat on you", "you're getting bent over it", "the days of you having the final say are over". I admit I'm the one organising things and making suggestions trying to keep the wheels on because he is forgetful and chaotic. I deal with all the life admin, deep cleaning, organising and cooking and work part time. He does walk the dog, do daily house cleaning and tidying up of toys etc.

He is quite "anti-woke" and made several comments about people having an agenda, me having one etc.

We don't have sex and haven't for well over a year. I do have some physical issues with a prolapse which I've been referred for but obviously I just don't want to with how things are between us.

Whenever I try to have a conversation his tone is angry, aggressive, can't hear my opinion, no empathy AT ALL. When I've then tried to say I don't feel comfortable talking to him about it because of his tone he then acts disgusted at the suggestion that he's being intimidating.

I try really REALLY hard to be a reasonable person (he's even used this against me in a discussion as he said oh I know you've said before you'll never let yourself be seen as the bad guy...that was something I told him I had to say to an ex actually as he was physically and verbally abusive, not even my husband!!) but I just feel like everything is twisted against me and I'm being gaslighted (again he accuses me of this?!).

I've pushed for us to have counselling for months which he pushed back on because he became consumed by a complaint made against him at work but that is clearing up now. I have now had to give a date of when he needs to sort or I want to look at separating.

We have a very much quarter renovated dump of a house which will NOT sell (I know the market here) or we would lose considerable money on if we split and I'm very worried about his and his mother's influence over my children as I know he will just expose them to her and all her shite.

He's a loving and caring dad to our children.

Is there any point going to counselling?! I suppose I'm desperately hoping for them to offer some validation. I have got myself some individual therapy starting very soon. Please help.

Hello, I hope you don't mind me asking but how did you get the assessment as his carer? It sounds like it would be helpful for me. When my. H was diagnosed it was just him self reporting and we had one follow up "support" appointment which just left me raging internally as it was all just asking him questions and self reporting and a two minute after thought to me asking if I had anything to add!!

@SpecialMangeTout thank you for this. I also think my DP would struggle with young kids. He's patient and lovely when he sees them but I know he would have always wanted his own/thinks he'd be a great dad. But he doesn't seem to understand that children aren't robots who do exactly what their parents say.

He's wonderful in many ways but I'm starting to see some challenges, especially due to his ND parents. I'd never get married to anyone. Just wondering if this is the life I want

My apologies @Rainbow03 that was in response to @NDornotND!

ND/ND certainly brings some interesting dynamics.

@hoonoobrooncoo it sounds like you are stuck in a very adversarial dynamic. If you would like to shift this, try small acts of kindness. Do you think your H suffers from rejection sensitive dysphoria? It can accompany ADHD, but I also think my ASD DH has aspects of it. His nervous system overreacts dramatically to even perceived criticism. I can only talk to my H about adaptive behaviours when he's not in shutdown due to perceived criticism or overwhelm.

It feels unfair to me to be the one smoothing things over when I feel wronged. But it's the best way I've found to communicate effectively. I also write to my DH which gives him time to process his automatic negative response and truly reflect before we talk, but I don't think that has worked effectively for others on this thread. In my case DH does work hard to moderate his ASD and I work hard to accommodate him. I can't say it always works though.

In addition to sharing what has worked for us, I need to say that you can leave a relationship for any reason you want, if it's no longer working for you. It's a shit thing to have a half finished house but good mental health is more important. If contempt has set in on either side, it's hard to undo. I hope you can use therapy to be supported in considering your options.

@hoonoobrooncoo some of what you describe is also familiar here. DP insisting I am controlling for example. That his ex was controlling, his sibling is controlling. Basically anyone who might want to do something differently to him. I think this stems from needing to control his environment and have things on his terms in order to feel safe (lack of autonomy of perceived lack of autonomy is a big issue for him), and he therefore perceives me having a different opinion as me trying to control him. The irony is that he is insisting in the most absolute and abrupt way that things are done his way and cannot see that this is controlling. He will say we need to do x this way. I will offer a different opinion but not in a shut him down kind of way. More, like you say, as a let’s have a reasonable conversation about that. So I don’t say no, you’re wrong! We can’t do it like that. I’ll say mmm I’m not sure. Would it not be quicker to do it like this instead? (You know, like an adult conversation!) And he will shout No. No. No. Over the top of me. So I’ll say can you not just shut me down like that? It’s quite rude. Can’t we just discuss it please? And he’ll say he cannot have a conversation with me as I’m being dictatorial controlling and oppressing him and not listening (irony is that he has just shouted no no no over the top of me and is refusing any kind of discussion and won’t listen to my viewpoint at all). I find this hypocrisy unbearable.

Also the rewriting of history. Agreeing to something and then later accusing you of making him do stuff against his will. Accusing you of ulterior motives with various things. DP always assumes everyone has an ulterior motive for everythjng. He is so cynical and assumes his warped view of the world is valid and this is how everyone behaves, including me. Nothing I do can be done at face value. There is always some trickery or underhand motive. He assumes the worst in people.

I doubt that counselling would work too ok be honest. Sorry. I tried it with my DP. I so badly wanted validation as his behaviour to me was so awful. Angry, rude, unpredictable, critical. I wanted our counsellor to see that and give him a wake up call. But that’s not what happened. DP presented us as a typical couple with communication issues. If only we could communicate better then we wouldn’t have arguments. But most of our arguments were caused by him finding criticism in the most banal things. I once asked if he would get a dustpan after I cut his hair and he screamed at me that I was calling him a slob. Slept in a different bed and wouldn’t speak to me for two days. I literally just said “will you get the dustpan while I brush my teeth?”. And that was all it took for him to accuse me of calling him selfish and lazy as of course he would get the fucking dustpan. How dare I ask him! How dare I suggest he would leave hair on the floor!!!!! (I had just asked one question and said none of those things, nor did I imply them in any way).

He has exploded at me for repeating myself from the day before as he says this is my saying he has memory loss and is stupid. Again screaming at me why the fuck would I repeat myself? He has already acknowledged me so why the fuck am I saying this again??! The list of insane things he has accused me of inferring is endless.

But to the counsellor he just made it sound like he felt got at by me, and the onus therefore was on me to amend my behaviour. There was zero focus on trying to get him to change his perception of criticism where there was none, or his furious reaction. It was all about the changes I needed to work on. This was before we even knew he was autistic. And I did try and amend my language as the counsellor coached me to do, but it made no difference! He still felt got at. He will always feel got at because the problem is the way he filters incoming information, not the information itself, IYSWIM. And traditional couple therapy seems to focus on communication. In a nutshell there are tweaks which I have adopted as much as possible and these help a bit. But largely what helps most is me avoiding having negative feelings in any way or talking about my feelings if they relate to him, as my feelings are a trigger for him. This has been far more effective day to day. But it is emotionally costly to me as a human being.

Wow @BustyLaRoux I don't know how you do it.

The way ASD experience the world is very different.

I think we all need an element of control, but DW finds ways of taking control without taking any responsibility. Years ago I dreamed up the phrase passive control. Yes there's always elements of active control but it's mostly of the "you made me do it" variety, or "how can it be my fault I didn't do anything"?

Everyone needs safety and security and predictability, but some people seem to find damaging ways of achieving that.

This resonated with me so much,
I feel everything is spun and rewritten afterwards, but I was there too!! I feel gaslit.
The complete overreactions and moods over anything minor, not talking but exploding if expected to talk about anything whatsoever has made me just stop talking. It’s a terrible price to pay for peace.
Thank you x x

What are the point in these relationships now? I have got to this stage with some of my family members, just what is the point, what am I getting out of this.

Now we know that we fit a role and the relationship is not built on an emotional connection but more for a purpose I’ve given up. I feel like a washing machine to them, a metal object.

@3luckystars I’m sorry you have this as well. Rewriting history is very common in our house. I have recorded him a number of times just to prove he has said the things he is now flatly denying saying. I don’t mean we recall the odd sentence or word slightly differently, I mean whole conversations. He will flatly deny them and recall a totally different conversation. One which didn’t happen. But he is utterly convinced he is correct. He reinvents whole conversations and then gets angry when challenged.

He misreports what people have said or agreed to. I used to think it was deliberate. He must KNOW these things aren’t true. They haven’t happened. These fabricated conversations, these admissions of guilt….. he must know this is not true. But I think it is real for him.

I realised the other day that he has a problem with detail. He can’t actually process a lot of detail. Despite living here for over a decade he doesn’t know the names of any streets. He cannot remember people’s names. People we talk to all the time and whose name he knows. He’ll just start calling them a different name all of a sudden. Our landlord, all of a sudden he will refer to her but start using a different name (!!) and get irritable when I don’t know who he means. And the penny drops all of a sudden and I’ll say “oh, you mean Emma!!” And he’ll gesture like physically swatting away a fly and say “Emma, Emily, whatever!” (Detail, detail, swats it away!).

I actually don’t think he can process detail. His brain operates at a higher level and detail is superfluous. But he doesn’t realise he does this, so he fills in the gaps when he needs to (substitutes one name for another that sounds vaguely similar, invents a conversation as he can’t recall the actual one which took place) and insists this is what happened. But he can’t actually remember what happened because this is a level of detail his brain hasn’t retained. But because he has to be right at all times, the substituted detail MUST BE CORRECT. Otherwise he would be wrong. And he can’t admit that. Unless I happen to have recorded him. And play it to him. Evidence he has misremembered. And if so then he just shrugs and says “ok so what? Fine. I did say x. And?” But I can’t record him all the time!!! I don’t know if your DH is the same? Could he be short on processing detail and therefore has to fill in the blanks, but lacks the awareness to know this is what he’s done??

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm just exhausted.
Trying so hard to work out what's going on in dh's head, even when he doesn't even know.
Trying to find the right frequency to tune into, the right tune to dance to.
I am 100% sure that dh spends zero time worrying about our relationship, what he could be doing to make it better.
I don't want to be awake at 3am analysing a conversation and how I* *could have done it differently.
Comfort eating as I'm so frustrated he won't have a conversation I can then lay awake at 3am analysing.
Its like fucking groundhog day and I want it to stop.
He is away now until the new year and I should be just rejoicing in the calmness but when he is away it always hits home how much better my mental health is when he is not around.

I’m like this with my family so in the end I just don’t see them and that’s the only way I feel better. I know this can’t be done with a partner really.

Has anyone had any success teaching there partners about accountability? I refuse to stop throwing away his rubbish and he refuses to sort it himself leaving me with no choice but to throw away. It’s my house and we have kids and I don’t want to live in a shit hole! But we argue all the time about his bloody rubbish.

@hoonoobrooncoo im sorry. That sounds really hard 🫂🫂

To answer one if your questions. No he isnt going to change, esp if people have noted his tone is ‘off’ whilst at work. Aka he isnt able to mask even in environments you’d expect him too.

As some PP have said you can work on the way you deliver messages etc… but be aware it will be you making all the work. It makes a difference but it won’t give you a ‘normal’ relationship

My advice is counselling for yourself.
Because the situation you’re describing is a situation that is really hard work. You shouldn’t be living in a house where you’re constantly shouted at.
It should give you clarity and a much better sense of direction.

Cant advise what would happen if you separate. But I think the reality is that he will be their father regardless whether you’re together or not. His influence will always be there.

"Oh, I forgot" is dh's automatic response to:
Not picking up after himself
Not putting his stuff in the dishwasher
Not wiping the surfaces or doing ALL the dishes
Not cleaning the plug hole when its clogged with food
Not flushing the toilet properly
Not cleaning the sink after he has shaved or brushed his teeth
Not taking the rubbish when he going out anyway
Not putting petrol in the car when it's clearly on low
Not making dinner when he is home and we are all coming home later
Sorry @Rainbow03 This is my life too.

See I could cope with I forgot (maybe not) but mine just gets angry at me for saying anything. The usual is I work hard all day I don’t have the time in an angry voice followed immediately by something I don’t do. We aren’t talking about me though, we are talking about him. I hate the fact that he thinks he’s perfect despite being a slob at home. He visits people dressed as a slob. Didn’t want to dress nice for a wedding. I said it’s not about you feeling comfortable it’s about showing this person respect at their wedding. Sometimes it’s about other people despite whether you agree.