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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

999 replies

Daftasabroom · 09/10/2024 09:29

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 12 | Mumsnet

New thread. This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND o...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5121753-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-12?page=1

OP posts:
Rainbow03 · 08/12/2024 10:05

ANiceLittleHouseByTheSeaWithACatCalledBrenda · 08/12/2024 09:43

That’s such a good way of putting it @Rainbow03. I agree, it’s like being with a child.

I’ve come to realise that we have a relationship via our shared interests. We are lucky that we share many interests. But I realise that he only sees me through these interests. I think that’s why I’m struggling with his family members. The mum has relationships only with those who share “her” interests. So the other brother is “extremely” close, way too close for a grown up. They share all interests and he has no other outside of the mums interests. It’s like they are one person. My partner, her other son has different interests and we are basically ignored until he shows interest in one of her interests. It’s so odd.

Ohdostopwafflinggeremy · 08/12/2024 10:39

@Rainbow03 I agree about the shared interests.
Dh and I don't have any.
We spent years renovating various properties, which was a shared interest. In hindsight it was me making all the decisions and him using a hammer and nails.
Since we moved to this property which doesn't require a lot doing, I realise we have nothing in common.
I always have a book, or two, at hand, I listen to different genres of music. I watch TV, movies, documentaries etc. I like eating out, the theatre, walking, the gym. I have lots of interests, I like debating, discussing, learning. I'm like travelling and sightseeing.
Dh on the other hand watches sport, any sport. He doomscrolls for hours and hours and that's about it, other than work. I have tried to engage him, but he is not interested so it's just the kids and me.
I don't push things as I don't want to stress him out, and I'm mindful that I can't make him be interested in anything he's not.
It just makes for a very lonely existence.

SpecialMangeTout · 08/12/2024 17:09

Shared interests is a big issue here.
We had shared interests - all outdoorsy stuff that I can’t do anymore.
Then we had the dcs and they were sort of the glue/shared interest but they’ve both at Uni now with little interest in coming back home.

So…..
With no way DH will make the effort to join me in MY interests (even though I did make a huge effort to join him in his), it means yes loneliness. But also complete disconnection.
I think for quite some time, DH just couldn’t see what on earth he could talk to me about because of that. And even resentment when I tried to connect with him (what Gottman calls bids for connexion).

But then…. There is the choice element too…..

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 11:45

May I have some perspective on this please? This morning DD was crying over feeling that she isn't giving all of her (she has many, so a lot are snuggled up in fabric storage boxes, in hibernation!) soft toys enough affection. H then made a joke about how we could always burn half of them. I feel that this was very inappropriate and hurtful (I cried in the shower this morning as was so upset for DD). He apologied and told her it was a joke and he shouldn't have saud that. She seems ok now.

But, this isn't the first time he's made these types of jokes. He makes her feel bad over having so many soft toys (always looks disapproving when she's bought a new one) and is probably the reason she feels bad over the ones in the boxes. It's like he is punishing her somehow? I feel he does this in other areas too, to me. For a long time I thought maybe he is narcissistic and this is part of that pattern of behaviour. Yet, he does have empathy, at times.

I'm detaching by having my own room/space but DD is still stuck with this situation and I can't see how I'd ever manage to move out.

Am I overacting to this 'joke'? Maybe not ND related at all?!

Rainbow03 · 09/12/2024 11:59

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 11:45

May I have some perspective on this please? This morning DD was crying over feeling that she isn't giving all of her (she has many, so a lot are snuggled up in fabric storage boxes, in hibernation!) soft toys enough affection. H then made a joke about how we could always burn half of them. I feel that this was very inappropriate and hurtful (I cried in the shower this morning as was so upset for DD). He apologied and told her it was a joke and he shouldn't have saud that. She seems ok now.

But, this isn't the first time he's made these types of jokes. He makes her feel bad over having so many soft toys (always looks disapproving when she's bought a new one) and is probably the reason she feels bad over the ones in the boxes. It's like he is punishing her somehow? I feel he does this in other areas too, to me. For a long time I thought maybe he is narcissistic and this is part of that pattern of behaviour. Yet, he does have empathy, at times.

I'm detaching by having my own room/space but DD is still stuck with this situation and I can't see how I'd ever manage to move out.

Am I overacting to this 'joke'? Maybe not ND related at all?!

My partner would say the same thing tbh. He thinks it’s best to not be over emotional about stuff (coming from the man who hoards everything). Or perhaps he means it’s best to not openly be emotional about things. In this situation I would probably make a joke out of it. I’m not sure of the proper approach really. I want to try and teach my child to make light sometimes out of situations and pick the battles so she doesn’t end up like me who picks all battles and gets overwhelmed. People say I moly coddle her but that’s only because I want to keep her regulated. I’m not sure if the better approach is to let her experience things and learn to regulate. Arghh

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 12:10

Rainbow03 · 09/12/2024 11:59

My partner would say the same thing tbh. He thinks it’s best to not be over emotional about stuff (coming from the man who hoards everything). Or perhaps he means it’s best to not openly be emotional about things. In this situation I would probably make a joke out of it. I’m not sure of the proper approach really. I want to try and teach my child to make light sometimes out of situations and pick the battles so she doesn’t end up like me who picks all battles and gets overwhelmed. People say I moly coddle her but that’s only because I want to keep her regulated. I’m not sure if the better approach is to let her experience things and learn to regulate. Arghh

Thank you, I really do get over-emotional over these sort of things. Can't tell when I'm over reacting and swinging from one side to the other. It means I swing from thinking H isn't too bad to thinking I can't stand him. I seriously need some therapy 😩

FreshLaundry · 09/12/2024 13:43

Maybe ask yourself what would have been the best outcome. Would it have been your DD working through the fact that the soft toys feelings won't be hurt by her actions? What steps would have enabled that?

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 14:15

FreshLaundry · 09/12/2024 13:43

Maybe ask yourself what would have been the best outcome. Would it have been your DD working through the fact that the soft toys feelings won't be hurt by her actions? What steps would have enabled that?

We've sort of worked through prior to all this it by me suggesting that the soft toys all know she loves them and that they are happily snuggling and hibernating in the boxes (We've grouped them by type of animal and they even have cushions to sleep on) whilst we rotate which ones 'live' on her bed for a bit.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 14:16

Although maybe I need to help her work through this better.

SpecialMangeTout · 09/12/2024 16:13

@ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore is your dd on the spectrum?

Dc2 had made soft toys his special interest. He had loads of them, just like your dd.
With him, there is no way I would have put them away in the attic. There were literally his confort blanket.
(dc2 is 20yo. And still when he comes back home, all his friends are in his bed)

But even if your dd isn’t on the spectrum, I don’t think it’s something where your dd needs to learn to be tougher. Rather I think she needs to learn to make choices. And that she has agency - the possibility to choose which ones will be in her bed tonight. Whilst the others are in the cupboard for the night. Not put away. She needs to hear that you have her back and can hear how important it is to her.
Teaching her to ‘work through this better’ sounds too much like ‘how to learn to put your feelings aside so daddy isn’t upset/can joke at my expense’

(OK I might be projecting there. But that’s the sort if jokes my dad did. It hurt like hell and I still remember hoping my mum would stand up for me. I was 8yo)

BustyLaRoux · 09/12/2024 16:15

My (autistic) dad used to smack my teddies thinking he was being funny. I did not find it funny at all. It was horrible.

When my DS was little, my dad used to pick him up from school one day a week. One day my DS (who was probably no more than 5 or 6) was upset after my dad had picked him up. When I asked why he said “grandpa has been punching my teddy in the face”. Again I think my dad was trying to be funny. He wants to socially engage with people as he craves human interaction so badly, but he simply doesn’t know how to go about it. He can’t intuit that a child would find their favourite teddy being punched in the face quite traumatic! I told him he’d upset my DS with this behaviour and asked him please not to do that again. He didn’t apologise. Just looked a bit taken aback. I suppose at least your H was able to say sorry to your DD. I think the lack of empathy (of course saying a child should burn their teddies is going to be upsetting!) is the source of the problem. Trying to make a joke and just not being able to see that punching a child’s teddy bear or saying half of their toys could be burnt is not going to be remotely funny to a child! You and I and most other people can intuit stuff, but sadly my dad (your H?) has to have every individual social interaction explained to him so he can learn the rule for it. (Rule 938: don’t enact or threaten violence to young children’s beloved teddies)!!

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 17:10

SpecialMangeTout · 09/12/2024 16:13

@ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore is your dd on the spectrum?

Dc2 had made soft toys his special interest. He had loads of them, just like your dd.
With him, there is no way I would have put them away in the attic. There were literally his confort blanket.
(dc2 is 20yo. And still when he comes back home, all his friends are in his bed)

But even if your dd isn’t on the spectrum, I don’t think it’s something where your dd needs to learn to be tougher. Rather I think she needs to learn to make choices. And that she has agency - the possibility to choose which ones will be in her bed tonight. Whilst the others are in the cupboard for the night. Not put away. She needs to hear that you have her back and can hear how important it is to her.
Teaching her to ‘work through this better’ sounds too much like ‘how to learn to put your feelings aside so daddy isn’t upset/can joke at my expense’

(OK I might be projecting there. But that’s the sort if jokes my dad did. It hurt like hell and I still remember hoping my mum would stand up for me. I was 8yo)

Thank you, yes DD is autistic and the soft toys are definitely her blanket. They all have names and personalities and I know every single one and their relationships 😊 probably should have explained that the fabric boxes are in her room and not in attic, we organised them together with owls all nesting on a nice cushion, cats snuggling together etc. She loves them all so much and we even take an extra case on holiday so she can always bring a big selection with her. It costs extra but that is part of the parcel/reasonable adjustment.

By working it through maybe I mean that helping her to feel that it's ok for the owls to sleep whilst the dogs are on the bed and reassuring her.

At the moment we have got them all out of the boxes on her double bed, giving them cuddles through the day and going through their names etc. I might be sleeping in the floor tonight! Don't mind if it helps tbh.

I did stand up to H about it and although he did apologise to DD when I did he is clearly annoyed with me.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 17:18

BustyLaRoux · 09/12/2024 16:15

My (autistic) dad used to smack my teddies thinking he was being funny. I did not find it funny at all. It was horrible.

When my DS was little, my dad used to pick him up from school one day a week. One day my DS (who was probably no more than 5 or 6) was upset after my dad had picked him up. When I asked why he said “grandpa has been punching my teddy in the face”. Again I think my dad was trying to be funny. He wants to socially engage with people as he craves human interaction so badly, but he simply doesn’t know how to go about it. He can’t intuit that a child would find their favourite teddy being punched in the face quite traumatic! I told him he’d upset my DS with this behaviour and asked him please not to do that again. He didn’t apologise. Just looked a bit taken aback. I suppose at least your H was able to say sorry to your DD. I think the lack of empathy (of course saying a child should burn their teddies is going to be upsetting!) is the source of the problem. Trying to make a joke and just not being able to see that punching a child’s teddy bear or saying half of their toys could be burnt is not going to be remotely funny to a child! You and I and most other people can intuit stuff, but sadly my dad (your H?) has to have every individual social interaction explained to him so he can learn the rule for it. (Rule 938: don’t enact or threaten violence to young children’s beloved teddies)!!

Yes, and it's exhausting trying to explain to a grown man why threatening to burn teddies is just not on. H did later say to me that DD 'really does live her soft toys, doesn't she?' suggesting he does know yet the filter is not there to say inappropriate things!

I was so upset earlier today I couldn't tell if it was an overreaction on my part or not, the lines became so blurred.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 17:21

(Might create a hammock or shelved 'nest' for the toys if being in boxes isn't right for DD, there isn't quite enough room on the bed)

pikkumyy77 · 09/12/2024 17:23

Maybe ask him what rule he follows in generating “jokes” about another person?

If [important object] + owner then no jokes is a good rule.

Rainbow03 · 09/12/2024 17:28

I would and I do with my daughter just teach her that other people don’t think the same as each other but that doesn’t mean how we think is not right. As long as what we are doing isn’t hurting anyone then it’s absolutely ok. Daddy can have his little jokes but it’s doesn’t take away how she feels. Maybe ask her how you can help or what you can do with the teddies together so she feels better. Sometimes it’s not even the teddies that’s the issue but a projection of another thing that’s on her mind and she needs some connection. I know in my own daughter’s case when she is troubled she will arrange and re-arrange her desk. Some people (lots of people) aren’t always going to understand but I think it’s important to teach them that it’s ok if people don’t understand it doesn’t mean I have to change. I wish I been taught that others weren’t going to understand me but that wasn’t an invitation to change myself for them.

BustyLaRoux · 09/12/2024 17:29

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 17:18

Yes, and it's exhausting trying to explain to a grown man why threatening to burn teddies is just not on. H did later say to me that DD 'really does live her soft toys, doesn't she?' suggesting he does know yet the filter is not there to say inappropriate things!

I was so upset earlier today I couldn't tell if it was an overreaction on my part or not, the lines became so blurred.

I’m a massive wuss and believe all toys have feelings!!! So I was actually quite upset when my dad punched my DS’s teddy. It brought back all the feelings I had as a child when he used to whack and smack my teddies. Your DD is free to love her teddies and I think the hammock is a lovely idea. My DD (who’s in Y7) still rotates her teddies and chooses which one to cuddle each night. She feels bad when she wakes up in the morning and some of them have fallen on the floor. It shows her caring side I think. My dad would never understand that. Though he is a bit of a hoarder himself so obviously attaches meaning to things. Just not teddies!! 😕

SpecialMangeTout · 09/12/2024 18:30

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 17:10

Thank you, yes DD is autistic and the soft toys are definitely her blanket. They all have names and personalities and I know every single one and their relationships 😊 probably should have explained that the fabric boxes are in her room and not in attic, we organised them together with owls all nesting on a nice cushion, cats snuggling together etc. She loves them all so much and we even take an extra case on holiday so she can always bring a big selection with her. It costs extra but that is part of the parcel/reasonable adjustment.

By working it through maybe I mean that helping her to feel that it's ok for the owls to sleep whilst the dogs are on the bed and reassuring her.

At the moment we have got them all out of the boxes on her double bed, giving them cuddles through the day and going through their names etc. I might be sleeping in the floor tonight! Don't mind if it helps tbh.

I did stand up to H about it and although he did apologise to DD when I did he is clearly annoyed with me.

Edited

Ah, that’s nowhere near as bad.
i think I’ve got so used to my/our DH to come up with crazy ideas like this so I’m just assuming the worst iyswim🫣🫣

Yes maybe having a chat on how she’d like to organise things? Even though tbh dc2 just had all of them in his bed and somehow always found a space for himself in the middle 😁

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 18:34

BustyLaRoux · 09/12/2024 17:29

I’m a massive wuss and believe all toys have feelings!!! So I was actually quite upset when my dad punched my DS’s teddy. It brought back all the feelings I had as a child when he used to whack and smack my teddies. Your DD is free to love her teddies and I think the hammock is a lovely idea. My DD (who’s in Y7) still rotates her teddies and chooses which one to cuddle each night. She feels bad when she wakes up in the morning and some of them have fallen on the floor. It shows her caring side I think. My dad would never understand that. Though he is a bit of a hoarder himself so obviously attaches meaning to things. Just not teddies!! 😕

I would be upset too! Teddies are special and should be treated with love and care.

A couple of years ago DD was very upset when one of her friend's little brother had thrown his soft toy cat into a bush and just left it there! DD's best friend's mum, who was also at the playdate, noticed how upset DD was and climed into the bush to rescue the kitty, it was all soggy and wet as had been left for days. DD still remembers this years later!

DD's toys often falls onto the floor during the night, we usually say that the toys have taken themselves off on an adventure beyond the bed.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 18:37

SpecialMangeTout · 09/12/2024 18:30

Ah, that’s nowhere near as bad.
i think I’ve got so used to my/our DH to come up with crazy ideas like this so I’m just assuming the worst iyswim🫣🫣

Yes maybe having a chat on how she’d like to organise things? Even though tbh dc2 just had all of them in his bed and somehow always found a space for himself in the middle 😁

A chat sounds like a good idea, if I go on the floor on a mattress next to her bed, there is definitely room for DD and all her toys. Which might work towards an end to co-sleeping which is probably about time too.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 09/12/2024 18:53

pikkumyy77 · 09/12/2024 17:23

Maybe ask him what rule he follows in generating “jokes” about another person?

If [important object] + owner then no jokes is a good rule.

He loves 'banter' which often means crossing the line but yes, that is a good ground rule.

Daftasabroom · 11/12/2024 08:22

@ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore DS had a lot of soft toys, eventually we organized a rota for which ones got to sleep in his bed. The others kept each other company.

OP posts:
BustyLaRoux · 11/12/2024 08:59

My new friend is diagnosed autistic. We get on well. We share a hobby which is how I met him. New friend is having some issues where he works and says he’s fallen out with the new manager. And had previously fallen out with the one before that. They’d asked him to consider who the common denominator was. He was outraged! And told me all about it. We got on to the subject of support and family and he told me he no longer speaks to his parents or his sibling.

If struck me that this routine falling out with people, the issues at work, the blaming everyone else and the refusal to accept the common denominator might actually be the root of the problem. The indignation of any suggestion that maybe he makes things difficult….. it was all very reminiscent.

It struck me that the three most challenging relationships in my life (DP, my dad and my SIL) are all (most likely) autistic. How they see criticism in every comment, how they never take any responsibility, how they routinely upset other people (SIL has a host of people she no longer speaks to but of course it is always the other person who has behaved badly and never her. She even physically attacked someone in public the other day - but of course it was their fault, not hers! 😱). The hypocrisy of offending people all the time and yet managing to find ways to be constantly offended themselves (with the exception of my dad who is actually incredibly thick skinned). The fault finding and obsession with blame all the time. The rigid view they are always right. No room for reflection or questioning one’s self. Shutting down of any view that doesn’t match theirs. Dismissiveness of people who do things differently. Rudeness to people. Incredible difficulty with apologising and will instead deflect blame onto partner/ colleague/relative/friend. Constantly interrupting. Constantly making every conversation about them. Inability to empathise. Inability to read people. The seeking of conflict. Shouting as communication (all three of them have or have had partners who continually ask them to please stop shouting all the time. Obviously they deny shouting or say it’s the other person’s fault for making them shout).

When I say “they” I mean these three people in my life. I don’t mean all autistic people at all. I’m sure there are many millions of autistic people who don’t behave like this at all. But these behaviours are common to the three people in my life that I have a close relationship with. They are by far the most challenging relationships I have. They test my patience to its absolute limit. They are all strikingly similar.

And I was thinking about my new friend (I don’t know him very well) and wondering if his nearest and dearest would say similar things about him. Just the things he’s told me about his ex relationship and his struggles at work and some of the messages he’s written to people and showed me. I’m trying to be a friend as I think he could do with one right now, but I did wonder how much of his current challenges are his own doing. How I wish someone would say to these people (again I mean the people in my life, not all autistic people) how hard they make it for themselves and for everyone around them. How it’s not everyone else. It is them. I wish someone would deliver them hard truths. I have tried over the years but I’ve probably been too gentle. I shy away from confrontation. I know my DB has tried with his DW (my SIL) but it doesn’t go down well and she won’t accept or entertain anything he says and just shouts at him or bursts into floods of tears and says he is horrible to her. There is no room for reflection. I love these people but my life would be a lot easier without them.

I also know there is a drive to get NT people to accommodate these behaviours and to see them as a disability. But I am ND myself. Is my ND trumped by autism? Should these three people be allowed to upset (assault?!) and abuse people because to blame them for doing so is seen as discriminatory? How many of us on here are struggling and suffering? All those posts I’ve read where people have sought support through groups or couple counselling only to be told they are the ones who need to try harder! I don’t want to try harder! I am trying. I want someone to say to each of these people in my life that it’s them who need to change their behaviours to make life better for those around them. The whole thing makes me quite upset and sad.

(Sorry if I’ve offended anyone. I haven’t meant to. Honestly this is about me and my relationships with three people who make my life very very hard).

BustyLaRoux · 11/12/2024 08:59

Daftasabroom · 11/12/2024 08:22

@ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore DS had a lot of soft toys, eventually we organized a rota for which ones got to sleep in his bed. The others kept each other company.

We have similar! ☺️

SpecialMangeTout · 11/12/2024 09:31

Currently reading a book on adult children of emotionally immature parents.
Originally really about me revisiting my relationship with my parents but I can’t help but be struck by how much it also applies to DH too. Both as a consequence to emotionally immature parents and himself as an emotionally immature person.

It made me wonder how much his upbringing is affecting dh vs ASD.

One thing is clear is that your description of ‘it’s always someone else fault’ would fit perfectly the image of a child of immature parents (what she calls ‘the externaliser’ vs ‘the internaliser’ who thinks everything is their fault and they need to change)