Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

I think it does just kill off relationships. I manage my mums Autism and i do my best with my daughter but it’s a killer for a romantic relationship I feel. It’s infantilises them.

It’s also really scary and intimidating to be a petite sensitive woman stood in front of a 6ft man throwing a tantrum because he perceives blame in your voice. I think it can be quite dangerous to be undiagnosed and in relationships with others.

I would agree with this!! DP is 6’3 and 17 stone (probably more) am a foot shorter and half his weight. When he shouts, which is his natural communication style, it’s very intimidating. I’m not scared in that I believe he will attack me. He would never ever lay a finger on me. I am completely convinced of that. But the volume (both mass and noise) of him compared to me sets me into panic/freeze mode. He has decided that when I ask him calmly to please stop shouting I am only doing this as a tactic to distract the conversation away from my faults. He has decided this is ACTUAL PROOF that I cannot tolerate any kind of accusation of wrong doing on my part (oh, the bitter irony!) and accuse him of shouting when he isn’t shouting. He says this is because I live in my own little completely un-self aware bubble where I never do anything wrong. Because I can’t take criticism, I have difficulty accepting any blame whatsoever, and I say things like “please stop shouting” and “can you please stop interrupting every single thing I say?” as ways to derail the conversation he wants to have. And this is a sign of my poor communication and how he simply cannot talk to me and how this is all my fault. Of course.

I’m like “dude, I just want you to stop shouting. I don’t mind listening to what you have to say. I really don’t avoid listening to criticism if I must. I do reflect often. I do apologise when I think I’ve been wrong. But I CANNOT HEAR YOU when you shout at me as all my senses are telling me I am in danger and my brain goes into freeze/flight mode. I can’t do rational thinking at that point. Asking you to stop shouting has nothing to do with not wanting to listen. It’s actually the opposite!”

But of course he knows my motivations and inner workings better than me (is supreme psychoanalyst and never ever wrong so it must be silly me who is wrong) and continues shouting that I need to LISTEN TO THE WHAT, NOT THE HOW!!!!!! The fact I can’t, is evidence of my defensiveness and living in a bubble. Apparently.

The irony that he thinks it’s me who can’t listen.

I used to think I could change him. I’ve realised the shouting is just his style of communication. And he doesn’t recognise he’s doing it. Doesn’t see why it’s a problem. My dad is the same. Doesn’t understand that shouting at people is completely uncalled for and often quite upsetting and shocking for them. I grew up with so much shouting! I think the self awareness that they are doing it isn’t there, coupled with the lack of empathy and inability to read people’s reactions. They just plough on shouting at everyone, as all emotions tend to illicit this very angry and basic response, completely oblivious and blaming their partner for the conversation going awry.

When we had a counsellor, he would just deny he had shouted and would tell the counsellor I was over sensitive and struggled to accept when I was in the wrong. I wonder if the counsellor could see through him. Difficult for them to know what’s true I guess. Maybe an ND specialist might have known this was common in couples with this dynamic. I wish we had an ND specialist counsellor on here….

I completely agree with the killing of the relationship. I have zero romantic notions towards dh. We have had separate bedrooms for years, we haven't had sex for years. I am not attracted to him physically or on an emotional level. Even though we have been together for nearly 30years, we have nothing to talk about. I have stopped trying to initiate conversation as if its anything deeper than the weather he will literally get up and walk away. It is so incredibly lonely.

Hi @FreshLaundry. My advice, FWIW, is if you’re choosing to stay then you must find a way to accept what is. For now. Acceptance (temporary) is self preservation. To fight and resist, but choosing to stay is like torture. There are degrees of acceptance. There is the passive giving up kind. And the ‘I will remove myself when I don’t like what is happening but I accept there is no point fighting it’ kind. I was trapped in the stay/resist and fight it stage for a while. It was pointless. I was flip flopping between leaving and staying and struggling to accept either. I wanted to stay but for things to be different. At some point I had to learn to accept that wasn’t possible. If I wanted different then I needed to leave. If I needed to stay then I needed to accept things would not be different.
I accept what is. He can’t change. I can tinker round the edges. There are some small changes which have made things tolerable. For now. I still struggle. I need to vent. I need a lot of support. But I accept what is. I work around it rather than against it.
That’s my advice to you. If you need to stay for whatever your reasons are (certainly no judgement from me), then in order not to send yourself crazy try and work with what you have. Get a good support system. Carve out pockets of time for yourself, if you can. Stay calm. Remove yourself when you need to. Focus on survival, not change. Xx

@BustyLaRoux I agree. I am staying, for now, and am trying really really hard to find my survival mode and just stay in that lane. The urge to fight for US, (the US that I thought we were, the US that I really want us to be, the US that I think we should be) is getting weaker as i accept that i alone cannot make this work.
It is so hard some days, but I know I am fortunate that dh works away and I at least get a reprieve, but it also highlights how much happier I am when he is not around.
It is so sad that I am looking forward to him being away for Christmas.

@BustyLaRoux I tried to have that conversation with my ex so many times. He was even sent on courses via the court to try and get him to understand his actions. He simply could not understand the consequences of his behaviour, or even accept he had “behaviour” on other people. He used to tell me he came from a very passionate and loud place so I shouldn’t have an issue and I shouldn’t be scared because it’s “normal”. No matter how much I explained it wasn’t normal for me and I didn’t like it I still got the same response. I hate shouting because of my childhood experiences. He couldn’t understand that my experiences shaped me. He only saw his own. He was fine with so should I. We simply don’t exist outside of their own experiences. It was awful. Instead of loving and taking care of me and my needs as we should do he saw them as weakness and something to exploit for when he felt attack or rejection or just totally ignored them. Awful man.

I get it. I have been having counselling for 2 years now. The counsellor asked me if he is like this with other people or just me.
I watched for a few months.
and it’s not other people.
Just me. There is my answer. It’s not just autism, it’s also a choice.

And I also have a choice.

@3luckystars yes I agree there.
There is a mix of autism and choice in DH. What actually tips things is still a mystery to me.

Recently, DH has started to talk to me again. Show some interest in my health and even proposed some support. There has been NOTHING at all like that for the last 3+ years.
I have no idea what triggered the switch. Many possibilities but one of them is certainly that he CHOSE to be more careful and caring when he couldn’t be bothered before.

Unfortunately, my take home message is that he could have done so before too.
So 1- I’m not trusting it will last and 2- it’s killed the relationship even more.

I've been reading this thread for a while as my DH is going through the process of.assessment (NHS so has been a while) and has his final appointment in a few weeks. I am broadly supportive but have been struggling a little, mainly because I am an overthinker!

He is a wonderful man and a loving and attentive DH of 17 years. He pushes himself outside of his comfort zone for us, works hard, is kind and interested and fully engaged in family life.

My worry is probably a silly and certainly a selfish one. With his diagnosis I think he will take it on as a new identity... he is very much keen to "find his tribe" in everything - a hobby is never just a hobby, a favourite programme is always a new obsession etc. And selfishly I feel that he will have an explanation for all his foibles and poor behaviours (and there are several, he is perfect for me but certainly not perfect) and I will just continue being boring / whiny / unkind / lazy because I'm just a bit of shitty person, as we all can be. There'll be no reason for my shitty quirks if that makes sense. I know it's absolutely bonkers but I am worried that he will continue to unmask - which I want for him, I want his life to be east and happy - to the point that I actually wouldn't have married the unmasked version.

God what self-indulgent ramblings! But I can't share with anyone irl (though I have shared with him and he seemed to totally get it and reassured me of his love, attraction and support for me). Fwiw I am 99% sure he is autistic, though his parents died a year or two before we met in our late teens and there is no one who knows / knew him as a child and before the huge "being orphaned at 18" trauma.

His reason for pursuing the diagnosis is to understand himself better, feel more secure in his (evidentially beneficial) 'reasonable adjustments' at work and crucially in support and solidarity with our autistic DC.

I understand you completely @WeTookVows and felt exactly the same. In my case DH has changed massively since our marriage and I already felt pretty misled. So the thought that there was more to come was quite terrifying.

In our case he has taken ASD as his special interest. He's never off his phone for groups, podcasts, books etc. But the diagnosis has genuinely helped us to understand each other better. A lot of his behaviours are driven by anxiety which due to alexithymia he didn't know he had. He's had therapy and a work coach through Access to Work. Do you think your DH is open to those supports?

Yes! That's the way I think (fear?) it will go for DH. His special interest is wrestling and I think there's a large community of ND people there, though, so may not change too much. DH has good emotional empathy but poor cognitive empathy which I think might be similar in some ways to your DH's alexythmia in that he isn't able to label how he or other people are feeling very well. He doesn't have a work coach though we have looked at Access to Work - he is in a huge company in an industry with a high proportion of ND people and has decent support from occupational health and his line manager.

I feel like it might be me that needs the therapy to be honest; he copes amazingly well and is very resilient mentally. I suppose we complement each other in that way. Having written all this out I feel like maybe I'm having jealousy issues... I am stupidly worried he'll go off with someone ND who doesn't challenge him like our relationship does - his life would be objectively easier and less anxious without him needing to deal with my denands, mixed with grief related to our DD's diagnosis - she really struggles with ASD / anxiety and supporting her comes at high personal cost.

It is good to know it has helped you and DH to go through this process and that things are good.

My DH went down an absolute rabbit hole when he first got his ADHD diagnosis, he is also definitely autistic but no formal DX although DS is "officially" AuDHD. This has calmed down a lot over the months. But he initially was reading all the stuff. I did my best to understand stuff I didn't already know (we've been together 24 years) but his diagnosis does not excuse crap behaviour and he knows this.
But I've caught myself where some of my behaviour has been nit picky and unproductive, but makes him feel disproportionately worse and doesn't achieve anything other than me sounding off!
I would say it may well fall into a short term obsession, especially if it doesn't change huge amounts for him day to day. A decent counsellor might be worth a look though, for both of you. You're allowed to feel worried and uncertain right now and it will probably be helpful to discuss this with someone who isn't your partner.

I actually did have therapy through work as I reacted so strongly to DHs' diagnosis. I can recommend doing so. For me there was a sense of loss in that all our difficulties were not attributable to some temporary thing, they are permanent. We are incredibly different and actually quite incompatible. DH has very limited capacities in ways that I did not previously see clearly. All of that is incredibly confronting.

As well as now being the only one in the family without ND. I actually fear being annihilated by my family's needs, like there might be nothing left one day. Confronting these fears too is quite hard as there's a real truth to them, but they are exaggerated.

I took them to be my brain setting out some boundaries and let myself set these in therapy. We spent a lot of time going over basic needs for me and I reached an understanding of under which circumstances I'd stay and which I'd end the relationship. That all made me feel more empowered. Sorry if I've overshared here.

Thank you both for validating my worries and sharing your stories. Very much resonate with the "nit picking and unproductive" line there... and that's the thing, I'm just a bit of a shitty person because I'm a bit of a shitty person. Sometimes it feels like he's on a cusp of a 'get out of jail free card.' Sounds awfully self absorbed then I write it down.

I also fear becoming overwhelmed and "annihilated by my family's needs". Off to see what my workplace offer in terms of counselling etc.

Would it help if I as someone with nearly diagnosed ASD (like your H waiting for the last part of assessment but screening tests all say 'yes' to ASD) says you are not being selfish or self-indulgent at all. A diagnosis should not mean a 'get out of jail' card but rather finding ways to make it work for both of you. That book about the ADHD effect on marriage I read says 'try differently, not harder', I know that is ADHD but the two often cross over.

I'm guilty of getting a bit obsessed with ASD FB groups and books, blogs etc when first being referred for assessment, but, I did scale back eventually and found a middle ground. I do need some reasonable adjustments but am also aware that other people have feelings and needs too.

H on the other hand seems to use his undiagnosed ND as an excuse for his behaviours and I am waiting to see if he can find ways to manage the behaviours which affects me negatively or not (like shouting and being nasty) before I make final decisions for the future.

For me it's the incredibly blurred line on where dh's limitations start and where him just being a dick overlap. I will berate myself first for 'overreacting ', I understand now that I have enabled that blurred line to stay blurred for years.
I sometimes think I have created my own monster, by blaming myself first for getting angry at dh's ADD, he can't help it, so i feel guilty. Over the years I have basically taken control of every aspect of our lives, not through choice, but necessity. The constant disappointment/frustration/anger of him forgetting to do every day tasks, means I don't ask anymore, I just do it myself.
Eg: We live down a country lane so our 'bins' are on the main road. Every day for years i would ask dh to take the rubbish when he walked the dog, and every day for years he would forget. I now just put my coat on and take it. Dh will then say "I could have taken that" when I return. WTAF😠

‘annihilated by my family's needs’ is a really powerful statement. I am grateful I read that, thank you.

I think something rlse going on is that he and your dc will share something, this autistic diagnosis, leaving you outside in a support role. As he was orphaned early he may also sort of be on a voyage to rediscover his parents and, indeed, his childhood self and that might mean an extended period of reparenting for you. So i would be anxious too, if I were you.

Tie the dog to the bins.

My notifications just popped up with ‘tie the dog to the bins’ in isolation and it did get me wondering what was going on in the thread 😂😂😂.

The concept of a behavioural get out of jail free card and being misled about who I married is exactly what I have been struggling with. DH is undiagnosed but it’s pretty clear in my eyes. He is, though, quite reflective and after the event is often able to see how his defensive response to certain situations causes unnecessary escalation. But I do worry about how far through his unmasking we are.

Whilst he struggles to sit down and talk about things in the round (conversations tend to have a clear purpose and once we have discussed that issue there is no need for further chat), I do hope that we might be able to agree where he needs me to behave differently to support him better, equally the same is true of him supporting me in some of his behaviours. I guess It’s an acknowledgement that we all (ND or otherwise) mask to some extent to adapt to certain situations and get along with people. I cannot behave the same way in a board meeting as I would in the pub with friends, and autism doesn’t give you an automatic free pass to just act however you fancy (though I acknowledge that some ND people can’t differentiate between those scenarios).

@pikkumyy77 Maybe tying dh to the bins would be a better solution 🤪😁😵‍💫

@TwinklyTornadoBear The deciphering of dh's behaviour and then my appropriate reaction takes up far too much of my headspace. After such a long time together I'm none the wiser and just tired basically.
I thought we would be sharing our life together, making joint decisions instead of me just telling him what we are doing and when.

The worst thing for me about people who are ND in my life is that they won’t/don’t/can’t make any efforts in relating to you. If you slightly differ in your opinions or outlook then you f**d. You have to fit the mould. If this was friends or acquaintances then it’s easy but when it’s partners and family it’s so upsetting. I often wish I was born to fit my families mould then I wouldn’t be so out on my ear. There are so many good qualities to being ND but for me this I has been soul destroying. They say that they are square pegs in a round hole. I get that, I get it’s hard but then they are a lot of the time completely unaccepting of anyone else. My MIL is ND and she has never accepted me and it’s always been really upsetting. She finds me basically ridiculous because I am emotionally led. Zero effort to understand me. An NT person may find you different but they can find parts of you to relate to and love you even if you aren’t a carbon copy. I dislike this black and white world, and then when they have decided you aren’t like them then have very little empathy about how you feel not being accepted.

That’s such a good way of putting it @Rainbow03. I agree, it’s like being with a child.