Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

@MetooOP im sorry you’ve found yourself in such a group. It’s not what you wanted but more to the point REALLY NOT what you needed.

fwiw I think it’s that sort of discourse that means some men who’ve been diagnosed as autistic as adults become even more difficult to deal with. They’re just told it’s just how they are and it’s us, NT, who are so hurtful.

Yes, except he can have empathy but only in quite limited and clear cut situations. If I cried he would see i was upset and try to comfort me. Same with the kids. But if he was angry with our youngest for not getting ready in time, and our youngest got upset, he would not empathise then, because his own emotions would cancel out reading his son's iyswim. He wouldn't be able to understand that he needed to change direction with his son to enlist co-operation from him.

So yes, he does have empathy - he is not completely without it - but its limited and exists in limited circumstances. And it has to be in simple and straighforward situations, . .

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. The behaviour is abusive. Doesn't mean the person is abusive or that he understands or means to be abusive, of course. I fact, it's very unlikely that his intention is anything of the sort. But the behaviour is violent and abusive

Maybe in our case, when the behaviour isn’t meant to be abusive, a better word is hurtful/violent/aggressive (any or all of them as appropriate)?

@MetooOP But if he was angry with our youngest for not getting ready in time, and our youngest got upset, he would not empathise then, because his own emotions would cancel out reading his son's iyswim. He wouldn't be able to understand that he needed to change direction with his son to enlist co-operation from him.
This resonates with me in respect of DH. the difference though is that DH is able to, subsequently, think about the interaction and realise that it was not a helpful interaction.

IN terms of your group, it sounds to me like this is the sort of group for partners/parents of ASD people who are much more able and willing to engage. People who are genuinely trying and who accept that their ASD makes them behave in ways that are different to the majority of the poulation and who are trying to figure out how to navigate this. Vs your experience which is that your DH doesn't even accept that he is ever in the wrong or that his behaviour ever impacts others negatively.

The Rupture/Repair cycle someone referred to earlier is a good example. Perhaps partners who understand the need for that are the relationships that this group is actually able to support. Th eonly example i can think of is for example with an addict - as a family member of an addict, the support/worries you need/have while they are using are different to the support/worries you need/have when they are in recovery. Doesn't mean that you don't need that support in both instances. I have seen this first hand.

Oh god the meeting was with parents of children with ASD. Yeah that’s a little weird. I suppose abuse is something done for advantage or pleasure and that’s not what is happening.

Thank you.

And now, after getting that bloody video link, I am really worried that what you outline is what will happen when my H goes to whatever support that they offer to him. He already thinks he is great and I am just really horrible, and now I am worried that the 'support' will just reinforce this, and make things even worse.

@MetooOP i am so sorry. This experience sounds awful. Laughable that the self care section was limited to one bit about going for walk! I am so angry on your behalf.

I’d love to go along to this group and ask how my mum should have handled things when my dad timed her supermarket trips and shouted at her if she took too long. And went through the receipt to make sure she hadn’t bought a single item for herself. When she got us a kitten which she knew would delight me and my brother (it was the best day ever!), my dad threatened to put it in a bag and run it over if she didn’t get rid of it (so the little kitten had to go 😢). His need to control everyone and everything. The shouting and fury and threats when she / we didn’t behave how he wanted. How then should she have dealt with all that? How much empathy did she need to give him? Did it matter that her life was miserable and frightening? Or is that just her not being empathetic enough???

How can these people call themselves a support group? Where is your emotional support? It disgusts me how much us partners are expected to tolerate in the name of autism awareness. Why aren’t we allowed to be angry and sad? Because being NT means you won the life lottery and therefore you must suck it all up and smile whilst you’re doing it? My mum did suck it up actually. And it killed her in the end. But I guess that doesn’t matter as she won the life lottery because she wasn’t the autistic one? What fucking rubbish! I’m furious for you.

And can anyone please explain this double empathy thing? I don’t really get it.

Hearing you say that is wonderful to hear! It really is. Yay for “old you”!!!! 🥳

I get it @MetooOP He sounds like a toddler throwing a tantrum. Odd to other people because it’s an adult doing it, not a child. But you know him best and if you say it’s more ridiculous than threatening then it’s your call. It does sound a bit alarming when described. But none of us know him.

My DP is abusive in that he shouts and has called me a cunt and told me to shut the fuck up. He is a large man with a loud voice and it’s very unpleasant. I’m not scared of him though. There is absolutely zero chance of him ever laying a hand on me. Ever. The description that @AccidentalTourism gave was horrific and I can see how those behaviours developed over time even though to begin with he seemed solid and safe if a little emotionally detached. I can see how other people might think you or I are potentially in a similar scenario, where the behaviours might actually deteriorate to the point of physical abuse. I know people are just being kind and worried. But in the same way I would stake my life on my DP never getting to that point, you feel the same about your DH. And like you, I won’t defend how awful DP’s behaviour can be. But it isn’t like that horrific man and never will be. (That said his behaviour, and that of your DH, is completely unacceptable at times).

I am not sure what this man adds to your life. Often your descriptions of things sound pretty dire. Perhaps that’s because when things are going well I guess there is less impetus to come on this supportive space and talk about the better bits. I hope there are some OK bits. Maybe you’re stuck financially. Maybe you don’t want him to parent the DC when you’re not there in a shared care arrangement. Whatever your reasons for staying, I get it. I know you didn’t find the support you desperately need from that “support” group (I’m still so annoyed for you!) but I hope coming here and having a space to just say words out loud (albeit written down) without any judgement or advice for you to change the way YOU interact with him as it’s not his fault (😡) is in some way helpful.

But hey, if you need some self care IRL, why not go for a nice walk?!!! 😉

@BustyLaRoux he is laying a hand on you though, he’s beating you up from the inside. Words cause wounds as much as any physical punches. Children hear the words and it affects them. I’ve been hit and I’ve been shouted and sworn at and I have to say the words have been more difficult to get over because you can’t see the damage until it’s at a critical level.

I would have sworn blind that by STBXH would never have been abusive, it was unthinkable and something that happened within other people's marriages but not my own.
I was sitting on a charity board that provided services to sexual assault and rape survivors as the abuse ramped up, and I STILL couldn't identify that I was a victim.

It took time and distance to realise that his behaviours were a constant undercurrent to a more or lesser extent depending on much things were going his way.

He grew progressively more unhappy with his life in the last few years, with more things in his life out of his control; sick parent, a forced move for our DS to attend a specialist college, my health, etc. That's when it tipped into abuse, resentment and revenge that he was no longer leading the life he wished.

The losing of myself, my needs, our DS's needs was gradual and subtle and I can see that reflected in many posts. Where the line of what was too much was impossible to see while I was in it. Where is the line for me now?

The line is no abuse. None, ever again.

If I ever experience a partner throwing things, screaming, hitting walls, stonewalling, gaslighting etc. in the future, I would leave in a heart beat. It is ALL unacceptable.

Oh I don’t deny that. Although our respective DC aren’t with us all the time and they are not party to his more choice moments thankfully! I think what I am saying, albeit badly, is that the behaviours are definitely abusive, but when people highlight the post by @AccidentalTourism and say “but this could be you one day”, it just doesn’t ring true. Not because of any boiled frogs. But because I know DP would never do anything like that. But I do not deny for one second that his behaviour is abusive. In fact, far worse than being shouted at that I am a cunt, was a couple of days later when I tried to tell him how his behaviour that day had made me feel. And his response was to say “typical you, Busty, making it all about YOU as you always do!!!” That was worse than anything. His astounding focus on himself and victim mentality as a response to being called out for his behaviours, are some of the hardest things I’ve ever had to deal with. THAT was what made me cry.

People are genuine and they mean well when they say LTB and you’re being abused and your children are being damaged etc., but it’s not always helpful and more than one poster on here has been alienated to the point they don’t seem to have come back. I am hopeful @MetooOP doesn’t feel judged for the way she feels. It didn’t sound to me like she was defending her DH’s abuse (though I understand why it might look that way), more that the comparison with @AccidentalTourism was not helpful to her. And she knows better than we do. And I wanted her to know that I completely understand! Seeing as the “support” group she attended was not exactly supportive!

Hopefully nothing I say is taken by you or anyone else as a criticism of anything they’ve said. Because I would never mean it that way. I know people are being helpful and kind and I am grateful to every single person who has ever taken the time to respond to me. But I also understand where metoo is coming from. Xx

And I completely understand your position.

I would worry that things become the new normal as we adjust to the world we find ourselves in. Sometimes like in my own case my childhood was a similar world that I was already used to so my marriage wasn’t all to different.

I totally get it @Rainbow03 . Boiled frog and all that. Someone said something a page back which really resonated. I’ll try and find it….

Not even boiled frog really as they behave in ways that are just normal from the beginning. My mum was controlling and aggressive so it was a familiar environment for me. It was my reality from birth so for people to say it’s not normal didn’t resonate with me.

I had one healthy relationship in my early 20s and I hated it, it was so boring. I was almost addicted to the highs and lows of unhealthy relationships.

This is very pertinent.

I have heard the expression “you have fleas” when you grew up in a toxic or abusive household. You lie down with narcissists and abusers snd you get up with their fleas. Sometimes it means that you pick up, unconsciously, some of their traits but I think we also get addicted to the smell and the confinement of the kennel. The calm certainty of a healthy adult relationship can feel dull.

Here we are! It was @SpecialMangeTout

I really don’t think it’s ‘us’ that are the problem.
I do think that what I (and most if us on this thread) are responsible about is staying. We’re struggling, sometimes putting up with extreme behaviour, and yet have made the decision to stay.
For me, the question I’m asking myself is more whether this decision of staying is the right one for me. Just now, in my current circumstances, the balance is tipping towards staying and making it work for BOTH OF US somehow. I’m very aware that the balance might well tip the other way very quickly.
What I don’t want to do is being in that in between stage (where I’ve spent a hell of a lot of time!) where I’m staying whilst being convinced that my best outcome was to be on my own. Where I was dreaming of one thing : being away.

This had me thinking that I don’t feel deluded. I know what he is. I have made my decision and it feels like the right decision now. I have to
commit to it. Otherwise being in limbo (“I’m here but I don’t want to be here” type of scenario) is actually really depressing. I don’t know what the future holds. But I am sure as hell it doesn’t involve sexual or physical violence. That doesn’t mean I underestimate the emotional abuse he subjects me to. It isn’t acceptable. I have to navigate that. I do the best I can. As we are all doing. The support here is incredible. Xxx

Yes sorry I meant the description @AccidentalTourism gave. And my experience too.

It’s the dissonance I believe taking hold. It’s a subconscious protective behaviour but it keeps us trapped in relationships because deep down we are afraid of the unknown. We have to fight this dissonance otherwise we do end up spending a lifetime in relationships we shouldn’t be in and surely that’s worse.

It’s just how my body and my brain grew, it grew to deal and survive in this world I was born. I realised I was hurtful myself and my children by adapting to my parents world and staying in it. It’s painful to look at yourself and see what you have done without knowing. But it is in the present where I try and live now and I speak very little to my family sadly as they live in a world I don’t like. Same like my ex and sometimes my new partner. There are parts of his world I don’t like but it has little effect on me and I don’t have to change myself. My mum is ASD and I don’t fit in her world, it’s too ridged and unkind and everyone must never make a mistake and we absolutely don’t talk about how we feel, I’m glad I don't live there anymore.

@BustyLaRoux I think there are two ‘ways’ of staying.

One is done out of fear - whatever that fear is. It’s basically putting feelings away right at the bottom of your pocket, put a handkerchief on the top and trying to ignore those feelings.
One is from a deep acceptance of how things are.

Ive done both.

Staying out of fear - for me both not cope financially and not being able to look after my dcs properly (and transform them into carers instead). I found plenty of good reasons. I’m concentrating on my health, once I’m more financially independent, once they’re both at Uni etc…. But the reality was a deep fear of failing.
What Ive learnt is that those feelings have a sneaky way to move their way to the top. Questioning whether staying was a wise decision was coming back all the time because of the hurt and anger.

And then me staying now which is in full acceptance of how dh is. I’m not trying to change him. I’m not hoping I’ll finally get X or Y. I’m not expecting anything from him.
I have changed though.
I’m not expecting support from him. I’m not expecting to take me and my needs into account. I’m not expecting we are a couple, partners. But rather two individuals living in the same house. Its not fully a marriage in my eyes. But he can’t give me more than that.
In turns, the hurt I felt, that I wasn’t seen, I wasn’t heard or understood disappeared too. Because I don’t expect that from him anymore.
It also means the level of stress have significantly dropped - no more ‘impossible’ (to him) expectations put on him. So he is easier to live with.
Basically both of those things means what felt like emotional abuse is gone.

Its worth noting that dh has been a lot of things but he has never shouted, hurl abuse at me, bang on walls, put me down or told me in no uncertain terms it’s all my fault etc… The most I get is those strange angry noises and some looks. Not great if you want to communicate (he really says very little) but it’s actually avoiding arguments too,
And I have and still am doing a lot of work on saying NO. Just NO and a Quick explanation (hard. I have a tendency to over explain too). As well as putting myself first and foremost (because dh won’t. In some ways it’s easier to do now that I’m seen each other as two individuals rather than a team).

What im trying to say it’s not ‘just’ taking a decision to stay so I’m not in limbo anymore (which I agree is awful to be in). It has been about reassessing the whole relationship, finding new ways to be around him AND deciding to stay (for now)