Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

999 replies

Daftasabroom · 09/10/2024 09:29

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 12 | Mumsnet

New thread. This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND o...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5121753-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-12?page=1

OP posts:
MetooOP · 14/11/2024 11:02

SpecialMangeTout · 14/11/2024 10:58

@MetooOP im really sorry the group isn’t helpful at all for you.
It seems much more geared towards parents rather than adults in a couple tbh.
(and there are things you can ask or even expect from a parent that wouldn’t be suitable to ask a partner imo)

Yeah that's how I feel. And everyone else's autistic person had such high anxiety and shutdown that they were not even managing normal life such as being able to hold down a job, have a social life or even go out of the house. That is not the issue with my H at all.

MetooOP · 14/11/2024 11:06

dh behave sound more and more closer to Accidental description of her dh. Someone who an ‘autistic abuser’ rather than just autistic

Sorry but I just cannot in any conscience, agree with this. I am the last person on earth who would defend him, but awful as he is, he is not this.

Rainbow03 · 14/11/2024 11:16

I had an argument with my partner yesterday, pointless argument where half way I just stopped after telling him “did you not consider my feelings in this”, of course he couldn’t. It was my youngest daughter’s birthday. I’d spend till 11pm the day before decorating and cleaning up as we had lots of visitors coming in all day. He got up first for about an hour I came downstairs to find he’d decided
to clean the oven, put it all in the guest bathroom covered in grease and stinking of oven cleaner. Emptied the pets cage all over the living room floor. Left out daughter to her own device’s so she got up and got chocolate spread and spread it all over the chairs and walls. WHY, why couldn’t he just sit and play with her for a bit. He then used the excuse he did all these things for me….really! So I lost it as I wasted my time the day before cleaning for guests and its was a shit hole. He had no comprehension of why I was upset!!!!

BustyLaRoux · 14/11/2024 11:48

MetooOP · 14/11/2024 08:59

Thanks @pikkumyy77 and @BustyLaRoux

That group has actually been on my mind and not in a good way. The other spouse was trying to be nice, and without going into too many details as I obviously don't want to share their story here, when I spoke they would counter with what their experience is in a way that made me feel like they were saying I had not understood my H well enough and really the behaviour was due to this, and this other outcome was possible. And bluntly, they were wrong. And whilst my rational brain knows that they were trying to be helpful and supportive by sharing, instead I felt unheard and like I was being portrayed as the crazy one who just was not kind or understanding enough. Which is a thing I am very sensitive too due to past Cassandra syndrome type experiences!

Anyway, feeling really despondent as if this is the focus of the support of the whole service it isn't going to help.

And the whole facilitation of the support group, perhaps unsurprisingly, seems infused with autism advocacy positivism, we were told we were only allowed to use positive language. I can't use positive language. I am filled with anger and misery and pain, not positivity.

My assessor said the service could not offer us support together, but I don't see how stand alone support will help my H, as he is unable to assess the reality of situations he is in.

I think @BustyLaRoux something like mediation would help but they don't offer this.

The facilitator said she would phone me, so I'll see if she does and talk to her.

Yes I could well imagine how some well meaning people basically trying to tell you that you need to manage your interactions better and be MORE supportive would not go down well. Sounds like a support group for carers rather than a support group for victims. I am sure you know your DH better than anyone and I am sure you do everything and more to try and manage your situation. But sometimes you want to scream “WHAT ABOUT ME???!!!!” And to be told it’s not about you, and please speak positively about your experience would tip me over the edge I think! I’m sorry this was your experience. It sounds shit!

MetooOP · 14/11/2024 12:15

But sometimes you want to scream “WHAT ABOUT ME???!!!!

EXACLTY THIS!!! As I looked through the booklet for the course this is EXACTLY what I thought.

Thanks so much for understanding! Your post sums up exactly how I felt!

MetooOP · 14/11/2024 12:16

My DH also brings the autism advocacy which I appreciate on the one hand but then everything about diagnosis is about impairment and I find it hard to hold those together

@FreshLaundry I have had this same thought too!

Vuurhoutjies · 14/11/2024 16:16

MetooOP · 14/11/2024 11:06

dh behave sound more and more closer to Accidental description of her dh. Someone who an ‘autistic abuser’ rather than just autistic

Sorry but I just cannot in any conscience, agree with this. I am the last person on earth who would defend him, but awful as he is, he is not this.

He has been punching and kicking walls and throwing a complete tantrum. This is abusive, violent behaviour. Yours does not sound like he's controlling in the same way re money etc, but the screaming, shouting, hitting, kicking IS abusive.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 14/11/2024 16:46

Vuurhoutjies · 14/11/2024 10:16

@MetooOP I really think you should read and absorb @AccidentalTourism 's post again. Your DH does appear to be moving beyond what might be considered "normal" autistic behaviour that requires support etc, into actual abuse. The kicking and punching of walls for example is a real worry for me and it makes me worry for you. It doesn't really matter if it's because he has ND or because of some other reason, the behaviour is not okay and is dangerous to you.

I feel silly even sharing this because it's so miniscule in comparison, but DH has suffered with anger management in the past. Again, I know see that as probably part of his ADHD. He had extensive therapy before we got married but when DS was about 2, it sort of started sneaking up and he picked up a chopping board one day and threw it at a doorway. It hit the door frame and dropped down to the floor. When he calmed down, I pointed out that DS had been in the lounge, and if he'd happened to walk through into the kitchen at that moment, he could have been hit by the chopping board. DH booked himself straight back into therapy and did the work he needed to ensure it never happened again. and it hasn't (he still sometimes goes OTT with anger - but nothing violent like this). Th epoint is that he was able to see his behaviour, while something he couldn't control at that moment, was completely not okay. And then find ways to manage it.

Thank you for sharing this, it's exactly the sort of thing my H might do and the main reason I told him I wanted to separate (which has now turned into some still kind of together whilst figuring out next step, which for me is still separation as can't see how things would change enough for me). Unlike your DH my H has not booked into therapy but is trying to help himself with yoga and exercises and I do wonder if some form of therapy is what he needs as he seems to get so frustrated with the world and snaps/scowls/stomps/hurls etc, like a petulant child! Would you say that therapy is what actually helped your DH with his emotional regulation? It sounds like he really took you seriously and worked hard to find ways to manage things better.

I don't think that I will tell H what he needs to do as he needs to make these choices himself if he really wants to find ways to manage his short fuse etc, but I did suggest a while back that therapy might help or that maybe he should ask GP/Mind Charity or something to which he says he wants to do marriage counselling. It's hard to relax and trust someone who is unpredictable in their moods and go from chirpy to rage in a blink of an eye! Not great for my nervous system at all.

BustyLaRoux · 14/11/2024 17:05

Rainbow03 · 14/11/2024 11:16

I had an argument with my partner yesterday, pointless argument where half way I just stopped after telling him “did you not consider my feelings in this”, of course he couldn’t. It was my youngest daughter’s birthday. I’d spend till 11pm the day before decorating and cleaning up as we had lots of visitors coming in all day. He got up first for about an hour I came downstairs to find he’d decided
to clean the oven, put it all in the guest bathroom covered in grease and stinking of oven cleaner. Emptied the pets cage all over the living room floor. Left out daughter to her own device’s so she got up and got chocolate spread and spread it all over the chairs and walls. WHY, why couldn’t he just sit and play with her for a bit. He then used the excuse he did all these things for me….really! So I lost it as I wasted my time the day before cleaning for guests and its was a shit hole. He had no comprehension of why I was upset!!!!

That sounds very annoying!!!

Vuurhoutjies · 14/11/2024 17:11

@ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore The thing with DH is complicated. We've talked on this thread before about how ND children often aren't parented well, especially if their ND isn't recognised. And in his case, I believe his mother's ADHD is off the charts bad but, of course, was also never recognised.

I mention this becuase of a couple of things.

  1. he was never taught emotional regulation in any form. Shortly after we moved in together, his mother was visiting us. He was having a complete meltdown/temper tantrum and being completely ridiculous about something. He was 100% in the wrong and I was refusing to agree that I was the problem. His mother said to me, "Vuur, just leave it - if you keep on he's just going to get more angry. It's better just to agree." Needless to say, it turns out these ilttle temper tantrums of his were treated this way since he was a child - he was indulged and given in to, because it was easier for his parents.
  1. A lot of things happened in his house growing up that I would consider borderline abuse or perhaps neglect. Not violence or emotional abuse. Things like OTT reactions from his parents when he behaved in certain ways. His mother having her own meltdowns that were, from all accounts, terrifying and scary for the children. He had excellent relationships with his grandparents, which was great, except that part of the reason for this relationship was because his parents were often emotionally, physically or practically absent and abdicated responsibility for him and his siblings to them. His father worked all hours, then had a nervous breakdown and clearly their marriage was, at best, indifferent but at worst toxic. Even when they finally divorced, that impacted DH in particular because of the way it was handled. Iroincally, DH is ALSO the golden child which is not, in fact, a good thing for him (any more than his sister being the scapegoat is helpful for her). There's also been huge issues with his brother which has created complicated emotions and responses in all of them.

I mention all of this becuase yes, the therapy really helped him. But there's no doubt that these meltdowns of his, and inability to self-regulate may well be exacerbated by what I believe is his ADHD, but there ewas a great deal that came as a result of his experiences. And of course, that's the part that therapy really focuses on.

The other thing about DH which I think is ineresting is that he's a very creative and empathetic person who is also very intelligent. He had a great deal of career success when younger which helped his confidence but also, I think, gave him the tools and the environment in which to grow and learn outside of his family - he was far from home, travelling a lot, meeting a huge variety of people and having a wide variety of experiences which, with his creativity, and empathy and intelligence allowed him to really grow as a person. Also, as it was in the arts, I think there's a lot of acceptance for people who are a little bit "different" which was helpful for him.

Together, this all means that he has a surprising ability to come at a problem, decide on a new solution, and act on it. Better than me in fact.

Sorry, that was insanely long. But I wanted to be honest and helpful, withou tnecessarily giving you false hope. I think that my DH has a fairly unusual combination of factors that have turned him into who he is today. Incidentally I am sort of friendly with an ex girlfriend of his from when he was at uni and shortly after. She is always discreet and lovely, and her and DH get on well now too, but reading between the lines, it is very clear to me that his behaviour towards her was 100% unacceptable and that if he'd stayed in that relationship, he would have turned into an emotionally abusive and controlling man, possibly even physically violent. A combination of the experiences he had as he got older, as well as how our relationship developed, which led to his willingness to engage with therapy and other things to help himself have made all the difference.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 14/11/2024 17:13

Thank you for sharing @AccidentalTourism it is inspiring to hear and I'm sorry to hear things got so bad. My first H turned violent on me before I left and although I used to think he had some sort of personality disorder I now think he may well have bern ND too.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 14/11/2024 17:17

@Vuurhoutjies thank you for explaining, yes that makes sense. Unfortunately I think H was raised in a similar way, FIL had massive tantrums which I would class as abusive, yet he'd be the most lovely cheerful person once he'd finished his episode/meltdown. H learnt that it was acceptable to behave like it and it is/was the norm. The reason I thought therapy might also be useful for him is to deal with what is probably some childhood trauma too. As well as finding ways to manage his temper, for DD, more than me as I can leave (and sort if have) but she will still be his daughter.

Vuurhoutjies · 14/11/2024 17:23

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 14/11/2024 17:17

@Vuurhoutjies thank you for explaining, yes that makes sense. Unfortunately I think H was raised in a similar way, FIL had massive tantrums which I would class as abusive, yet he'd be the most lovely cheerful person once he'd finished his episode/meltdown. H learnt that it was acceptable to behave like it and it is/was the norm. The reason I thought therapy might also be useful for him is to deal with what is probably some childhood trauma too. As well as finding ways to manage his temper, for DD, more than me as I can leave (and sort if have) but she will still be his daughter.

If he is willing to engage, I believe it would be helpful. I know DH found parts of it hard. Much more so than I did when I had some therapy in my 20s, most likely because he had a lot more to process and deal with. If you can get him to do it, I would highly highly recommend it.

Has he sorted the spare room yet? Are you happily ensconsed there yet?

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 14/11/2024 18:09

Vuurhoutjies · 14/11/2024 17:23

If he is willing to engage, I believe it would be helpful. I know DH found parts of it hard. Much more so than I did when I had some therapy in my 20s, most likely because he had a lot more to process and deal with. If you can get him to do it, I would highly highly recommend it.

Has he sorted the spare room yet? Are you happily ensconsed there yet?

The room is lovely now thank you, freshly painted and I've managed to get nearly all of his things out and mine in. It's very tidy, smells great, and I have a nice comfy armchair to relax in. It's definitely lifted my spirits!

FreshLaundry · 14/11/2024 18:49

That’s so great @ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore! Ivan just imagine it, I’m so glad it makes you feel good.

@Vuurhoutjies my DH sounds similar to yours in career. Also a similar ability to reflect and in time to grow.

FreshLaundry · 14/11/2024 18:50

(By time, I mean like a decade unfortunately!)

SpecialMangeTout · 14/11/2024 18:55

MetooOP · 14/11/2024 11:06

dh behave sound more and more closer to Accidental description of her dh. Someone who an ‘autistic abuser’ rather than just autistic

Sorry but I just cannot in any conscience, agree with this. I am the last person on earth who would defend him, but awful as he is, he is not this.

Sorry somehow missed pressing SEND before leaving the page ….

Fair enough.
You know your DH and I’ve never met him so it can be hard to distinguish between the two I think.

I think it hits maybe a bit too close to home for me.
My dad is NT but has massive childhood trauma. He used and still fly off the handle at the slightest thing. Sometimes you can’t even say what it is about (eg we’re having a conversation he isn’t involved in).
I didn’t realise how much it affected me until I also realise I still flinch when dh starts ‘his weird noises’ and getting angry.
Your posts make me want to scoop you and your dcs to protect you

Obviously, my problem not yours!!!

SpecialMangeTout · 14/11/2024 19:37

WHAT ABOUT ME?!? Is a question I’ve asked myself a lot.
My take on that is

  • a lot of the interventions re autism have been done on children rather than adukts. And adults, aka parents, are expected to put themselves second to their child. They’re expected to do all the work. To change, adapt, understand. Even when it’s hard etc… Plenty of threads on MN showing exactly that with teenagers or young adults are are violent, threatening etc… Obviously with adults in a couple, esp when you talk about people that are ‘high functioning’, aka they can still hold a job, live etc… its not appropriate. But it’s not being recognised because they’re expected to be a parent (NT) to a child (ASD).
  • I understand a lot of the advocacy work that is been done. I get that constantly been told you’re doing things wrong is hard to live with. So is feeling not really integrated and/or accepted. But I found a lot of that work reflecting a victim and/or martyr attitude I can see in dh (and many other ASD folks). So you very much end up with a ‘poor me, look you’re not making any or enough effort to adjust to us’ rather than finding solutions together. And no realisation of the impact on the NT person either.
  • Yes the social model of disability talks a lot about barriers being put in the way of disabled people by society. And adjusting to ASD issues can be part of that. But there is very little recognition that some issues (physical or emotional, ND etc…) simply cannot be overcome by adjusting the environment. I think it’s doing a disservice to both ASD and NT tbh. Because accepting that some things can’t be managed by managing the environment would also mean the ability to find ways to handle the issues that can’t be overcome.
So yes, basically it’s a whole system completely centered around the needs of autistic people with no interest in the NT, because they are somehow seen as ‘able to change, cope and adapt’. Well we don’t always. And we have needs that should be recognised, and met too.
FreshLaundry · 14/11/2024 20:22

I agree, I’ve spent a lot of time on ‘what about me’ too. There’s an element of martyrdom on my part but a big chunk is inconsistently having my needs met and being on the receiving end of behaviour I don’t understand. I think you’re spot on about the limits of accommodating also in romantic relationships in particular.

BustyLaRoux · 14/11/2024 20:43

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 14/11/2024 18:09

The room is lovely now thank you, freshly painted and I've managed to get nearly all of his things out and mine in. It's very tidy, smells great, and I have a nice comfy armchair to relax in. It's definitely lifted my spirits!

Oh that is good news!!! One cannot underestimate the benefit of having one’s own space! And it being all fresh and clean and newly decorated is the icing on the cake. Small wins. They can make a big difference to how you feel. It’s not the end game, but it’s good for now.

I retreat to my DS’s room when he isn’t here. It’s heaven. DP and his noisy DC can cook all the smelly disgusting meat they want and stay up late watching loud sci-fi on the TV. And I can’t hear or smell a thing up there in the loft. The mattress is super comfy. I have my own loo. I can listen to the sound of the rain on the roof. I feel so calm and unoppressed. I take my laptop up there and I don’t come downstairs all evening.

I am so pleased for you. Xxx

Rainbow03 · 14/11/2024 21:13

I wonder if it’s just the case we have got ourselves into difficult ND relationships,
ones that really don’t work just like there as many NT ones that don’t work and there are actually many really positive ones. We could be in other ND relationships that are really great and we making it a ND issue when it’s actually just a not working relationship. We could be focusing on the ND when it’s not that, it could just be the person. If that makes sense.

Daftasabroom · 14/11/2024 23:36

@Rainbow03 and how many of us are in ND/ND relationships? I changed the intro to the thread as this was becoming increasingly common, particularly the ADHD/ASD combo. Is it codependency? Blind optimism and enthusiasm? Are we just so used to being mistreated it's our "normal '?

Yesterday's comments re double empathy, today's comments re superficiality.

It's hard to grasp just how differently our partners, and for many of us our kids as well, experience the world.

We talk about "not being seen ", and it's not just the big stuff. On Tuesday I had a really proper haircut, DW didn't notice and still hasn't. It's silly, it doesn't matter at all, but it really demonstrates a profound difference in experiencing.

OP posts:
BustyLaRoux · 15/11/2024 07:10

Rainbow03 · 14/11/2024 21:13

I wonder if it’s just the case we have got ourselves into difficult ND relationships,
ones that really don’t work just like there as many NT ones that don’t work and there are actually many really positive ones. We could be in other ND relationships that are really great and we making it a ND issue when it’s actually just a not working relationship. We could be focusing on the ND when it’s not that, it could just be the person. If that makes sense.

I think you make an excellent point there @Rainbow03 !

Rainbow03 · 15/11/2024 07:15

@Daftasabroom I think what I was trying to say was that people are looking at the Neurodiversity and how to help with that and if that changed then things would be better. But what if it’s not the ND that’s the issue and it’s just that the person isn’t nice it isn’t right for them. They could meet another with a Neurodiversity and they be a great fit. Why do we blame the neurodiversity when there are loads of positive relationships but they don’t post. Is the issue infact us? I hope that makes sense. Is there loads of relationships that work?

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 15/11/2024 07:25

BustyLaRoux · 14/11/2024 20:43

Oh that is good news!!! One cannot underestimate the benefit of having one’s own space! And it being all fresh and clean and newly decorated is the icing on the cake. Small wins. They can make a big difference to how you feel. It’s not the end game, but it’s good for now.

I retreat to my DS’s room when he isn’t here. It’s heaven. DP and his noisy DC can cook all the smelly disgusting meat they want and stay up late watching loud sci-fi on the TV. And I can’t hear or smell a thing up there in the loft. The mattress is super comfy. I have my own loo. I can listen to the sound of the rain on the roof. I feel so calm and unoppressed. I take my laptop up there and I don’t come downstairs all evening.

I am so pleased for you. Xxx

Thank you @BustyLaRoux 😊 Your DC's room sounds absolutely lovely and must be a real lifeline and a space ro escpae to for some peace xx