Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 13

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

I realised this at 50 🙈

@LivLuna oh I'm sorry. I hope it will kickstart him getting he right help.

@LivLuna that sounds really stressful. Hope you both have the support you each need.

I had the first session of the group session thing from the autism service. Not sure its for me. There is one spouse there and the others are parents. The booklet about the course does not seem to really reflect my H or our situation. I said this at the start and that I was no longer even sure if H had autism or had narcissism or both. And then in the discussion the other people's experiences didn't reflect H or me. They talked about autistic shut downs, high anxiety and not being able to go out or quitting work due to autistic anxiety and overwhelm and masking and things H just does not have. The counsellor talked about 'double empathy' that autistic people have looking like lack of empathy but H certainly does not have that. Its really not that he is trying so hard to empathise he is overwhelmed and it looks like lack of empathy. It really, really is not that with him! The other spouse was trying to be nice I think and try to draw parallels with his situation and mine but they didn't really seem the same to me. I just felt like the outsider there, and its a huge investment of time for me and I don't think I will learn anything from it that applies to us really.

Sorry the group isn’t working out. I think you sound like you have quickly sussed that out so don’t feel bad about dropping it. I still think it was useful to go because you have learned that this model doesn’t fit his behavior—and so isn’t useful to you. Its a bit like doing the “differential” in medical diagnosis. You are eliminating things from your formulation.

@MetooOP there’s no point going if you aren’t getting any actual support from it. I think about you often. I wish there was something that would make things more bearable. The support group is obviously not it. Sometimes with DP I wish we had a mediator. Not a counsellor (as they can be easily duped I’ve learnt), but a mediator who will referee the discussion (so wall thumping and odd noises disallowed!), and determine a fair outcome. DP is often able to readily accept things from a third party that will just evoke anger or dismissal if I say them. At least if a third party says “I have listened to you both and DP’s position is not reasonable”, he would accept that. He might not like it. But if I said he’s not being reasonable he just shouts at me or says I’m wrong and dismisses me. Would mediation help in any way? Would he listen if someone gently said “it’s reasonable to turn the office into a bedroom for your child. I hear that you don’t like your things being moved, but that should not take precedence over your child’s basic need for a room of their own”. Would he accept that?

I am clutching at straws perhaps. Does a service like this even exist? I often find myself thinking we don’t need therapy. I need someone to back me up and tell DP he is being awful!!

I've been lurking on this board for at least 4 years without having the bravery to comment.

I left my marriage to a man with undiagnosed but clear ASD 3 years ago. We were married 28 years, together 38 years. I have diagnosed ADHD and we have an adult DS with diagnosed Autism and ADHD that now lives with me.

My STBXH was always a stoic, steady man and as I came straight from an abusive family he felt safe and reliable to me.
He had no emotional intelligence but was practical and laid back when life was going his way. Yet he was always controlling but I was able to continuously fight his need for control. I always felt that when he capitulated to mine or our DS's needs he was doing it for a quiet life rather than because he 'got it'.

As he got older he became less and less flexible, until we were truly caught in an abusive marriage when neither me or our DS's needs were heard or respected. The last year we were together he had total control of everything we did or said, the last month he allowed me to keep £80 of my earnings to feed me and our DS. We went onto liquid food to be able to have something in our bellies. In that last year I lost 20 kilos through trauma and lack of access to food.

At that point I came back to this board and read an article linked, written by a psychotherapist treating mainly women married to men with ASD and it was like reading my own story.

By the time the police got involved, they found hidden cameras around the house and an axe by his side of our marital bed. There was coercive control, violence and rape in that last year as his need for control consumed him. He infantilised me and I lost all sense of who I was.

Leaving him was truly the best decision I ever made, I relish my freedom and feel entirely unencumbered by his needs for the first time in decades. The last year we were together left me with PTSD which I struggle with enormously.

After I left, the sense of freedom was overwhelming and I was like a toddler learning everything for the first time, realising that despite what he had told I could be a successful adult negotiating life by myself and thriving.

Through sheer grit and no money (he had cleared it all out, including our DS's savings) I have gradually rebuilt myself and now have a successful six figure business. I'm so ridiculously proud of myself, rebuilding and redefining myself as a capable woman that can overcome abuse.

Our DS has also thrived and no longer treats me the same way as my STBXH, which is a huge relief. We are so ridiculously happy and contented.

Hopefully our divorce will finalise soon after 3 years of stonewalling and continuing attempts to control me, our finances and our DS.

I've wanted to share my story on this board, with full awareness that my journey may be different to others and that all our stories are different but on a theme, so I hope you don't mind me sharing my story finally. I know that not all men with ASD become abusive and for many years my STBXH was a good husband.

Thanks for all you've done on this board, it's been life changing and is so appreciated.

Wow! Thank you do much for sharing that!

Thanks. I've tried many times to share on this board but chickened out each time, it's taken me 3 years but I finally did it!

And wow @AccidentalTourism are we glad you did! Please stay. You have given me so much strength by posting. Thank you. Thank you.

That's kind of you to say.

Leaving and rediscovering myself has been the hardest and most exhilarating ride of my life. I have soared and in amongst the residual trauma, anxieties and over-working I have many moments of pure joy. I inhabit and fill my own space and have grown beyond measure.

I've realised that I will always be drawn to ND men because I'm ND myself. I've also realised that I can't yet separate out the ASD from the abuse because it was inextricably merged. That means I can't yet protect myself from harm but I'm a work in progress.

Thank you @AccidentalTourism for sharing your deeply personal story with us. I dream and imagine what a life without 'all this' would be like. Hearing from someone on the other side is so important for a lot of us. Going through what you when through to get there sounds like hell on a hot day, but you got there. Enjoy your life, you so deserve it🦋

Thank you for your kind words. It means a lot and I will be eternally grateful for this board and all the posters on it for getting me through the hardest time of my life, when things were too hard to write.

@AccidentalTourism 🌳s are more permanent than 💐

Well done, that's incredibly uplifting.

@AccidentalTourism What an incredible story. What really really resonated for me having only recently joined this thread and still learning the stories of some of the women on here is that you are so clear about the juxtaposition of the ASD and the abuse and how the two are entwined. I think there are a number of women on here who have a similar challenge - separating abusive behaviour from the ND behaviour. Its so incredibly difficult when you have empathy for the person, even as they treat you appalingly.

Thanks @pikkumyy77 and @BustyLaRoux

That group has actually been on my mind and not in a good way. The other spouse was trying to be nice, and without going into too many details as I obviously don't want to share their story here, when I spoke they would counter with what their experience is in a way that made me feel like they were saying I had not understood my H well enough and really the behaviour was due to this, and this other outcome was possible. And bluntly, they were wrong. And whilst my rational brain knows that they were trying to be helpful and supportive by sharing, instead I felt unheard and like I was being portrayed as the crazy one who just was not kind or understanding enough. Which is a thing I am very sensitive too due to past Cassandra syndrome type experiences!

Anyway, feeling really despondent as if this is the focus of the support of the whole service it isn't going to help.

And the whole facilitation of the support group, perhaps unsurprisingly, seems infused with autism advocacy positivism, we were told we were only allowed to use positive language. I can't use positive language. I am filled with anger and misery and pain, not positivity.

My assessor said the service could not offer us support together, but I don't see how stand alone support will help my H, as he is unable to assess the reality of situations he is in.

I think @BustyLaRoux something like mediation would help but they don't offer this.

The facilitator said she would phone me, so I'll see if she does and talk to her.

@MetooOP I guess the issue is that nobody can make us like someone who is just someone we don’t like doing and behaving in ways we don’t like. I’ve had a similar feeling about a family member lately who I suspect has ASD. I’ve tried to like them I really have. I’ve tried to be understanding because I get that everyone is different. I can’t change the way I come at relationships and the way I communicate. I can’t change the way I perceive things because it’s all out of my control. I can’t force a relationship and make the other person behave in a way that reflects the way I want a relationship to be. I have to take it as it is and that is that this relationship isn’t working. I’d like to have a relationship but it would have to be on this persons terms as they aren’t flexible in the way they form and control relationships and I can’t do this without loosing who I am.

Jesus @AccidentalTourism I am so profoundly sorry you were put through that abuse 💐. Congratulations on your hard-won peace and business success. Your writing about growth and contentment was really joyful to read. Thank you so much for sharing.

@MetooOP that sounds quite toxic tbh, if you’re not really ‘allowed’ to feel your feelings. Being constantly reframed is so damaging. I wonder what the facilitator will say? My DH also brings the autism advocacy which I appreciate on the one hand but then everything about diagnosis is about impairment and I find it hard to hold those together.

@MetooOP I really think you should read and absorb @AccidentalTourism 's post again. Your DH does appear to be moving beyond what might be considered "normal" autistic behaviour that requires support etc, into actual abuse. The kicking and punching of walls for example is a real worry for me and it makes me worry for you. It doesn't really matter if it's because he has ND or because of some other reason, the behaviour is not okay and is dangerous to you.

I feel silly even sharing this because it's so miniscule in comparison, but DH has suffered with anger management in the past. Again, I know see that as probably part of his ADHD. He had extensive therapy before we got married but when DS was about 2, it sort of started sneaking up and he picked up a chopping board one day and threw it at a doorway. It hit the door frame and dropped down to the floor. When he calmed down, I pointed out that DS had been in the lounge, and if he'd happened to walk through into the kitchen at that moment, he could have been hit by the chopping board. DH booked himself straight back into therapy and did the work he needed to ensure it never happened again. and it hasn't (he still sometimes goes OTT with anger - but nothing violent like this). Th epoint is that he was able to see his behaviour, while something he couldn't control at that moment, was completely not okay. And then find ways to manage it.

Exactly we are not responsible for the other persons lack of emotional control. We can be compassionate to an extent. My ex threw a lot of things but continued down the line of you made me angry so you need to be the one who changes and for a long time I look that on board. He could not link his anger to himself. My daughter is like this and is awful at the moment because she has no self regulation. I think if your partner self refers for therapy that takes an awful lot of awareness and is really positive. Difficult but at least it’s an acknowledgment that it’s not you.

I gave up on a relationship with my H a long time ago. I just want him to stop shouting at the kids and to co-operate to help get the basic work of running a household done.

I don't really have a choice of saying, 'I don't like you. I'm just cutting you out of my life.' Because we have young kids. He is in my life because of that. Even if I did leave, some basic cooperation in co-parenting would still be enormously advantageous to all of us.

And I know people on here often say, 'Well people are different and its okay for two people who are different to not work together.', but the thing is, H's autism is not working for him either. He is utterly miserable and desperate for a happy family, a happy family life and happy relationship with me. We used to be really, really happy together. We used to love and like each other. When there is no conflict, which is practically never now, we get on really well and make each other laugh. We have a lot in common.

My H has only been diagnosed for about two years. If someone could make him see that his unhappiness is resulting from some of the unhelpful patterns due to his autism, and that he can consciously put some strategies in place to limit the impact of that in his family life, then maybe things could get better.

I was hoping the autism service could help with that. Maybe they can't as they don't work like that, maybe they can't because H's expression of autism means he can never get to that end game. But I thought it was worth a try.

I realise now that my H is only able to have very superficial relationships with people, but his is capable of successful superficial relationships. I could never have a romantic relationship with him again as I know I can never really exist to him, as there's no coming back from that really, is there? But I'd take something that was superficial and co-operative.

@AccidentalTourism wow what a story of courage and bravery.
Thank you for sharing with us.

I think it’s also a reminder that autism CAN fall into being abusive. It’s not all being positive and accepting etc… it’s not all about making adjustments and how disability is about society not adjusting to the varying needs of (disabled) people.
And I agree that it can be impossible to separate what is purely autistic and what is abusive as they can be so enmeshed with each other.

@MetooOP the way your and @BustyLaRoux dh behave sound more and more closer to Accidental description of her dh. Someone who an ‘autistic abuser’ rather than just autistic.

I really think you should read and absorb 's post again

Just read it. Sorry, I really don't think that is my H.

I can’t co-parent with my ex either because I can’t get past his automatic responses. I gave up a long time ago and I’m just waiting it out until our daughter is old enough we don’t need to communicate. I can’t communicate with him at all and he doesn’t and I don’t think will ever have the ability to communicate properly, it’s not my issue anymore to fix. My ex is also superficially successful and that’s were it stops, try and get deeper and that’s when he gets angry. I couldn’t live like that and you are right they will never see you, all those complex little parts that make us who we are. We got put into a logical box and loose ourselves. I couldn’t believe after I left him and it’s 5 years now just how much bigger I am. I’m so complicated even to myself as I’ve been squashed in a box for so long. Little things make me so happy, little things that are of no importance to them.

@MetooOP im really sorry the group isn’t helpful at all for you.
It seems much more geared towards parents rather than adults in a couple tbh.
(and there are things you can ask or even expect from a parent that wouldn’t be suitable to ask a partner imo)