October 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"
I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:
"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".
Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

@binkie163 I understand but would you do that to your own children, enforcing a belief that they carry forever that they are weak and needy when in actual fact they were normal. I suppose I know to not approach her in this way anymore so we have a superficial relationship but I carry this belief that I am weak for having emotions. As a child I didn’t know she was autistic I took it on board that the issue was me.

I thought that in relationships there has to be an acceptance on both sides not just one side saying accept me or go away.

Does anyone else feel so awkward in this type of no man’s land between people pleaser and independent thinker? I think that is where I’m stuck at the moment. I feel selfish and I am being labeled selfish because I’m trying to leave the train. There is no reward on the train I’m getting on and I suppose it’s like an addiction, it’s difficult carrying on when there is no reward. But there really is a massive reward in that I don’t carry this nonsense onto my kids. From the outside I can really see the toxicity in people pleasing. They are expecting a treat in return. When it doesn’t work they either get mean or shy away wondering what’s wrong with me, why didn’t it work, why don’t they like me when I sacrificed myself for a return.

Hey all a while since I posted. Coming up to a year nextmonth of cutting my mum off. I still feel so hurt and betrayed by her but also hurt and betrayed by everyone who has believed her and sided with her. My sister is the exception and we keep in touch but she is the other side of the world. I go between thinking how lonely it must be for my son but by the same token it is healthier for him not to be around people that lie or believe lies about me and my parenting of him. Im also angry that we have nobody really family wise around us although we do have a great support network of friends but it just seems so hurtful that we are alone just the two of us because my mother is a a destructive lying manipulative bitch. My son has not seen either her or her husband since I thin around Feb this year. He was once so close to them. Just sucks and on top fthat neither my mother or my brother ever contact my son at all. He wished them both happy birthday via text and did not even get acknowledged and he is a 14 year old child who has done nothing wrong. Guess it is the time of year you see families out and about and we dont have that and never will now. Why someone would do this to their own family is bizarre to me and I know it is for the best cutting her out but it still hurts.

Sorry more of a vent than anything. I will have to set aside time to read back. Hope you are all doing ok. Wishing everyone strength and love x

Me! Me too!

Sorry to crash in I am just so terribly sad today.

Not much to report but I sent my sister a text about an article I saw on babies in the NICU. I didn't say much except that it made me think of her. Her's was in the NICU and I know she suffered - the worst suffering of all, your own child - and I know we let her down horribly.

She didn't reply which is both a relief and plaguing me.

I can access a lot of empathy for her but it just doesn't seem to be enough. It doesn't stop her hurting me, or me hurting her.

I think she was left to parent me to an extent - because my parents were a bit witless - and that was a poor basis for mature cooperation when we both had kids.

I feel like I'm ready to look at myself and my mistakes and try to make amends, but I need her to do the same. The fragile sense of reality many of us talk about on here makes it hard for me to know if that is really true and right.

it's not very dramatic but f--- its painful.

I also find my reality hard to really cement because of the gaslighting of others and what I’ve done to myself. It’s really brave to look at oneself but I don’t think we can expect this of others. Who knows the walls they’ve built to survive their reality, we are all so different. Some people I don’t think will ever be able to do what we have done. Perhaps they are permanently changed. It takes a really strong person to accept responsibility but to also forgive themselves and look to build bridges and forgive others.

TorroFerney the issue I see with the "why" is a lot of the time I think it comes from the subconscious desire to change the other person and that's unhealthy. Not that we necessarily know that, when everyone around us is trying to change us into what they want us to be - and they're acting like it's normal to do that. That's what we grow up with. Sometimes leading to trying to do the same to them, not necessarily out of a desire to control, but as a way of attempting to manage their behaviour so we can avoid the negative effects on us of being controlled by them. It's very toxic, but understandable if you know no other way of doing things. The first step to walking away is to realise that's even an option, sometimes it needs therapy to do that and get past all the "I can't because xyz".

In general the problem with trying to get someone to change is not realising that the other person doesn't want to and has no intention of changing, regardless of how much hurt they're causing.

Thinking we'll be able to change our own behaviour to avoid the negative effects of theirs has two problems. First - it's the very definition of being controlled. Second - if some of these people want us hurt, or at least want a visible reaction of some kind from us, they're not going to stop doing whatever they're doing no matter how we behave. There is no appeasing them. They're just going to carry out their behaviour more often, more severely or do it differently but just as bad - because they want that reaction, so it's a situation you can never win.

It's exactly why people on MN who pick up that an OP is in an abusive relationship jump straight to LTB, because those with the right knowledge know that there's no other way, nothing the OP can do to move forward in happiness that doesn't involve getting rid of the cause of her misery ie her H. It's no different with family, it just feels harder to do and is more difficult to understand why we need to. Unlike the H, who was probably nice enough at first and who we know we lived without before we met him, our family has been toxic since we were a small child and we're genetically programmed to love them and disapproved of by society if we don't.

Happyfarm if you can afford it, I'd take that question of are you being childish and having unrealistic expectations to a therapist to unpick, it's exactly the kind of stuff they can help with. I get where you're coming from. You could just accept your mum doesn't have capacity, for whatever reason, to offer emotional support. Is it just that though, like she moves the conversation on without offering support or is she actively being negative in some way? That's what would make the difference for me.

It's ok if you choose to only have relationships with people who can offer emotional support sometimes, too. That's entirely up to you. If your choices make you unhappy though, eg if nobody will maintain a relationship with you due to the amount of emotional support you need, then it's become a "you" problem.

I thought that in relationships there has to be an acceptance on both sides not just one side saying accept me or go away.

Depends what you mean by it.
"Accept me as I am or you go away" puts the responsibility for your emotions onto the other person. You can't make them go away if they don't want to cut ties because they want a relationship with you, they're not going to choose that option.
"Accept me as I am or I will go away" is taking responsibility for your own emotions and taking control of your life.

@SamAndAnnie what I was trying to say was hasn’t there got to be a scope for a little movement in relationships. If someone is coming to you and telling you that something you do is hurting them don’t you kind of have to evaluate what you are doing? I guess decent people can do that. If they don’t do anything about it then you have to be the one to walk away. My ex partner was take me
or leave me you met me like this so what’s your problem person. Some issues don’t present initially. He used to go on the attack when I approached him and I was the one who backed down. I think I’ve spent a long time living by putting the responsibility of my emotions onto others and in relationships with people who do the same…I guess that’s the definition of co-dependant?

It is so hard to walk from something you so desperately want.

Bless you, for replying, Happyfarm. I just want to keep the relationships and am prepared to take a bit of flak if it's within reason and I am strong enough. Flak, conflict, tension is part of normal relationships. I'm stuck over what a lot of us are stuck over - am I imagining it all? Maybe I'm just too frail for the normal cut and thrust of family life?

I'm 52. I started to realise my family was dyfunctional in my 30s, but it reall blew up in my 50th year. it feels like would it have happened so late if that's what we really were? It must be a misunderstanding.

It's all so mysterious. So incomprehensible. And the stakes are so high. I'm going to be perpetually bereaved if this really goes all the way.

Hugs to everyone going through this shit too.

@almondmilk123 I think that is definitely what all of us are struggling with. In my case on the outside it looks amazing, what anyone would ever want. The mum who in charge has everything and is in control of all the characters in her life, who is in and who is out. When you are out you want to be in, to have what they have but to have what they have you have to play a role and I don’t do that! Im not missed and they don’t give me a seconds thought as they all have what they need. I’m pretty sure it’s not meant to be this hard. It is like you say so bloody mysterious. I can’t do mysterious relationships, I get so confused. And yeah the stakes are high, it’s pass into family life or it’s out on your own.

@happyfarm I do get what you say about being a people pleaser but an independent thinker. I'm an Indian, a follower, I like to go behind others, but it's just not working because I can't go where they go. I have to be myself and it's not this glorious thing happy ending, it's bloody hard being yourself. And it seem so over the top that it means estrangement. But here we are. You seem to have to carry on with uneasy contact because your DH is not where you're at in terms of seeing the dynamics.

That is exactly how I feel. I don’t win either way, there is no happy ending. I wonder if that is the child in me, thinking in very black and white terms. Perhaps this is how life actually is, it’s difficult, it’s complicated and there is no amazing happy place but a place of mere acceptance. It’s sad really that being ourselves means we are on our own. It’s a difficult decision to make because I don’t want to personally be on my own. This sucks!!!!!

@Genuineweddingone i feel the same hurt and betrayed by dm and by dsis and everyone who believes dsis and has taken her side

I have my own little family but I feel sad me and dc are not part of dm and dsister lives anymore. I am probably more sensitive to this as we had an awful year of 5 sudden unexpected deaths so know how short life can be and you never know what can happen when it might be the last time you see or speak to someone so it's really hurtful that in the middle of this chose to block us

ive posted here before and often received great advice and I need help again.

a timeline of what’s been going on is below. It’s worth saying I’m a classic black sheep. This behaviour has been going on for years. My parents divorced when I was a toddler and both remarried and had other children. I have a distant relationship with my dad. My mum HATES him. She also treats my sibling (their bio child) like a god! They can do no wrong.

jan: my mum and stepdad were really horrible to me. They were drunk and they did not hold back. Basically they hate my husband of 10 years. They made a series of very intrusive remarks from saying I’m fat to criticising my children. They think I’m “common” and I just don’t fit their standard. I don’t earn enough and I’m a disappointment to her. I text my mum the next day and confronted her, I was really proud of myself for standing up. However it’s been a disaster since.

summer: relations have been very frosty. I was having quite a bad personal time and just kept myself to myself. I tried doing the grey rock thing and basically just was very very quiet, sometimes not seeing them for weeks. There was another brief argument where I told my mother I was upset with some of her behaviour. .

september: I was confronted by my siblings. They made out that I was mentally unwell as I’d not been myself lately. It was an extremely uncomfortable argument where one of them let themselves into my house to shout at me and one sibling accused me of being a terrible parent. As I mentioned I’d been through a very difficult personal time so I did seek therapy and go on anti depressants. they confronted my husband too and although I wasn’t there for that he says they were awful to him.

it’s been frosty since.

I recently got talking to my mum and she feels sad it’s gone frosty but as always it turned into me having to hear how crap I am.

I asked for specific evidence this time and she was unable to provide.

“you’ve not been right for several years”
me: ok. How do you mean? Tell me how exactly?
“well you’ve just been not yourself”

“some of the things you said are extremely hurtful to me”
me: show me the texts? Get them out now and show me?
“I’ll show you later”
me “was it the text message I sent where I asked you to stop having intrusive comments on my life eg I’m fat, my husband is a dick?”
“yes that’s one of them”

for the first time in my life, I’m not going there for Christmas. She’s majorly annoyed about that.

I know they hate my husband. they’ve hated every boyfriend I’ve ever had. They think I can do better. And boy do they tell me.

our most recent conversation ended by her saying I needed to be “normal” with my siblings. And then she bitched about how crap my husband is picking a few faults “he’s not good at diy”

and finally she told me my son wasn’t a real man because he doesn’t want to play rugby 🤣

I just can’t do this anymore.

summary: I’ve been deliberately retreating from them (quiet on chat group, not going over, not telling them bits of news, not sending photos of kids) to protect my mental health and they think my husband has changed me and I’m mentally unwell 🤣

help!!!!! We all live in same bloody village so that does not help.

I’m not good for advice, just solidarity. Your situation sounds very similar to my sisters with the exception that we (siblings) all have her back. She has also distanced herself but lives very close to them. She is also being labelled as the one who has changed and with the partner that is part of the problem.

And she has changed, brilliantly so. She is leaning to not prioritise their needs ahead of her own, she is establishing boundaries and supporting her partner. I’m so immensely proud of her right now.

My theory re her partner is that him being in the scene makes her less available to serve their needs and that he is defo someone who will call out their behaviour. So it’s a bad thing in their eyes. I wonder if there is something in that for you.

My mother is having a massive narcissistic meltdown right now and I’m not quite ready to talk about it. I checked in on this thread to remind myself that I’m not alone.

waves I still lurk on this board.

My parents - 5 minutes away stopped talking to me in 2021 after I relocated to be near them with my children at their request.

Well we can fast forward 4 years. Very very different here. I know your pain when you live local but I promise you NC is easier. Much easier. So consider it. Not LC but NC. Change your locks. Get a ring doorbell and just block them all and say ‘No. stop contacting me. Contact me again and I will report you to the police for harassment’. The first two years were hard it’s not anymore. I live 5 minutes away and about to buy a house (they told me I would never be able to buy a house here as I could never afford it and this is a nice area). Well I am. I’m getting married. They won’t be coming. I don’t even think about them any more. Neither do they kids. Just stop talking to them.

These situations have no easy answer - only NC is clean and neat, and that's no doubt why so many people who've done it recommend it.

The worst point is the debate over whether or not to give up hope and take that NC pill, and or to keep trying.

Some of us get stuck in that debate. I'm totally, agonisingly stuck there.

I can't say what you should do, but sometimes it has its own logic. If you have changed and they won't, then it goes where it goes.

It's like a divorce, perhaps, painful but necessary.

For what it's worth, they sound abusive and like they are overwhelmed by their own demons. Drinking and attacking you - that's really toxic.

it's brilliant that you've had therapy and taken antidepressants. It means you're for growth.

They aren't. That has consequences.

Same village... Can you move?

Feeling so sad today. Hugs to everyone dealing with this shit.

Still a longtime lurker, and I still do not feel like I can comfortably post; I feel too exposed if that makes any sense?

I feel for everyone on here, I really do and some of what I read on the stately homes threads breaks my heart. I had a turbulent childhood, my father being an increadibly angry man and being very easy to anger with no reasoning with him and no real way to make him listen (lots of getting in trouble as a child for things I had never even done, and being punished as a result and that has had a serious impact on me as a teen and an adult), my mother was/is the peace keeper, she knew he was in the wrong but to keep the peace would say nothing yet when he wasn't in earshot she would admit she knew he was wrong.

My mother was the youngest of 6 children and was a cinderella, always the one that did for my grandparents and bore the brunt of problems caused by her siblings and was also herself, like me, always in trouble for things she had never done. I am the youngest of 4 for context, and my second eldest sister I feel is the golden child, despite what she says about my brother and despite what my parents say; we'll refer to her as S2. S2 causes her own drama and will often try to drag others into it, she will, without fail stick her oar into other peoples problems to further cause issues, its always my parents or S1 or SIL she'll go crying back to, however. S1 is the black sheep and actually moved out when I was about 4, my brother just tries to live his own life and stay out of trouble and I feel like my mother, I bear the brunt of everyone elses problems and am always on the recieving end for something I haven't done or for standing up for myself since no one did that for me as a child or as a mentally struggling teenager.

I feel like I should and probably could add more, in time, I hope I feel more able to, but for now I just want to leave it at this. I am very fortunate though to have a wonderful MIL and FIL, so I always count my blessings for that, but its still hard and feels hard to explain it.

Sorry don’t mean to jump on with a random question. But….is a golden child the physical manifestation of the covert narcissists real internal image of themselves? I get so confused. My MIL is very non showy, she won’t replace anything but she boasts about her other son who has literally EVERYTHING in the world and his kids have the most things you’ve ever seen, it is ridiculous what they have. We on the other hand have money but we don’t show it, we invest it whilst the other brother has a massive house on interest only payments. But we aren’t promoted despite seeming similar to her in our outlook.

@almondmilk123 I am sorry you feel sad today sending you a hug
I felt a bit sad today it's dd masters graduation soon and we were ordering her gown 2 years ago for her graduation we took dm with us and she was so proud dsis and dh cousin who is also dsis best friend streamed it online and we had a big family meal afterwards this time non of them even know her grade. It will still be a special day but it makes me sad how things have turned out

blah blah well I'd move, like yesterday, and not tell them where. I hope you've at least changed the locks! I'm betting your MH will undergo an improvement once these people are out of your life permanently.

@Spendysis thankyou for your kind words. I feel you. We are still managing to kind of pull of those events but they're hideously traumatic (for me anyway). Well done your DD for getting her masters - that's amazing! Go her!

@Blahblah8 further thoughts - my life was very enmeshed in my sisters which makes our estrangement so hard - we are constantly crossing paths and have mutual friends and whatnot. Would that be a factor for you? Think very carefully and don't make rash moves. I did and it's made everything worse down the line. Think ahead to keeping your powder dry - try not to give them amunition to lob against you.

Yeah you are lucky with the ILs - wish I could say the same! I relate hard to what you're saying about being punished all the time - the one it's easiest to punish, who makes the least trouble, gets punished the most. And that was me. I was always getting yelled at because I was actually the most reasonable one.

My dad used to accuse me and my sisters of abusing him. But I'm not sure he ever said it to them - I think he only said it to me. "Your sisters abused your mother and I, and I'm damned if I'm going to let you do it too."

Rather than wondering why he had such hysterical daughters.

You haven't said very much and the way this thread works, I think you need to post quite a few times for people to get the gist of your story.

anyway, hugs and hope you are having an okay day.

@Spendysis I found that also. When I’ve pulled away I’ve had to pull away from everyone because even the good decent family and friends are all stuck in the glue. It’s very lonely. It really makes you feel like the crazy one and it’s definitely pointed out this way. The way the narcs world is and all the players are very widespread and lots of the players are decent normal people. I think narcs are often decent to many people but there’s always a reason why. I would have never known until I started to see some weird behaviour and some horrible comments. I was being placed into a position I didn’t want to be in and now I’m a scapegoat.