October 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"
I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:
"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".
Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Not caught up on the thread but in answer to my question the general consensus is I shouldn't send dm a letter so I won't I will continue to write them and destroy them. I think because my childhood wasn't abusive unlike many others I am struggling to come to terms with dm change In behaviour towards me i am focusing on dsis manipulating her influencing her which may or not be true but i need to deal with the reality whether I agree with it or not and as hurtful as it is the police on their one brief visit determined dm has capacity so is fully aware of what she is doing so any letter I write wouldn't effect her and when dsis read it which she would and probably give her great satisfaction that I am hurt and suffering because of them both

Whatever the outcome it will be better than what has been dished out up until today. You have taken the first step to putting yourself first, away from the unpleasantness you will start to heal. Try not to waste time thinking about it [easier said than done] we can't change the past but we can move forward and make our own choices.
My mother was an absolute cunt but it hit me hard to realize my dad allowed it and was quietly every bit as bad by excusing and enabling her behavior. NC was the only way for me.

@Spendysis unfortunately I don't think your mum is an innocent bystander, she is going along with your sister by choice. The difficulty is you cannot trust toxic/dysfunctional relationships, they are always skewed and dishonest. My mum always pitted me and siblings against each other, it was very financially beneficial for my siblings but they had to dance attendance for it. As someone up thread said 'they invest in those that reward them' your sister is earning every penny by being the golden child, your mums confidant and giving her supply. Your mum has picked a side let her get on with it. If it was coercion she could stop it with police intervention but she didn't want to.

@Spendysis unless something is happening to your mums mind as she is aging I’m unsure how your sister could turn her against you unless something was already going on. If one of my children tried to take over I’d put them right back in their place and would never treat one child so badly. What’s happened to her conscious mind and her own empathy and memories of you? Unless your sister really has got in her brain of course I know some people are insane!

@Spendysis I once again agree with @binkie163

Sadly mothers of dysfunctional families enjoy triangulation and playing their children off against each other, making themselves a focal point & needed lynch pin for everyone’s attention. My NM always hated it when my sister and I were happily spending time together. She thrived on the drama when things between everyone wasn’t quite so harmonious usually due to her toxic comments and lies. She spent a huge amount of time trying to make each of her children feel insecure by weaving distrust and worries between us all. One good thing about being NC with my NM is I now have peace from this constant anxiety. Things are not always easy between my siblings and myself as we are all damaged by our upbringing, but we’re finally all honest & upfront with each other without my mother’s manipulation & twisted lies. I wouldn’t send any letters, just burn them after writing them. They will be manipulated and twisted to serve their own behaviour plus it’s confirmation to them that their actions are having the desired effect in impacting you. Sadly these people get sadistic pleasure from being able to influence other people’s well-being and happiness.

Does anyone get the impression we all seem to grow up having to unlearn how we survived our childhood. Our parents also had a childhood they had to survive through. I suppose that’s how the dysfunction travels down. Mine has survived by being perfect, showing no weakness, no vulnerabilities. It’s sad I suppose that is how they had to survive. Shit for me and destructive but sad.

Mine survived by projecting all their shit onto me. Never felt so used.

That’s how they survived adulthood, Did you ever trace the behaviour back to where they learned that awful behaviour from. I know it’s of no use but my own mums father was a drunk and her mum abandoned her. Great family tree.

Oh that's what you meant. Well, I went through a deep process of understanding what it must have felt like for them as children. I felt compassion for a bit, but that soon went. I will never forgive them for not trying to put in the tiniest amount of work, like read a book or just try therapy. Just try something else they might not yet have known. I will never understand it.

No I didn’t do it to reach forgiveness but I suppose it helped me realise that they are just extremely flawed humans. Maybe it’s easier to treat if you know the source. Sounds a bit medical!

Both my parents had little to do with their own parents, I don't think either were particularly happy but it's no excuse to go on to be useless alcoholic parents to 3 children. We were not poor but they spent exclusively on booze, going out [I was often left alone all evening from age 2] cigarettes, cars, clothes and general showing off, my mother was a spendaholic and serial shagger. I never wanted children [hardly surprising] I treat my dogs with more love & care. I provide a warm, safe, comfortable stable home for them, I take on rescues, I would like to have been rescued as a child. Tbh I don't care why they were shit parents as it doesn't change anything. There isn't any psychobabble that would make it ok. They were both self absorbed, selfish twats.

My parents are weird about their own childhoods.

My Dad literally never talks about it, I think survival for him was burying a lot of dark, dark things and never looking back. His mother "suffered with her nerves" - old Ireland term for severe mental health issues - so he basically parented himself from a young age, besides parentification there was also domestic violence, I don't know anything about my grandfather except that he died young.

My mother talks about her own family as if she's describing an episode of the Partridge Family, "we were so close - my mother was a saint - a woman ahead of her time, everyone in the community loved her - Daddy was a gent of a man, he would do anything for us - we've always been there for each other, family is everything".

Mum was the oldest daughter of 7 in old Catholic patriarchal Ireland, lived across the street from a Magdalene laundry and still is in denial about the atrocities that happened in there, which is a good example of how she is about a childhood that I know was nowhere near ideal. There's scapegoats and golden children, a prick of an uncle who abandoned his terminally ill wife to impregnate a woman 20 years younger but got away with it because he was GC, a scapegoated uncle who spent 30 years destroyed by alcoholism because my grandfather beat him up when he told him the local priest molested him. A scapegoated aunt for reasons I still don't understand, but I think she just didn't drink the kool aid and did her own thing, got married abroad and didn't invite any of them, and that was enough. A GC youngest sibling who now has a very bad alcohol problem that they're all choosing to ignore.

So a lot of generational trauma, and even more denial. I guess when I look at it that way, I never had a chance. It's no wonder I've got one mentally incapacitated sibling and another that is a mini-me of my nmother. It's why I feel like being myself has been so grotesquely offensive to my family. None of them got to be that, or got to know joy, or freedom, or choosing to be different. I feel a lot of heaviness when I think of them all, or think about my own childhood, I think I took on a lot of their stuff as that parentified "independent" middle kid. All the stuff they refused to deal with, in some way I feel like that choice meant I've had to deal with it all instead. It's why joy and love and being authentic and getting my ADHD diagnosis and doing therapy and saying no and basking in my own "oh god you can't do that, what will people think" decisions feels so important to me these days. I don't want to drag that heaviness down, it's not fair on anyone. Someone's got to stop it.

I would welcome some advice. I have a toxic mother and sister who I have struggled with all my life. My mother is widowed, and I have tried in spates to help her sort out her finances and a very tangled mess of accounts and trusts etc that was set up in the wake of my father's death. She doesn't have a clue about money or anything practical and when I tried to look into it it was a horrendous mess. I did a lot of work to sort it out and understand it, but my mother and I regularly fell out as she can be very unpleasant , which meant during those periods I just stopped being involved, leading to more issues. For example, no house insurance, her being persuaded by dodgy financial advisors to do various things which made things worse.

In the past few months I went into the bank to reorganise her accounts which were all on very low interest rates. I paid some money into her Isa etc. It took two hours, I did it as I have registered myself as POA and set it up with the bank. My mother has also allowed me to pay bills and pay for goods through her account as she can't use the internet. and a cheque she sent got lost.
My sister is largely unaware of a lot of things that I have done, because she is only interested in benefitting herself, not in helping. She is also POA but has not registered this with the bank because she doesn't live near my mother. My mother gives her money for her children reguarly and my sister has paid herself from my mother's account using her password. The password was changed because my mother forgot it, and my sister hasn't been able to log in. Therefore my mother asked me to send the payment. Stupidly., I questioned this, as my sister is always asking my mother for money and my mother had recently given us all a financial gift anyway. My sister then went mad, got angry with my mother, and then phoned me. This hardly ever happens, she only phones me once in a blue moon when she wants something that will advantage her. I apologised for having interfered. My sister then went on a spiel about how I should not be 'investing' my mother's money, should not be using her account, blah blah. I tried to explain that myth mother can't manage things without me doing this, and I emphasised how low the interest rates had been on her accounts. Sister says she doesn't care about interest rates and I shouldn't be doing it.

I was then sent a text by my mother to her brother describing the argument and making me out to be the issue, painting herself as a saint who had intervened and smoothed everyone's feathers. I don't know my Uncle , I don't trust him, and I was angry that she had done this. She lied to me and told me the text was about my sister, and sent to me which didn't make sense. The next morning she admitted the text was about me. I was upset and questioned it. she defended herself vigorously and did not apologise.

The upshot is I have decided to cut both of them out of my life. My sister is constantly asking my mother for money , and feels its fine for her to do what she likes, but if I get involved, she clearly doesn't trust me. She sent me messages questioning my mental and physical health, telling me I need to get therapy. I last saw her a year and a half ago. She knows nothing about my life.

The issue is that the whole family is in the middle of sorting out a complicated Trust fund, and I am the main mover in getting it done. If I walk away now it probably won't be done, or done properly, and I will lose out. I am trying to convince myself that it's better just to walk away and leave them all to it than stress myself further or involve myself with their power dynamics. I have a brother who is very low contact with my mother and sister. He fell out with with mother a while ago, and only keeps very minimal contact with her.

What should I do? I am really struggling. Am I in the wrong here?

My experience was different, I think your therapist is just shite/the wrong type for you (IDK which). I've had therapy and been taught so much that I didn't know. So we'll be talking and I'll say A, so B and C, has lead to X and Y, meaning of course Z occurred. And therapist be like hold up, why do you think it means Z, like there's no other way? And for that matter why did A lead to B and C? I'll explain to therapist and be told, effectively, that life doesn't work that way. I gained so many nuggets of information from therapy that helped with sorting out the bigger picture. Learnt many different ways to do things. Also things I could actively do to help myself. I didn't know what a boundary was when I entered therapy, much less have any. Therapy gave me freedom from other's expectations and a way forward for me in life.

That sounds like the therapy I need. Unfortunately I just haven’t found a therapist like that. I agree the one I am seeing is rubbish. I’ve tried quite a few, and only one was mildly helpful.

My ex was a narcissist and my BIL is the son of one and they seem to have these same behaviours and wondered if it was a thing. Both BIL and ex can’t stop working, they on call 7 days a week almost 24hrs a day. They will prioritise this over anyone. They see themselves as hero’s in there role and they actually think they are saving people (they are not saving type jobs). They seem addicted to the thought of saving people and will often use the term hero. My MiL calls her son a hero. They don’t seem to get anything out of family time, it’s a waste to them. The only thing that means anything to them is achieving, saving and having possessions that are big and lots of money.

I would welcome some advice

My husband and I married in our early 20s. I eloped and my parents disapproved (I am still on speaking terms with them but they live in another country so we don't see them much but do fly back regularly to see them; am happy with this dynamic). We moved in with his mother for 3 years and this enabled us to buy a flat in London at age 26 and 29. My husband has 3 sisters including a pretty problematic younger sister. She is neurodivergent (but her mum is in denial and allowed her to get kicked out of school and she pretty much has spent her life in her room except when she comes down for dinner to verbally abuse everyone).

However I was grateful to my mother in law for giving us a place to stay though we often felt like squatters and my husband constantly said we needed a Plan B in case we were kicked out. At least we were saving a lot of money so by the time 2 years rolled around, we were in the position to buy and spent around a year looking.

During that time I would bribe this youngest sister in law to make life easier, for example buying her cola. I remember she once accused me of eating her cream cheese (family pack in the fridge) ao I bought her loads and she couldn't finish them. It just went mouldy..
She is honestly quite odd, I have a memory of her calling me up to come home to unlock the door for her (I was buying food at mcdonalds and I remember having to eat my meal in the park as my mother in law keeps strict kosher so I couldn't eat it at home).

I even suspect that she stole my phone during a wedding (this was before i moved out). She was upset with me for sitting in a better seat (where I could see the bride) and made me swap. I then realized after the ceremony that my phone was missing from my bag (it is a cheap android). I kept pestering the restaurant staff for cctv footage but at the end of the night, she messaged me to say the phone was in my husband's 90 year old grandpa's bag and the phone was in her custody..I think it was probably her who took the phone as she refused to return me my phone until she returned home (we were travelling separately).She said it wasn't her responsibility and refused to meet me anywhere so she had my phone for a week. It was too weird, I can't imagine why restaurant staff who stole a phone and then chickened out would put it in a random elderly gentleman's bag (I wasn't even sitting next to him). My husband's grandpa doesn't speak English so it's not like we really communicate so we wouldn't even have looked related (but my husband's sister was sitting next to me)

Even when I moved out, I continued the bribery with food, partially because I felt sorry for her and also because we were spending quite a lot of time with them and I felt like I wanted to repay my mother in law (by providing companionship to her 'problem child')..when she was bribed, she was a lot nicer. My mother in law often invited us over for shabbat meals (couldn't use electricity so the orthodox tradition is to sit around the table for ages talking). So you couldn't really escape her.
However as time has gone by she has grown even more toxic. Her mother defends her. The last straw came when she ordered me to 'look at her when she was speaking to me '. She was telling me that the rise of the far right in Germany was due to Islam.

I said sarcastically, of course I am looking at you, I am looking at you with adoration..she started screaming at me..my husband interjected and told her to stop bullying me. She went ballistic and said she didn't want anything to do with us.
That was over a month ago. We haven't seen her except at a funeral where we didn't acknowledge each other. We also haven't really seen his mother who has firmly taken this daughter's side (for context, my husband is the only one of the 3 other children who still lives in the same country, the two other sisters have moved abroad; one has even moved to America and my mother in law can't afford the flights to visit her). We only saw her once when my husband was meeting up with one of his other sisters and her fiancee and my mother in law (but not the youngest problem sister) came along but we both felt she was avoiding us (easy enough as we met at a museum so she just went to see some different exhibits).
I don't know if it's related but I have struggled with fertility for years. I have even been referred to the fertility clinic, I haven't used artificial contraception since I got married at 22. I am 32 this year and actively trying since 2023..i just found out I am pregnant right after we cut off contact.
Perhaps the stress of interaction with her played a role; even when I wasn't living with her and she was overseas visiting family, I thought that as we met often, there was a possibility of a meeting every week which would last hours (and mostly involve us being lectured and screamed at while the mum looks on). I messaged my mother in law that I am pregnant but she didn't show much interest, she is still upset that we aren't giving in to her precious daughter or coming over for shabbat meals.
My husband messaged her that she is enabling her daughter's behavioral issues and the reason why her daughter kicked up such a fuss is so that she can avoid the long shabbat dinners and festival celebrations as she only tends to come down for meals when we are around..my mother in law has told me that in order to ensure she comes down for meals when we are around, she would stand outside her bedroom door one hour in advance and call her name periodically. This is quite standard, my mother in law blames her IBD. However there are many occasions when she is at least 30 minutes late for meals and when she finally decides to come down, she would throw another tantrum that we have decided to eat without her.
Suffice to say that even though she is 26, she pretty much hasn't grown out of her teenage years and doesn't leave her room most days. My husband felt like we were being used as props for his mother's religious practices. He is an atheist so he never liked that and now even more so when we are being used as target practice for his sister's verbal abuse. In addition due to the israeli palestinian conflict, it has become more tense, she now calls my husband antisemitic (even though they are from the same mother) . She also doesn't consider me Jewish because apparently I don't 'talk about god' or 'celebrate the festivals'. I actually converted to a liberal denomination of Judaism and belong to a liberal synagogue (where I attend services which often clash with my mother in law's festival schedule and it's in a different part of London). I must admit one reason I got into going to synagogue because it was a very easy way at that time to avoid these toxic family meals (when I was living with them) and it was a very long bus ride away so I would come home on Friday night late and be gone for at least half of Saturday.
Anyway I digress but I am wondering that now I am pregnant, would it be unfair to not have much contact with my mother in law given she is the only grandparent that my child could have regular access to. This is likely to be my only child (I own a small 2 bed flat and don't want to increase my mortgage debt significantly even if I upsize) plus I struggled so much to get pregnant (and am already 32). My husband's other siblings are abroad. I don't want my child to have contact with this 'aunt' but I don't see why he or she shouldn't have contact with his/her grandma.
My husband told his mother we are staying away to set boundaries with his sister (as she tags along with Mummy when she goes out to see us unless she decides she can't wake up). So he is worried that if we don't keep to the boundaries, it would all start again and it's bad for our mental health.of course this doesn't mean his mum can't meet us privately without the sister but obviously she hasn't offered to do so. It seems like we function as playmates for this 26 year old woman!
What do you all think. P.s. I am aware that as she is on the spectrum I should be kinder. But a lot of her behavior isn't linked to her autism, it's just toxic. And even if she can't help it, I can't fix her and I don't think subjecting myself to her verbal assault is going to improve her life. Yes she gets less social interaction but I am not sure she valued us anyway

obsessed I'd walk away from the trust situation. You'll lose out on money but you'll gain freedom and peace of mind. If you live in UK we have the welfare backup, so you'll always have some form of income no matter what, you don't need their money. Hopefully you'll do better in life than that though, but you can't put a price on your mental health. Poor MH can lead to poor physical health and if you don't have health you basically have nothing. Not to disparage the sick and disabled, I am one, but facts are you can't do much at all if you're in that category and choices for your life are limited. Best to avoid ending up there if possible. Chronic high level stress is so so bad for a person so reducing that increases your chances of remaining healthy.

Happyfarm sounds like an accurate description of my narc ex. Parents unsure if there's one or two narcs. Family time not pointless to one but working all hours to amass money for no necessary reason and missing family time because of it, was definitely happening. Swinging between emotionally supportive and emotionally toxic. Other never really engaged in family time even if physically present and getting them to be physically present was extremely difficult. They'd create tasks that didn't need doing, just to avoid being there. If there they mostly observed, didn't take part. Emotionally absent and neglectful, only ever taking rarely ever giving and then only crumbs.

Sorrel keep your child (and yourself and your husband) well away from the toxic shitshow that is his family of origin. It's the only sensible thing to do. No wonder all the other siblings live abroad! They've escaped and you need to do the same. Enablers are just as bad as abusers, they keep the toxicity flowing. Anything you "owed" you've long since repaid, don't let false obligation keep you tied to the dysfunctional family dynamics.

@SamAndAnnie I wonder if the connection between self and emotions have just been severed in these families. They no longer take pleasure from merely being alive but from roles and purposes. I try so hard to promote my children’s individuality, even if they are a little mad lol! I know the brother has to always be of use but he is of use at home with his family, it’s the most use of all. He literally is like a robot. In social situations he just stands still, he won’t even sit down, it’s like he’s ready to run for when the phone rings and he can go to work. The purpose of his life is very rigid. It’s a hole that can never be filled.

Sorrel

What Samandannie wrote - stay well away from them all on his side of the family.

Btw nothing you have written suggests that his sister is autistic (who told you that or did you assume) and it looks also like she has not been professionally diagnosed. ASD does not equate to the abuse you’ve received from her.

She more likely has some forms of untreated, and untreatable, personality disorder/s. She’s certainly enabled by her mother who in turn has used you and your H as props for her religious practices.

@Obsessedwithsourdough for what it’s worth I totally agree with @SamAndAnnie regarding walking away regardless of trust funds or money. My parents are well off and mum used money totally as a control tool. When I walked away there were hysterical threats of being cut out of their Will immediately. Dad just sat back and let her. But so be it, I now have peace and my life back and no amount of money is worth giving that up for. Her money is tainted anyway and always came with strings attached.

She has been diagnosed with aspergers and adhd. I think her mum refused treatment which was why the school expelled her before she took her gcses (think that was just an excuse- school was high performing comprehensive, the kind which outperforms lots of private schools). Previously when I posted on mumsnet about her people have criticised me for being harsh which made me try harder. But now with new baby and also other pressures, I don't think I can keep it up plus all the other siblings making permanent decisions to set up new lives in their spouse's countries without even thinking of coming back to uk/not even visiting- it has placed things in perspective for me. I think I may have just become accustomed to a poisonous dynamic. Either way I can't fix her so I might as well bow out. DH has voiced numerous concerns re her future (as what will happen to her when MIL dies), all of it has fallen on deaf ears. MIL just says that SIL will be her carer which is a pipe dream; anyone with practical experience of looking after an elderly invalid would see that (when DH's 94 year old grandpa's asked her to stay over to hello around the house he said she didn't do anything and that is when she is 26- trying being a 55 year old woman caring for her 91 year old mother). Its not any of our business what MIL plans to do with her care plans but what she wants us to do is pretend everything is OK, pander to SIL and act as if whatever SIL is doing is normal (and then giving her the title of future carer to normalise her living at home and being reliant on her mother). I just don't think this helps anyone to maintain suc a charade.

She may have been diagnosed by by whom?. Again none of what you wrote re her can really be attributed to Asperger’s (that term is not used any more) or ADHD either, it’s certainly no excuse for her abuses of you. I agree it’s in no one’s interest to continue in this charade so I would drop the rope entirely re his family.

I have a family member with Down’s syndrome and other learning difficulties. He is extremely clever and extremely manipulative. The things he has done have astounded me, his immediate family had to put him into a house with carers as he was quite dangerous. Instigating false accusations etc etc. No personally disorders with him.

Did anyone else see the daily mail headline of some reality TV star called Maura who's cut off her dad. And he's totally bewildered and does apparently not understand why or what.

Isnt it just typical.

I finally blocked my father today after he contacted me again (2nd time within a month) for some trivial matter. He just cannot respect my boundary after I told both my parents I don't want calls/texts back in fucking august. It's just typical for him. I don't understand these people. He's desperate for contact but if I'm in their life they don't treat me well and I'm insignificant compared to their own needs and wants. I genuinely cannot understand what they get out of it.