October 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"
I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:
"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".
Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Hi everyone

I need someone to talk to
I didn't want to make a thread myself because they get too busy and I'm scared it will get back to my mother (lots of mums with kids in family)

But last night all hell broke loose and I send my mother some harsh messages and blocked her

So I guess I am NC now.

Basically she was really, really physically and mentally abusive to me as a kid and when I've brought it up, once in adulthood, she went crazy and tried to physically attack me. My DH held her back and pushed her out of our front door and she told everyone he hit her!! 🤨

I don't socialise. I have OCD. Adhd
Social anxiety and she made a comment about me not attending a big family party and the fact I never visit her.

She lives 20 mins away and drives
I don't
She doesn't bother with my kids at all
But spends every day with my sisters kids
This all started because everyone wanted to go for a family meal in December.
My mother was booking it and messaged me to say she was booking it on my sons 20th birthday because that was thw only day my sister could get a sitter.
I said I couldn't go, so she basically said tough.

It really hurt me.
My other(2nd) sister said she wasn't going either in that case as its not a family meal if we're not all there

My mother phoned her and went crazy, telling my sister to fuck off and calling her a drama queen and selfish.

Nobody can ever say anything critical to her or have an adult conversation.

So I messaged my mother trying to say, my sister just thought it was unfair.

And my mother starts on me saying that I probably wouldn't have gone to the meal anyway as I never go to family events.
I am on ESA and PIP because I barely leave the house due to anxiety and 2 of my kids are currently in therapy and extremely depressed.
I have so much going on and when I told her about that it took her 6 weeks to visit and she stayed 20mins.

I'm sick of it.

I just lost ot last night and sent these texts and blocked her.

And straight away my 2nd sister whatsapped me that my mother had sent her screenshot of what I said (cleverly leaving out the abuse bit!!!) And was trying to paly the victim.

So that's it. I don't have a mother.

Thw only thing I'm sad about is not being able to see my Dad
Who's not perfect but he's not my mother.

Oh and 10 mins agywr I blocked her she went on FB and chaged her profile photo from her and her daughters to her alone. And her cover photos from her and her grandkids to just her and her mum (who was an angel BTW and saved my childhood)

I have slight anxiety about how family things will work going forwards but I'll deal with that when it happens.

Made the photo sensitive warning due to swearing and child abuse

@gogona just read your message. Sorry that you have shit parents. You are not alone, I think most people on this thread have issues with their parents. It sounds like you have extra pressure with your health and children though, which must be tough. It would be good if you could surround yourself with more supportive, or even just sane people rather than people who like to throw more shit at you. I read your screenshot from WhatsApp. My farther deliberately bit my sister when she was a kid as a punishment, I think somebody would need to have something wrong with their head and their heart to behave that way. Your mother really has pushed your buttons. Have you ever reacted like this to your mother before? Did it feel good to get it out? How do you think it made your mum feel and what do you expect the upshot to be? Sending hugs x

Wvsc3 I think I'd have to play the long game and look at moving abroad to break the connection. Or maybe just a different part of the UK would work. New area, new friends (I find friendships don't last long distance), new everything that they don't know about, including social media accounts, phone number, surname, the lot. You need to effectively disappear off the face of the earth.

Duplicate

Trigger warning :(

It was very reactive, I know, but it's just been inside me since I was a child.
She did so many sick things to me. Hitting me with hairbrushes, plastic hangers, rubber soled slippers. And then there was the biting, scratching, spitting at me. Strangulation (she once lifted me from thw ground against a door by my throat)
I was terrified of her bathing me as she would pour water over my face and when I struggled and grabbed at her she would push me down into the water.
My most vivid memory is of her pushing me onto her bed and she got onto of me, straddling me and pinning my arms by my side with her knees so I couldn't move
She then covered my mouth with one hand and pinched my nose with thw other and stated onto my eyes as I suffocated.

She is a monster and I'm tired of pretending she wasn't.

She's never owned up to any of it.

Never apologised for anything in her life.

But she thinks we had a great childhood because we had holidays abroad and all thw toys and branded clothing we wanted

I vividly remember standing in the playground and my mum had done something 'cool' like taken me and friends somewhere and my friend said 'I wish your mum was my mum'

And I remember everything went a bit wobbly and I thought "you really dont'

And I know now she will be telling everyone that listens what I've said/done and throwing all the things she's ever done for us in my face

It felt good to say it.

I said it once before, to her face, that's when she attacked me.

I don't know what the upshot will be as I've blocked her and I don't want to see her again. And she said to my sister she will never talk to me again

Bloody hell !That is horrific. I am so sorry you went through all that. I would never speak to her ever again . As you say she is a monster and who cares what she says . You know the truth. Sending love x

ps I was cheering you on reading those texts. Good for you for saying your piece x

Happyfarm I'd not overthink the asking how mum is situation. I'd look at it as ok she doesn't want to say, well nobody has to answer any question, so this is her maintaining her personal privacy. Then I wouldn't ask about it again that visit in the interests of respecting her boundary, or think about it after because there's nothing you can personally do about her health so if she doesn't want to tell you how she's feeling that's that, nothing for you to think about or sympathise with etc. She might be playing a game of getting everyone fussing over her by refusing to provide information about how she feels, but I'd ignore that side of it and refuse to play her game

Good for you for standing up for yourself gogona

She does this all the time. She will say no one bothers or no one asks her if she is ok and then she blames everyone else for just not knowing. It’s like her grass will be growing long but she will think I know that it needs cutting and im deliberately not doing it. When in reality I have no idea about the grass and if she said hey could you do my grass I’d have no problem. She is very emotional in all her language and it’s always about people not meeting her needs and is a victim. She will never ring my brother. He is extremely busy in a high power job with 2 small children and she says it’s his job to call me. If I want to chat to someone I’ll just pick up the phone and ring. My dad often couldn’t wait to get away from her and become very depressed. Even on his death bed she got sulky because he wasn’t being nice enough. I wonder if her mother abandoning her for a little while and her sister knowing where she was but not telling my mum caused this victim wound.

I listened to a podcast yesterday that really resonated. It's called Dear Therapists and the episode is called "Jason's Alcoholic Father".

What really resonated was this guy grew up with alcoholic parents, and had escaped the dysfunction and built a successful life with a healthy family of his own. But his body and mind was still "stuck" in the chaos and neglect of his childhood, and it was preventing him from enjoying his adult life or finding any joy or peace in it. This is so many people I know. This is and has been me for so long. I didnt have alcoholic parents but so much of his dysfunction was familiar to me. So much of the survival guilt, the fear, the anger, the hypervigilance. The therapists in the podcast used such a helpful analogy, they talked about his childhood as the "war". His body doesn't realise "the war is over".

And I wanted to offer that to everyone here, too. As I think everyone who grew up like this finds it hard to live in the NOW.

I live in a safe, cosy home, I wake up next to a man that would do anything to make me happy, I walk down the stairs and the dog jumps with joy when he sees me. I'm financially secure, I'm healthy, I'm safe. But so much of my body and my mind has been stuck in that war, waiting to be betrayed, abandoned, attacked, waiting for the shoe to drop. Feeling powerless, scared, like i don't matter.

But it's not true, is it? The war is over. I've been repeating that to myself all day. It's ok to experience joy now, even if things aren't perfect. It's ok to be silly and playful and maybe not have all the answers but love yourself in all your imperfect weirdness anyway. Your mom will probably have a million judgements and fears for you, or your Dad might not understand you, or whatever your brand of dysfunction is, but, like, fuck it. Isn't the whole point of life to find our way back to ourselves regardless? Aren't we allowed to dream and do things our way regardless of the past?

Just a few ramblings from someone who is sick of struggling and giving so much of my precious energy to the folks that will never see the whole of me anyway. Let them off, you know? Let them. It means nothing.

This made me cry.

What a thoughtful insight

Wonderful. Thank you.
I am teetering on the brink of cutting off my elderly mother and toxic sister for good. It’s really hard. I’ve had enough. They have added nothing positive to my life all my life. I just want to be free, but I feel so guilty.

Do you think they feel guilty, no. And what do you have to feel guilty about anyway when it comes to them?. Deal with any fear obligation and guilt you have through therapy.

I haven’t found therapy at all helpful. They just repeat back what I’ve said and have nothing valuable to say that is helpful.

yes v inciteful observations. I have had this realisation recently myself . It is like in my mind I am still a child in my birth family when in reality I am a mother and grandmother with a large family of my own ! it is weird ! I guess it is a case of being stuck emotionally and I am working really hard on overcoming it.

Ps and thankyou for sharing . It has really helped me. x @wonderingwonderingwondering

@wonderingwonderingwondering it makes so much sense. I realised recently that I was looking for what I’ve lacked in my relationships with people also. I’ve been projecting onto people roles of what I wanted and people can’t fill this role as it’s impossible to find what I’ve missed in another. I then get rejected all over again not realising that it’s me who has been clinging onto people willing them to fill this hole. These people aren’t ever going to fill a role of unconditional love as only a mum can do that. I felt I’ve took a child role in all my relationships wanting people to save me. I feel better not wanting saving anymore.

This resonates with me so much.
I’ve had friendships where for a while they’ve almost seen me as a novelty that I don’t have a family of origin (worth bothering with) and have welcomed me into theirs (and called me an honoury family member, sister from another mister etc) and for a while I’ve felt like I’ve finally gained parents and siblings. Then of course, I’m not actually family, so when their novelty factor with me wears off I’m back to feeling abandoned again, when really I’m just back to having a more normal friendship.
I also seem to get drawn to friendships with women older than me, I think it’s because I want a mother, and of course they are never going to fulfil that role.
It’s so unhealthy. But it’s like my brain can’t accept that I will never experience what it feels like to have a loving nurturing mother.

It's an easy thing to do @Happyfarm . I've done that a lot too. Trying to prove myself to bosses like I tried to prove myself to my mother. Trying to find a partner that would love and accept me the way my own mother never did. Finding "the power" in any situation IE senior management at work, popular people in a friendship circle, and positioning myself against them, scapegoating others before they can scapegoat me.

It's kinda monkey brain, when you're unconscious to it at first, but even after the self-awareness comes, you're still walking around playing the same broken record because it's kinda safe or something, your brain at least understands it. I think true positive change takes a lot of work, a lot of conscious choices to re-wire your brain the way it should've been wired in the first place. I should've grown up to like myself, to listen to myself, to think "wohooo go me! I did that!" when I achieved certain things. To not have to please others as a survival strategy.

I guess I'm just tired of feeling like this thing that happened between 0-18 gets to hold any power on me, and it holding me back from actually SEEING myself. "You're your own worst enemy...you should stop being so hard on yourself", even my MOTHER used to say, "you have no self esteem, I don't know why that is" LOL.

I was walking the dog yesterday after listening to that podcast and thinking, "the bloody AMAZING things I have done in my life, without ANY support, without harming or blaming ANYONE, without EVER expecting or asking for a leg up, while living in this emotional war zone.... and I am really going to steal the self-respect, and self-confidence and self-pride and empowerment that I've EARNED from myself because I was once a traumatised child?" It just seems like a waste to imprison yourself in the way your disordered family members tried to for the rest of your life, that's an incredible waste.

@wonderingwonderingwondering I absolutely can’t live as a child any longer longing for something I never had, denying my own children all of me and the one thing I always wanted.

Yeah me neither @Happyfarm . I know it's not a decision and then switch, off you go into your happy and enlightened future. But I think the future matters more than the past does now. Going into the past and unravelling it and going "that's messed up, that was unfair, that made me think and do X Y Z" is SO important. Boy do I wish more people did it.

But I think the next part is equally important - realising you can't change it, or them, and maybe they actually don't matter at all anymore. They're just small people doing small things and they don't see anything wrong with it because they don't get this gift of self-awareness and courage to stop the madness and to change. Maybe it's our job to embrace those gifts and reverse all of these oppressive beliefs and "life lessons" that have been cascading down the generations and actually be like, nah, think I'll do my own thing now. Think I'm actually an adult who knows the hell better. Think I'll find better people and better beliefs and better ways of living

@wonderingwonderingwondering that podcast makes so much sense. I have my own beautiful family, lovely home and wonderful life, I’m very lucky, but my toxic childhood family can still occasionally cast this looming shadow which blights the joyful rays. It’s can be very difficult to adjust to the fact it’s ok to be myself, without judgement, relax and enjoy life in a carefree manner. Also so hard to turn off that exhausting hyper vigilance and high alert feeling, even when you’re totally NC with them. It’s like you have to re-learn how to be again.

@GoGoNa sorry to hear your pain but you are definitely doing the right thing. My mother was also very physically violent to me as a child and you can’t move forward whilst in contact with these monsters in my opinion. x

@wonderingwonderingwondering definitely can’t change them. My current chapter is to stand firm in who I am and learn to be ok with people not liking me. It’s the one thing I want to pass onto my children so I have to model it the best I can, even if for a while I fake it till I make it. I want to be able to stand in front of other humans feeling equal even in our differences not inferior anymore. I am of no use to my family or my In laws and I have to accept it. They view all relationships as assets of high and low value. They invest in those assets who give them a good return, that is not me. I’m a free thinker I’m never going to be an asset. My partners brother and family are always being told they are an asset to his parents. I always wanted to be told that but I’ve changed my view of the term. We aren’t supposed to be assets, we are supposed to be encouraged to grow our own unique voices not to talk the same language of our parents so as they cement the family name in superiority.