October 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007.

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"
I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:
"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".
Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwaite
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Hard relate to that unfortunately@twatalert! It was a huge workplace challenge for me, too. Most recently, I'd climbed heights in my corporate career and found myself incredibly triggered by my management role, I just felt like a small child who had no clue what to do and no means to ask for support, taking on too much trying to prove myself whilst drowning. Despite the experience, the track record, the actual results I've had in my career that should've bred a natural confidence in me, it was incredibly disempowering instead.

You're so right about everyone struggling, no-one has a clue, no-one is better or worse than anyone else. A real wound of bad parenting and these family roles we play can be that sense that you're the only one who's struggling while everyone else knows exactly what they're doing, has it all figured out. So not true. We'd all do well to remind ourselves of that.

@wonderingwonderingwondering this is why I don't formally manage people. I would just never sleep again. People have told me they see me as leader and id be so good managing people. And maybe it's true, but I'd crumble and be a wreck.

I come across as very confident and so I seem I know what I'm doing and I know what I'm doing, but I'm full of self doubt regardless. I don't know if this can ever get less.

How did you resolve your struggles in your leadership role?

@twatalert I havent yet. I quit that job and decided to do some consulting for a few months, myself and DH are going through fertility treatment and it became apparent that the stress of that job was having an impact on my hormones and general health. I've had to accept a much lower income while I figure out the next move, but I'm really privileged to have the financial security to be able to do it this way. It's led to a lot of emotional healing too, probably how I found my way to this thread.

I don't know if I'll go back to management again, I'm still in two minds about it. That workplace was toxic with zero structure or support for me (tech startup environment), but I did get a lot of satisfaction in mentoring my team and supporting their growth too. That was the only fulfilling part. Managing people is hard especially when you're prone to taking on everyone else's feelings and bad at boundaries.

I think a lot of my upbringing forced me to lone wolf life in a big way, in the workplace that's meant big success in Individual Contributor roles but that can feel stagnant after a certain point. Im the same as you re appearing confident. I present well, can command respect and am not phased by things like presentations, v vocal in meetings etc. I guess it's a strength but it can feel like a mask too.

I do think more people are struggling then let on and social media plays a huge role in the false appearance. Other people seem to have it all worked out but they just don’t, we all in this pot together. I think many more people live with dysfunction and never catch on.

I was talking to my partner this afternoon about his brother. He can’t stop working, all days, 7 days a week all hours. I asked him why can’t he stop, his wife must be lonely. He said she has her kids to keep her company. But that’s dysfunctional, kids should be finding themselves, out with friends, it’s not their role to be their mums company. His brother is missing out on the meaning of life because he can’t stop working to keep up this pretence that has been given to him by his parents. They should be guiding him, telling him to be home with his children, watching them grow. Instead they encourage him to work 15 hour days.

I think your confidence and your ability to stand and communicate is you and the rest is just learned behaviour holding you back. Perhaps you have always been someone who likes challenges. I’ve never been a good communicator but I’ve always had a good eye for art and design and have a masters degree in design but never the confidence and this stupid fear of rejection to really pursue it. I am not sure if that is linked to my upbringing or whether I was always destined to not be confident. We are not all able to be big. I’ll never know.

thank you for this post @Happyfarm , I can relate to it in many different ways.

(FYI I was a peach before, I'm a crab today)

Just wondering, really, how people manage their feelings about missing out on being parented once they've accepted that they aren't going to get it from the parents they have.

Have been LC with mother for years. We used to have a very unhealthy enmeshed relationship when I was younger, but as I got older and began to see things through an adult lens, I pulled back from that because I could see that it wasn't a positive dynamic. Every decision I made was based on whether she'd agree/it would upset her/it was what she wanted whether it was the right choice for me or not. When I started doing things based on what I wanted, I would get either a baffled and hurt 'but I want' or 'that's very stressful for me and I expect you to support me through it' so I stopped telling her anything that mattered.

Our relationship is very superficial and distant as a result. But I'm finding that the few things I do tell her, she just doesn't listen. I'm asked the same questions over and over and give the same answers. It's like I'm invisible. I know, realistically speaking, that this is just the same old shit. I was always invisible because she only sees her own needs and doesn't understand that my needs might differ. When I respond, she's not really listening. I get the impression that she thinks in her own head that she's interested, but her actions tell a very different story. When we were 'close' it was because I bent myself to fit in in the shape she had carved out for me. She still thinks I am that shape. She hasn't changed. But I have.

I do sometimes feel like there's a gaping hole in my life where a parent should have been. I've accepted that it will always be there. Just wondering, really, how people have managed to cope with it? What strategies do you use?

Hi @ThatTidyCrab it's very painful indeed. I wonder what its like to feel a mother's love? I will never know.

Mostly I cope by treating myself. And by that I mean to look after myself, sometimes it's like parenting myself. Like you I neglected myself all my live and I'm still unlearning that. By giving myself what I need it lessens the void. It could just be a cup of tea in peace and quiet when I'm overwhelmed, it could be to just say no to something, have an early or late night, buy myself something nice like chocolate i want to try or a nice lip balm. Just anything really. I'm also trying to be nicer to myself instead of beating myself up over everything. It's a long road.

Probably not useful but I fumble through life doing the best I can. Some days being shit and some days being great. I do things that feel right to me and just get up and repeat each day trying to enjoy the present. I set things I enjoy. Eg I love Christmas and occasions so look forward to decorating my house. I try and reconnect with the child within me and what makes my heart sing. It’s hard to filter out the oppressive voices but it’s in there. Life is so much better when you get your inner child’s voice back. I was talking to my partner about this yesterday and he thinks I’m insane. We go to school we get taught to obey and follow orders. We think we have to make money and life is lost along the way. He says more money means you have nicer things but I think it’s a catch. When we were a child we didn’t need things to have fun. We need to find the hole and find the child inside and bring them back out.

I think that narcs have obliterated their inner child, they can’t relate to anyone or enjoy anything, nothing makes their heart sing anymore.

I don’t know if anyone else agrees but when you are with a narc it’s like there is no light. There is only control. There is no impulse, no vulnerability, everything is superficial. They have fantastic superficial relationships. I have been looking at inner child stuff lately. I think it’s how we connect to people via our inner child and their emotions. As parents I think they (maybe not intentionally) destroy that little light we have inside, our worthiness, the amazingness to just be alive and to find joy in life. They don’t nurture it and instead try and replace it with superficiality.

@Twatalert I think she does love me, sort of, as much as she is able. It's just that her ability didn't meet my needs because there was parentification. I was there to prop her up, often at the expense of myself, but she seems totally unable to grasp it. I think she lacked parenting herself, then got into a horrible marriage very very young to escape a difficult home life and didn't know how to get out of it. So my childhood was totally blighted by violence and abuse. I've been left with such terrible anger. I wouldn't let my children grow up in that environment and I don't understand why she thought it was acceptable for me to do so.The only conclusion I've come to is that she didn't think about the impact it was having on me at all, not really. They did eventually divorce when I was in early adulthood. She remarried very quickly. I cut contact with my father totally and never looked back, but the withdrawal from my mother was a lot slower. She'd always been the 'good' parent but with him gone I began to see that she really wasn't. Very self involved, capable of being really quite unkind and selfish. Horrible to my youngest child. We were really, really LC for over a decade but her domestic situation changed (she was widowed) and she immediately turned around and expected me to somehow start filling the gap and so is asking for attention that I find it really painful to give her. A lot of anger that I haven't had to feel due to the LC has come back. I don't understand, really, how she can behave the way she has and then expect anything from me. It's hard.

Can I just say that I spent a few hours in the presence of my partners mum and for the first time I didn’t turn Into a blithering idiot and even still feel pretty good now. I think I’m coming to the conclusion that we live in different worlds and her world is no longer a threat to mine. I’ve always thought that this may be my trauma that the narcs world was a threat to my existence, like we can’t exist together. I exist now outside of their world, I’m starting to be happy and more concrete in who I am. After visits I’m usually very agitated and ruminate about what is wrong we me and why I’m not accepted. I end up taking it
out on people I love because I get overwhelmed.

Just Laura regards GC sibling and identity. I'm not sure we're disagreeing here. I'll try to explain better. (Sorry this is long!)

My GC sibling feels superior definitely, it's there in their everyday speech - the comments they make, the fundamental opinions they hold. So I agree with you on that.

Like you, I've experienced the same attitude of there being something wrong with me for not tolerating the family crap. For not wanting to toe the line in general throughout life, including in childhood, both within family life and outside of it. I've always wanted to be my own person and that's been viewed as weird by my family.

I've witnessed GC tie themselves up in knots to be whatever someone else wants them to be. Whether that's their boss, their best friend or friendship group, narc parents, their partners. Basically anyone whose opinion they care about or who's favours they need and who doesn't have to put up with them no matter what. They're a chameleon, twisting and morphing and shape-shifing into whatever the "main character" wants in a person. (I mean main character other than themselves, they're definitely the main "main character" in their life (their DC also don't fall under this heading because their DC, being minors, can't leave so have no choice but to put up with them)). The way they dress, the activities they do socially, their opinions etc. - it all changes depending on who that "main character" is in their life at that point. Usually it's a partner, but not always eg if they're thinking of leaving a relationship it's sometimes their boss who is the main character, the one who gets appeased. In teen years it was their best friend or friendship group.

It's really noticeable to me as someone who's been there watching for their entire life. It looks to me, as an outsider, as though GC lacks a personal sense of identity of their own. GC appears to be totally unaware of and unbothered that they do this personal alteration thing.

If I contrast GC with myself - I'm the same whoever I'm with. My hobbies and opinions etc are the same regardless of who my partner is.
Some examples: I dress however I want to outside of work and someone else's preferences don't come into it. So although my style might change from time to time, it doesn't coincide with me getting a new partner or friend, I don't start dressing in the same style as the other person to mirror them. I don't take up a partner's or new friend's hobbies unless I genuinely think it sounds interesting. If I'm a jogger then I'm a jogger. If my new best friends hobby is dancing, I don't suddenly become all about dancing, then when I get a new boyfriend into cycling I don't suddenly become a cyclist and never dance or go jogging again. I don't pick my social activities to fit in with what someone else likes in that way GC does. If I'm a fitness freak who likes to stay slim eat salads regularly and go to the gym several times a week, I don't become an overweight couch-potato weed-smoker eating endless chocolate and crisps just because that's what my mates are into. If I believe the world is round, I don't start saying I believe the world is flat just because that's what my new boyfriend believes, then when I end up in a different relationship in future go back to saying I believe the world is round again.

On a separate note, regarding DB, he's stalking you - so I'd deal with that accordingly, through official channels if necessary.

About your parents thinking you have lots of spare time. All you can do is have strong boundaries around what you will and won't do. It doesn't matter if their perception of your free time is accurate or not, it doesn't change what you're happy to do. Don't fall into the trap of feeling you have to justify your decision to them, even though they'll be acting like they're in charge of your choices and if you haven't justified it to their satisfaction then you can't do I and have to do what they want instead. It isn't true! You can do whatever you want, for no reason other than that you want/don't want to.

Has anyone else stepped back and cut contact quite a lot and the family aren’t bothered at all? I honestly thought that they might feel a little sad or ask why or what’s up but they aren’t and it’s been radio silence for months, almost a year with the odd message but nothing much. No monkeys no nothing like I didn’t matter all along.

Happyfarm yes, same, with the exception of these birthday meetups I mentioned. Birthdays seems to be my parents thing and I'm getting push back about that. The rest of the year though, radio silence. Apparently no interest in having a friendly normal relationship with me where we meet for coffee and cake (or whatever) just for fun and chat about whatever, they're only interested in controlling me and pumping me for personal information at meetups and then being obviously annoyed that they're on an information diet.

Narcs have withdrawn and are mostly acting as if they've been told to fuck off by me, when all I've actually done is be friendly and polite but refuse to be drawn on personal information or to meet on my nuclear family's actual birthday days (happy to meet a few days before/after or on my extended family's actual birthdays).

Long timer but have name changed.

Went NC in 2018. I'm the disappointment and failure of the family (although objectively I do have more of the traditional "successes" in life but anyway). History of physical abuse until I left home at 15, then emotional abuse until I'd had enough of being put down, and went NC.

I'm currently in the midst of the classic toxic parent in hospital situation. From what I've pieced together from screenshots of social media that accompany the abusive messages, my mother has been in hospital for most of the year and is now in a nursing home. Appears very frail and possibly near end of life.

The rest of the family are drama lovers so their messages and social media are all full of tragic attention seeking memes and cryptic posts. I'm getting all sorts of randomers messaging about how I could abandon my family at such a time and wishing me all sorts of ills. Local village mentality and my parents are very popular.

Am I a terrible person for sticking to my guns? Has anyone regretted not giving in at this stage of life?

Bearing in mind that no one has actually contacted me to ask me to visit, or to tell me what's going on - just to tell me how evil I am for not helping. Sister was made POA well over 10 years ago.

And also what do I say to my teenagers? I have no facts and I can't imagine being invited to a funeral, just probably get abuse for not going.

I just feel like whatever I do, I'll be framed as an evil bystander.

@happinessisnotapossession
What, realistically, do you think you would be the outcome of your visiting now? Is there a range of realistic outcomes? Not sure what you should say to your teenagers, but I think it should be honest and framed in a way they can understand.

@Gudinne - Realistically, I think it would just make me feel crap because they would all "attack" me. I'd hope it would stop the whole world giving me grief though.

Teens are 16/18 so not kids. When I first went NC they were very much "we miss grandad", which resurfaced now and again until eventually exh told them I was right, they weren't to get in touch for their own safety and there were things they didn't need to know etc.

But I guess I can't really say much more than "from Facebook it looks like grandma is poorly" and it will give more questions than answers, unless I first make contact.

"The rest of the family are drama lovers so their messages and social media are all full of tragic attention seeking memes and cryptic posts. I'm getting all sorts of randomers messaging about how I could abandon my family at such a time and wishing me all sorts of ills. Local village mentality and my parents are very popular".

Ignore the flying monkeys sent in by your mother and family to do their bidding for them. They have their own agenda and do not have your interests at heart so their opinion should be ignored.

You know the truth re your family of origin as you were raised in it. They were not and many people only see the good side of such families. Many so called pillars of the community are really anything but.

I would also remove yourself entirely from all forms of SM; its a godsend to dysfunctional and or otherwise toxic families to further put the boot in. Stop reading it and do not respond to any of it; a response is a reward to these people and they know they have you then. Consider also changing your mobile number.

Give your teens the age appropriate truth re your family of origin. Abuse thrives on secrecy and its time you bust this wide open.

happinessisnotapossession

There is no good reason for you to be in touch with any of them; none of them have reached out personally to you and are using SM to further put the boot into you. Ignore it all and drop the rope that is being held out to you. With you not responding they'll soon realise its a waste of time.

You are no contact for very good reason; keep it that way and do not undo all the progress you have made by reopening a box that should remain firmly shut.

And do now give your teens the age appropriate truth re your family; it needs to come from you rather than your ex

Long time reader of this thread, but never posted. I have a narcissistic mother, who I have had to navigate life with over many years. The last few years I’ve started calling her out on her behaviour. She lies, and pits me and my siblings against each other. Has criticised me so much that my self esteem has always been at rock bottom. I’m a big people pleaser as a result. But now, I seem to have solely attracted her venom, rather than my two siblings, due to speaking with her on countless occasions about her behaviour over the course of the last couple of years. My daughter recently had a baby girl, my first grandchild, who is adorable. Showed mum the photos I had when I visited in hospital, with me and GD. She responded by saying my hair looked like a birds nest, and how could I have let myself be photographed looking such a mess. I said how she rarely cried when we were there, mum responds by saying I must be boring her. My daughter visited her with the baby this weekend, I wasn’t there. Daughter called me as my mum told her i complained about my daughter every time I saw my mum, and that she (my mum) called me out on it. Never happened. I love my daughter and tell her how proud I am of her every day, because I never want her to feel how ive felt through most of my life. Fortunately daughter doesn’t believe her as we are very close and she knows I would never complain about her. Then tells my daughter that she’s surprised she’s being a good mum, as she thought she would just neglect my GD and leave her in her pram to cry. Based on my daughter in days, long gone, being very invested in the partying lifestyle. My daughter’s recent comments have made me so angry. The whole drama of being her daughter is draining me, making me feel ill some days, and I just want to confront her on it all. Just wondering whether a narcissist ever takes responsibility for their actions, or ever listens? Will she be happy that she has got another reaction out of me? Am I best just not saying anything? My daughter wasn’t upset, just perplexed with her behaviour. Hasn’t been exposed to things in the past, which makes me think my mum is also directing at her now, and that’s where my anger comes from. My mum has a life threatening illness, has heart failure which is quite advanced. I’m just wondering whether my approach is all wrong, and I should step back and not challenge her, and accept this is the way she is, to protect my mental health. I guess just angry that my daughter also appears to now be a target. My siblings aren’t targets, although used to suffer like me over the years. I think they’re just happy she’s leaving them alone with her comments now (mostly).

Do “normal” parents find joy in their children even if they are completely different to them?

It’s hard to stand firm with what you enjoy as an adult when it’s been completely bypassed by your parents. I find myself getting joy out of something and then thinking that’s stupid why you so happy about this. The other sibling finds joy (or should I say attention) from the parents because they have identical things they all like. My things are given no attention. I’m guessing this isn’t normal? For example they go away and then the parents will go to exactly the same place a few months later and they all chat about it. We go away somewhere and they don’t ever go.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you. Unfortunately I need to be on social media for my business. Ditto phone number.

You're so right about the whole pillar of the community - ran the playgroup, volunteer work, positions in a church. And yet racist, opinionated, physically abusive to me and each other, used sex workers. I don't necessarily think they are specifically sending everyone in, but they are probably all "woe is me, I can't believe I'm dying and can't see her" comments that send people on the warpath.

I’ve posted in these threads using various usernames. I’m posting now to try and sort through how I feel and to see if anyone who has experienced similar who can offer some advice.

My alcoholic father died a couple of days ago. They have been so-called dry for years but I suspect they may have started drinking again before their death. They were warned previously not to drink anymore as they had cirrhosis and very little could kill them.

I have been relatively low contact with my parents for years, through necessity. My mother is a narcissist. She is also elderly and sick. She found my father dead, called emergency services, then called me. I went to help. And stayed there until this evening when another relative went to help in my place.

I am mostly struggling with navigating expectations. I don’t feel upset. I was shocked, of course, but that seemed to vanish relatively quickly. I was the one who dealt with emergency services and the people who took his body away. I have essentially been leading the aftermath since, logistically.

I don’t feel numb. I have had emotions throughout the process. So I don’t feel like I’m suppressing anything. Honestly, I just feel like I did my grieving years ago. There were some terrible situations, and at one point I was very depressed for a long period of time. I’ve since put myself through extensive therapy and worked really hard over a number of years to get to a place where I am thriving - in spite of them. Part of this has involved keeping things that matter to me away from them. They know very little about my life because prior to my deciding that, everything that mattered was ruined. It wasn’t an easy decision but it has proven time and again it was the right one.

There are some expectations I should be upset. Or that I will be soon. Another relative shares some similarities with some of my situation (but by no means all) and they’ve struggled snd continue to struggle as an adult. They essentially warned that this would be emotionally huge for me. I have nothing but empathy for their situation but…they aren’t me.

I did see his body. I felt this was right for me to do. And I felt that it wasn’t him (whilst knowing it was, of course) but just an empty shell. I should add that due to his health issues this was far from a clean death. And seeing the body aside, I dealt with the physical aftermath to spare my mother.

I don’t feel guilt either, I should add, that I don’t have the big feelings of upset. So it’s not that. I guess it’s expectations. Judgment. All of that is why I am mostly estranged. I’m exhausted. Mostly from all of the keeping up appearances of duty.

I suppose what I’m asking is: is this normal? Will the tsunami come? I’m okay if it does, but I also truly feel what this is, his passing, is simply the quiet closing of a door to a room I have not entered for a very long time, and had cleared of everything I owned.

Thanks for reading.

I'm so sorry about your Dad and the pain and suffering you've endured as his child.

I don't know what is ahead for you, but I really understand how you are feeling. I wanted to tell you that you seem incredibly emotionally healthy, intelligent and dignified in this complicated death. And I hope that you are proud of how you've become this person, and driven yourself into so much growth and success in your own life in spite of your suffering and the lack of care from your parents. You have so much strength, resilience and courage.

I relate to the pain of grieving a parent who is still alive. I know the courage that took and perhaps you don't have anything left in the tank my friend, for a parent that has already taken so much from you.

Whatever you are feeling is valid, healthy and allowed.

@DowntheDrainpipe my mum died 1 year ago I was NC. No I never felt sad, upset, just relieved, no tears, regrets, nothing, I didn't go to the funeral. My parents were alcoholics and were absolutely disgraceful, I grew up neglected, embarrassed and ashamed of them. Why would we be affected by their passing when they brought nothing positive to our lives and we had already walked away. Don't slip into the role of carer for your mum, get social services involved and if anyone has an opinion on that let them step up and do it. Life is about choices, they made theirs, they don't get to make yours.

Yes I had this with my mum. I was very enmeshed, felt I had to try and make her happy from a young age - being told “id kill myself if it wasn’t for you” is an excellent way to make your child place your needs before their own. I did all her admin, when my dad was ill and then when he died I did it all, funeral sorting the house , she then moved closer to me and again I did it all for her. I then dared to be annoyed about her dog who she hasn’t trained and is horrendous and got told not to come round to her house if I didn’t like it. I was furious which she doesn’t allow, I was never allowed to be angry. So ever since then she doesn’t really let me in the house, only contacts me when she wants something and does do everything she can not to ask me to do stuff she’s have just passed to me.

it’s made me really assess the whole thing and realise what an awful childhood I had so even though we see each other very infrequently I hate her so much I struggle to look at her. But the speed with which she dropped me as soon as i stepped out of line is mind boggling given I’d spent so much time supporting her. She just doesn’t care. I do read all the posts about the parents who harass them for contact hard to relate to and feel that she really must dislike me - I know it’s not about me it’s about her.

that was really rambling but yes I know how you feel, you want a bit of resistance dint you, to feel you meant something!